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02-03-2016, 10:33 PM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,009
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I received a very generic-looking parking infringement notice in the mail on Wednesday, 2nd March, 2016. A scan of this letter is attached to the end of this email (with my personal details removed). You are most welcome to forward this email and/or attachment to anyone you wish. The text read as follows: “You have been nominated as the driver/owner of vehicle TAXI372 . On the 01-08-2015 at 19:36 the vehicle was parked at PER086 - Seddon Street and this vehicle was issued with a parking breach notice numbered 100385469 . This notice was placed on your vehicle at the time of issue by Parking Enforcement Services. This Notice is now Overdue and we require payment within 20 days. The outstanding amount is $65.00. Failure to pay the overdue amount within 20 days will result in further recovery action at additional cost to you. Additionally, dependant on state law, your vehicle may be clamped and or towed if it appears in any of our clients' car parks. Yours faithfully, Parking Enforcement Service” This is a taxi of mine that is driven by different drivers at different times - I don't drive that car at all. That particular driver has since left Australia. Some observations: - From the time of the offence to the date on the letter is 212 days (ie seven months). This is extremely excessive. In this particular case the driver has since left Australia and returned to his home country. This time delay will also affect people who have bought a car since the time of any alleged offence. - There is no signature or name of any individual person to contact. - There is no provision on the letter to nominate any other driver. - There is almost no information about the alleged offence. Just a street name - no suburb, car park or photographic details of any kind. There are multiple streets in Perth and various country towns with the same street names. This letter doesn’t even narrow it down to any particular city or town. - There is no mention of any legislation or legally binding regulation (eg parking by-laws). - There is no mention of the actual company name, Wilson Parking. A search for the ABN reveals that name (ABN 67 052 475 911). Link: http://www.abr.business.gov.au/Searc...xt=67052475911 - There is no office or business physical address listed on the letter. - I rang the number provided - 1300 306 933 and selected 2 to “appeal an infringement”. This resulted in an audio loop that kept repeating itself. I rang again and selected a different option. This put me through to the commercial office. The person that I spoke with was extremely unhelpful, and was unable to put me through to anyone who could assist. Calling the number again and selecting option 1 once again put me in a repeated audio loop, with no option to speak to a live person. A fourth phone call eventually got me speaking with a live person, who made it clear that if they could not recover the money from the driver then I would have to pay the fine. - I asked the person what legislation this is operating under. She refused to speak any further and when I kept repeating this question she hung up on me. - The actual driver left Australia in December, three months after the alleged office. If there had not been such a delay in receiving the infringement then it could have been referred to him at the time. The Wilson Parking person had no regard for this, and insisted that I must pay the fine. - The only option that was given to appeal the fine was to go to a post office, get a statutory declaration form, complete it and post it in. This involves considerable time. Appeals are not considered by phone or email. - I still don’t know how Wilson Parking got my personal details. The Wilson Parking person claimed that they get this information through a series of court processes, but was very vague in her explanation. - This vehicle is a taxi. The Wilson Parking person said something on the phone about the car being parked in a disabled bay. If so, then it is possible that the taxi was involved in the transportation of a disabled person, which is very common for taxis. - There is the claim that the vehicle will be subjected to wheel clamping or towing in the future. Besides once again not specifying any relevant legislation, this will result in future drivers and owners of this car to suffer consequences for something that they had absolutely nothing to do with. - Basically, this letter is an attempt at bullying people into paying money for alleged offences that may not even have occurred. There is no regard at all for penalising a person who may have committed an alleged offence - it is purely about extorting money from potentially innocent people. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Something else: There is the option to appeal this via their web site. However, included in their terms and conditions disclaimer is the following: "Wilson Parking’s Privacy and Disclaimer The primary purpose of collecting any relevant personal information is to be able to provide you with our goods and services. Names and addresses of our customers may also be provided to a mailing house to mail account statements to each customer, and to debt collection agencies to collect outstanding debts. We may also use or disclose personal information for other purposes such as helping us to identify products and services that may interest you." Whoa, hang on there. Wilson Parking retains the right to use, and sell, personal information for basically any reason in the future? I have elected to not proceed with giving Wilson Parking this permission via their web site, and have emailed them directly instead. However, from what I've seen on various web site forums, Wilson Parking a) take considerable time to respond, and b) basically state that someone has to pay some money, and that they'll hold the vehicle owner responsible no matter what evidence is supplied. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How the bloody hell are we letting this sort of activity go on? Why is this commercial blackmail being permitted? Anyone else got any Wilson Parking experiences? What happened? Did you pay? Not pay?
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02-03-2016, 10:44 PM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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I had a few parking fines that i refused to pay, it ended up being referred to SPER with an added administration cost.
Last edited by GS608; 02-03-2016 at 11:04 PM. |
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02-03-2016, 10:50 PM | #3 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
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You're almost screwed as it will be assumed that as you own the Taxi you'll be responsible for the drivers parking fines; but see https://sites.google.com/site/unfair...ement-services
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regards Blue |
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02-03-2016, 11:03 PM | #4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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Interesting site..
Quote:
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02-03-2016, 11:04 PM | #5 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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You stuffed up by making contact with them. You should have filed it in the flushing filing cabinet. Companies like these (CarePark spring to mind) rely on the fact that 10% of these "fines" are paid. They do this by making their useless notices look like fines. If they send threatening letters, keep sending them to the crapper, even if they threaten legal action. For them to "recover" the $65, they would have to spend thousands on lawyers.
Last edited by Trump; 02-03-2016 at 11:12 PM. |
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02-03-2016, 11:22 PM | #7 | ||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,480
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Law Enforcement. No council, no popo, no govt, no fine.
Details of the exact infringement must be disclosed, or it never happened. |
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02-03-2016, 11:24 PM | #8 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 137
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"Scam !"
I think you may have misspelt the word scam my friend, you need to substitute the 'a' for a 'u'. |
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02-03-2016, 11:26 PM | #9 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,660
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Contact your local state consumer affairs department, they will advise you of your rights to this fine.
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03-03-2016, 12:40 AM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,338
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I am guessing it has taken so long to send you the letter because they went to court to get your details. I would think it would be the same system as insurance companies use to get details of third parties when they only have the rego. It can take months for details to come back.
Also checked the BPay biller code and it's an actual company so it's not a scam letter. Not sure if you seen this but have a read. http://www.gpforums.com.au/threads/5...-Parking)-fine |
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03-03-2016, 12:42 AM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Topend of Oz since 1980
Posts: 5,299
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Up until a few weeks ago, Wilson parking had the contract for the Royal Darwin Hospital Car Park. The local Government was happy tillWilson put through a request for the private details of around 10,000 people via the Motor Vehicle Registry. The boss there said yes, but as soon as it became known at Parliament House, Legislation was rushed through banning Wilson from accessing the MVR records. The local Government then paid out Wilson to end the contract.
Cheers Vinny
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03-03-2016, 07:15 AM | #12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 584
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These private parking breaches are not enforceable by SPER, SDRO or any other government agency. The best process is to ignore the notices. You will get letters from a "Lawyer" threatening court action. Still ignore it. The parking breach is between the parking operator and the driver, not the owner. If you don't identify the driver there is nothing they can do. Plenty of threads on other forums around these private parking threats. Asfor clamping or towing, that depends on the laws in your state. NSW for example clamping and/or towing is illegal. ACT clamping is legal, not sure about towing. Other states just search away.
Now that you have made contact with them, expect an avalanche of threatening letters |
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03-03-2016, 07:32 AM | #13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
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A local solicitor made local headlines in our newspaper when he stated that car park fines like this have no legal standing and to not pay them, my daughter got booked at the local hospital car park that is run by a contractor, she didn't pay it, she got lots of letters including a 'solicitors' letter, she trashed the lot and guess what - NOTHING HAPPENED!!!!
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03-03-2016, 08:03 AM | #14 | ||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
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You need to sit down and have a read of this thread.
http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/forum/v...php?f=30&t=538 I copied the most relevent piece of info. If you receive a letter from a private parking company which demands payment of any amount because you are the registered operator of a vehicle that was allegedly parked in a private car park, all you have to to do is ignore the letter and every other letter you get (including all demands and threats made to you by lawyers or debt collectors, especially those that threaten you with court action or penalties). They will eventually go away without taking you to court because they know full well that they have no legitimate claim against the registered operator of the motor vehicle. I've done exactly this when my wife got a ticket from CarePark. She started panicking when "lawyers" letters started showing up. Eventually they just stopped.
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2024 Ford Ranger Wildtrak V6 w/PP 2012 WK2 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD Last edited by Matty4; 03-03-2016 at 08:05 AM. Reason: added info |
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03-03-2016, 08:32 AM | #15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,548
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I got one of those for not having paid the fee what had happened the ticket fell off the dashboard when I shut the door.
The person that issued the claytons fine had not changed the location from the previous car park where he had been doing his rounds so I just ignored it. |
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03-03-2016, 09:01 AM | #16 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 259
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From the various replies here it seems Wilson or any other parking firm can't do anything. But as also said, maybe check with Consumer Affairs to be sure for your own circumstances.
Big companies trying to stand over the little guy ***** me to tears. |
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03-03-2016, 10:15 AM | #17 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 638
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they might not have a the power to fine you, but is it possible for them to put a bad mark on your credit rating as an unpaid debt?
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03-03-2016, 10:17 AM | #18 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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They can't do that as they have no contract.
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03-03-2016, 10:34 AM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Couple of years old now (so not sure if anything has changed) but the Checkout (Chaser) guys looked at private parking fines and agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw3fWb61wgQ |
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03-03-2016, 01:03 PM | #20 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
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Quote:
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regards Blue |
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03-03-2016, 01:39 PM | #21 | ||
Former BTIKD
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
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I think he can. In WA it's the WA Department of Commerce.
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03-03-2016, 02:02 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,206
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My daughter got one at 2am in a Wilsons car park in my car, didn't pay it, got the letters from this same company, I sent them a letter saying I won't be paying it as I wasn't the driver. They have no legal recourse, they can't take me to Court, they can't suspend my license. They will keep sending letters, just keep putting them in the bin. If they could take legal action they would have by now, it's all just a BLUFF.
What get's me is how did they get my personal details to send me a letter, licensing must have given it to them which means any private company can do the same.
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jaydee351 4DV8 |
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03-03-2016, 03:33 PM | #23 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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Quote:
If these companies had a brain, they would install access control (boom gates), get the money at the point of access and not have to bother with underhanded crap like this. That though would require a social conscience and being a good corporate citizen, something they lack. |
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03-03-2016, 04:35 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,338
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Quote:
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03-03-2016, 04:39 PM | #25 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Watch the youtube video. They are not legally allowed to fine you under the law. Only the government can do it.
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Daniel |
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03-03-2016, 05:37 PM | #26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,434
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Why do they bother going through the courts to get your personal details if they can't legally fine you? More worryingly why would the courts allow access to your personal details if they have no legal ground to stand on? Seems weird to me.
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03-03-2016, 08:42 PM | #27 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
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Quote:
Quote:
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regards Blue |
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03-03-2016, 09:50 PM | #28 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
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Quote:
Fines, Penalties and Infringement Notices Enforcement Act 1994 Quote:
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regards Blue |
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03-03-2016, 11:23 PM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 584
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At an openair wilsons run carpark in Civic ACT they have signs up everywhere about clamping and towing and late last year they added signs about only parking in marked bays or that would be a fee. On that day they had a wilsons guy running around warning off drivers, me included. I had words with him to the effect that he legally can't do sqat and he can't use the word fine or penalty notice. I pointed out rather forcefully that it is a breach of contract not a penalty. AS I walked out of the carpark I had a few more words with him.
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04-03-2016, 06:19 AM | #30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
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Quote:
They can't take you to court, there is no 'law' broken, they have NO legislative power under the law for 'road' matters, only the police and road authorities do, local councils have 'bylaws' which are legal standing, a privately run car park has no legal standing They try to get you on 'breach of contract', it would cost about 15 times more to take it to court that the fine is worth, they rely on the majority to pay, not the minority who won't
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