Let’s Have A Wilson Parking Thread

[Phildo]

I received a very generic-looking parking infringement notice in the mail on Wednesday, 2nd March, 2016. A scan of this letter is attached to the end of this email (with my personal details removed). You are most welcome to forward this email and/or attachment to anyone you wish.

The text read as follows:
“You have been nominated as the driver/owner of vehicle TAXI372 . On the 01-08-2015 at 19:36 the vehicle was parked at PER086 - Seddon Street and this vehicle was issued with a parking breach notice numbered 100385469 . This notice was placed on your vehicle at the time of issue by Parking Enforcement Services.

This Notice is now Overdue and we require payment within 20 days. The outstanding amount is $65.00.

Failure to pay the overdue amount within 20 days will result in further recovery action at additional cost to you. Additionally, dependant on state law, your vehicle may be clamped and or towed if it appears in any of our clients' car parks.

Yours faithfully,
Parking Enforcement Service”

This is a taxi of mine that is driven by different drivers at different times - I don't drive that car at all. That particular driver has since left Australia.

Some observations:

- From the time of the offence to the date on the letter is 212 days (ie seven months). This is extremely excessive. In this particular case the driver has since left Australia and returned to his home country. This time delay will also affect people who have bought a car since the time of any alleged offence.

- There is no signature or name of any individual person to contact.

- There is no provision on the letter to nominate any other driver.

- There is almost no information about the alleged offence. Just a street name - no suburb, car park or photographic details of any kind. There are multiple streets in Perth and various country towns with the same street names. This letter doesn’t even narrow it down to any particular city or town.

- There is no mention of any legislation or legally binding regulation (eg parking by-laws).

- There is no mention of the actual company name, Wilson Parking. A search for the ABN reveals that name (ABN 67 052 475 911).
Link: http://www.abr.business.gov.au/Searc...xt=67052475911

- There is no office or business physical address listed on the letter.

- I rang the number provided - 1300 306 933 and selected 2 to “appeal an infringement”. This resulted in an audio loop that kept repeating itself. I rang again and selected a different option. This put me through to the commercial office. The person that I spoke with was extremely unhelpful, and was unable to put me through to anyone who could assist. Calling the number again and selecting option 1 once again put me in a repeated audio loop, with no option to speak to a live person. A fourth phone call eventually got me speaking with a live person, who made it clear that if they could not recover the money from the driver then I would have to pay the fine.

- I asked the person what legislation this is operating under. She refused to speak any further and when I kept repeating this question she hung up on me.

- The actual driver left Australia in December, three months after the alleged office. If there had not been such a delay in receiving the infringement then it could have been referred to him at the time. The Wilson Parking person had no regard for this, and insisted that I must pay the fine.

- The only option that was given to appeal the fine was to go to a post office, get a statutory declaration form, complete it and post it in. This involves considerable time. Appeals are not considered by phone or email.

- I still don’t know how Wilson Parking got my personal details. The Wilson Parking person claimed that they get this information through a series of court processes, but was very vague in her explanation.

- This vehicle is a taxi. The Wilson Parking person said something on the phone about the car being parked in a disabled bay. If so, then it is possible that the taxi was involved in the transportation of a disabled person, which is very common for taxis.

- There is the claim that the vehicle will be subjected to wheel clamping or towing in the future. Besides once again not specifying any relevant legislation, this will result in future drivers and owners of this car to suffer consequences for something that they had absolutely nothing to do with.

- Basically, this letter is an attempt at bullying people into paying money for alleged offences that may not even have occurred. There is no regard at all for penalising a person who may have committed an alleged offence - it is purely about extorting money from potentially innocent people.
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Something else: There is the option to appeal this via their web site. However, included in their terms and conditions disclaimer is the following:

"Wilson Parking’s Privacy and Disclaimer

The primary purpose of collecting any relevant personal information is to be able to provide you with our goods and services. Names and addresses of our customers may also be provided to a mailing house to mail account statements to each customer, and to debt collection agencies to collect outstanding debts.

We may also use or disclose personal information for other purposes such as helping us to identify products and services that may interest you."

Whoa, hang on there. Wilson Parking retains the right to use, and sell, personal information for basically any reason in the future?

I have elected to not proceed with giving Wilson Parking this permission via their web site, and have emailed them directly instead. However, from what I've seen on various web site forums, Wilson Parking a) take considerable time to respond, and b) basically state that someone has to pay some money, and that they'll hold the vehicle owner responsible no matter what evidence is supplied.
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How the bloody hell are we letting this sort of activity go on? Why is this commercial blackmail being permitted?

Anyone else got any Wilson Parking experiences? What happened? Did you pay? Not pay?

[GS608]

I had a few parking fines that i refused to pay, it ended up being referred to SPER with an added administration cost.

[aussiblue]

You're almost screwed as it will be assumed that as you own the Taxi you'll be responsible for the drivers parking fines; but see https://sites.google.com/site/unfair...ement-services

[GS608]

Interesting site..

Wilson Parking fees threat not legal

Gareth Parker reported in the West Australian on September 3, 2010. The shadnow attorney-general John Quigley say motorists are not under a legal obligation to pay $60 parking fines issued by Wilson Parking.

Wilson Parking had requested the Western Australian Government had over the details of 10,000 WA motorists. Mr Mr Quigley said Wilson relied on "bluff and bluster" to enforce the breach notices and that Wilson Parkikng "haven't got the power to fine people, they are not a government authority".

Mr Quigley went on to say that "If (Wilson) have imposed a $50 or $100 fine and put it on someone's windshield, that's not what they can recover in court. What they've lost under contract is the parking fee (of $5 or $10".

Wilson Parking refused to answer questions about the 20 motor vehicle owners whose details it obtained last month through a WA Supreme Court order, and its fresh demand that the Government hand over the details of 10,000 motorists it says have not paid parking notices. Wilson obtained the details of the 20 motorists under a Supreme Court rule that allows "discovery" of certain information in connection with the start of legal proceedings. Wilson yesterday refused to say if it planned to sue the 20 motorists.

Transport Minister Simon O'Brien said it was the Government's understanding that the 20 motorists' details could be used by Wilson only in connection with the start of court proceedings.

Wilson Parking had said in media statements that it wanted the information to send their customers "reminder letters". Wilson Parking chief Mr Craig Smith said: "Wilson will not comment on their legal strategy."

[Trump]

You stuffed up by making contact with them. You should have filed it in the flushing filing cabinet. Companies like these (CarePark spring to mind) rely on the fact that 10% of these "fines" are paid. They do this by making their useless notices look like fines. If they send threatening letters, keep sending them to the crapper, even if they threaten legal action. For them to "recover" the $65, they would have to spend thousands on lawyers.

[csv8]

Scam !

[marty351]

Law Enforcement. No council, no popo, no govt, no fine.
Details of the exact infringement must be disclosed, or it never happened.

[tonys6550]

"Scam !"

I think you may have misspelt the word scam my friend, you need to substitute the 'a' for a 'u'.

[Itsme]

Contact your local state consumer affairs department, they will advise you of your rights to this fine.

[xisled]

I am guessing it has taken so long to send you the letter because they went to court to get your details. I would think it would be the same system as insurance companies use to get details of third parties when they only have the rego. It can take months for details to come back.

Also checked the BPay biller code and it's an actual company so it's not a scam letter.

Not sure if you seen this but have a read.

http://www.gpforums.com.au/threads/5...-Parking)-fine

[Vincenzo]

Up until a few weeks ago, Wilson parking had the contract for the Royal Darwin Hospital Car Park. The local Government was happy tillWilson put through a request for the private details of around 10,000 people via the Motor Vehicle Registry. The boss there said yes, but as soon as it became known at Parliament House, Legislation was rushed through banning Wilson from accessing the MVR records. The local Government then paid out Wilson to end the contract.

Cheers Vinny

[devilcv8]

These private parking breaches are not enforceable by SPER, SDRO or any other government agency. The best process is to ignore the notices. You will get letters from a "Lawyer" threatening court action. Still ignore it. The parking breach is between the parking operator and the driver, not the owner. If you don't identify the driver there is nothing they can do. Plenty of threads on other forums around these private parking threats. Asfor clamping or towing, that depends on the laws in your state. NSW for example clamping and/or towing is illegal. ACT clamping is legal, not sure about towing. Other states just search away.
Now that you have made contact with them, expect an avalanche of threatening letters

[Trevor 57]

A local solicitor made local headlines in our newspaper when he stated that car park fines like this have no legal standing and to not pay them, my daughter got booked at the local hospital car park that is run by a contractor, she didn't pay it, she got lots of letters including a 'solicitors' letter, she trashed the lot and guess what - NOTHING HAPPENED!!!!

[Matty4]

You need to sit down and have a read of this thread.
http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/forum/v...php?f=30&t=538

I copied the most relevent piece of info.

If you receive a letter from a private parking company which demands payment of any amount because you are the registered operator of a vehicle that was allegedly parked in a private car park, all you have to to do is ignore the letter and every other letter you get (including all demands and threats made to you by lawyers or debt collectors, especially those that threaten you with court action or penalties). They will eventually go away without taking you to court because they know full well that they have no legitimate claim against the registered operator of the motor vehicle.

I've done exactly this when my wife got a ticket from CarePark. She started panicking when "lawyers" letters started showing up.
Eventually they just stopped.

[EBSXR6]

I got one of those for not having paid the fee what had happened the ticket fell off the dashboard when I shut the door.

The person that issued the claytons fine had not changed the location from the previous car park where he had been doing his rounds so I just ignored it.

[The Snout]

From the various replies here it seems Wilson or any other parking firm can't do anything. But as also said, maybe check with Consumer Affairs to be sure for your own circumstances.

Big companies trying to stand over the little guy ***** me to tears.

[falcon_bandit]

they might not have a the power to fine you, but is it possible for them to put a bad mark on your credit rating as an unpaid debt?

[Trump]

They can't do that as they have no contract.

[Iggle Piggle]

Couple of years old now (so not sure if anything has changed) but the Checkout (Chaser) guys looked at private parking fines and agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw3fWb61wgQ

[aussiblue]

Contact your local state consumer affairs department, they will advise you of your rights to this fine.

If this is in relation to a business (Taxi) I don't think he will be considered a consumer and get access to free advice.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

If this is in relation to a business (Taxi) I don't think he will be considered a consumer and get access to free advice.

I think he can. In WA it's the WA Department of Commerce.

[jaydee]

My daughter got one at 2am in a Wilsons car park in my car, didn't pay it, got the letters from this same company, I sent them a letter saying I won't be paying it as I wasn't the driver. They have no legal recourse, they can't take me to Court, they can't suspend my license. They will keep sending letters, just keep putting them in the bin. If they could take legal action they would have by now, it's all just a BLUFF.

What get's me is how did they get my personal details to send me a letter, licensing must have given it to them which means any private company can do the same.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by jaydee

What get's me is how did they get my personal details to send me a letter, licensing must have given it to them which means any private company can do the same.

This. Despite the bleatings of the various state govco's, the respective roads authorities almost willingly hand over the details to these extortionists.

If these companies had a brain, they would install access control (boom gates), get the money at the point of access and not have to bother with underhanded crap like this. That though would require a social conscience and being a good corporate citizen, something they lack.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

This. Despite the bleatings of the various state govco's, the respective roads authorities almost willingly hand over the details to these extortionists.

If these companies had a brain, they would install access control (boom gates), get the money at the point of access and not have to bother with underhanded crap like this. That though would require a social conscience and being a good corporate citizen, something they lack.

They need to go through the court system to get the details which they legally can. That is why it takes so long to get a letter. I am guessing they use the same system as an insurance does to get third party details. Used to send these requests off to the solicitor when I was working in claims.

[vztrt]

Watch the youtube video. They are not legally allowed to fine you under the law. Only the government can do it.

[MITCHAY]

Why do they bother going through the courts to get your personal details if they can't legally fine you? More worryingly why would the courts allow access to your personal details if they have no legal ground to stand on? Seems weird to me.

[aussiblue]

I think he can. In WA it's the WA Department of Commerce

I know it's the Department of Commerce, but see the Department of Commerce's Site: http://forms.commerce.wa.gov.au/cons...tion/complaint

Consumer Protection mostly handles complaints about goods or services intended for personal use. There are times when you can still make a complaint if you used goods or services for business purposes, including:

•breach of legislation we administer such as the Australian Consumer Law;


•a Statutory Warranty complaint under the Motor Vehicle Dealers Act 1973;


•the goods or services were used by a not-for-profit organisation; or


•the goods and/or services were used by a farmer (primary producer).


In these instances we will let you know what we can do about the issue. There are some disputes where the Small Business Development Corporation may be able to help.

[aussiblue]

as for clamping or towing, that depends on the laws in your state. NSW for example clamping and/or towing is illegal. ACT clamping is legal, not sure about towing.

Clamping is still legal in WA; see http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation..._homepage.html
Fines, Penalties and Infringement Notices Enforcement Act 1994

Immobilisation of vehicles
(1) A warrant issued in respect of a debtor entitles the Sheriff to immobilise one or more vehicles licensed in the name of the debtor using —
(a) one or more wheel clamps; or
(b) another means prescribed by the regulations.
2) A vehicle must not be immobilised under a warrant at a particular place unless the Sheriff is satisfied that immobilising the vehicle at that place will not —
(a) cause the vehicle to be parked in contravention of a written law; or
(b) cause undue inconvenience to persons other than the debtor.
(3) A vehicle must not be immobilised under a warrant if, at the time of the immobilisation —
(a) the number plates of the vehicle have been removed in accordance with section 95F; and
(b) the number plates have not been returned to the debtor.
(4) If the Sheriff immobilises a vehicle under a warrant, the Sheriff must affix to the vehicle a notice that complies with subsection (5).
(5) A notice affixed to a vehicle under subsection (4) must include at least the following information —
(a) that a warrant has been issued in respect of the holder of the vehicle licence; and
(b) the time at which the vehicle was immobilised; and
(c) that it is an offence to remove the notice while the vehicle remains immobilised under a warrant; and
(d) information about what the debtor may do to have the immobilisation of the vehicle removed; and
(e) that the Sheriff may take further enforcement action against the debtor if the debtor does not pay the amount owed under the warrant and any enforcement fees; and
(f) any other information prescribed by the regulations.
(6) A notice under subsection (4) may be in 2 parts.

[devilcv8]

At an openair wilsons run carpark in Civic ACT they have signs up everywhere about clamping and towing and late last year they added signs about only parking in marked bays or that would be a fee. On that day they had a wilsons guy running around warning off drivers, me included. I had words with him to the effect that he legally can't do sqat and he can't use the word fine or penalty notice. I pointed out rather forcefully that it is a breach of contract not a penalty. AS I walked out of the carpark I had a few more words with him.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Why do they bother going through the courts to get your personal details if they can't legally fine you? More worryingly why would the courts allow access to your personal details if they have no legal ground to stand on? Seems weird to me.

the courts don't give them access to your details, they must get them through the roads authority, like Vicroads or RMS somehow

They can't take you to court, there is no 'law' broken, they have NO legislative power under the law for 'road' matters, only the police and road authorities do, local councils have 'bylaws' which are legal standing, a privately run car park has no legal standing

They try to get you on 'breach of contract', it would cost about 15 times more to take it to court that the fine is worth, they rely on the majority to pay, not the minority who won't