Supercharging Q's

ALS008 · 09-07-2007, 08:36 PM

Hey Chris,

As you know ive been doing some snooping in regards to supercharging my Boss. I was wondering if you could shed some light on the pro's and cons of which way to go. I know your R&D on the Kenne Bell PD kit is awesome and probably the best thing money can buy on the market.

But with regards to $$$ V's KW's, whats the difference with going PD top mount or centrifugal Vortec.

Ive seen you have tuned two cars in which are posted the the Aussie Car section. The Orange XR8 sedan with the non-intercooled reverse mount vortec, and the latest car added a XR8 ute with your Top-mount KB non-intercooled. Both these cars make around the 300rwkw, which im asuming have the same basic mods and a tune by youself. The KB package comes in around the $10k and the Vortec at $5k. Where is the extra $5k come from with the KB kit when the end result on a stock motor will be limited to around 300rwkw.

If you could post up dyno sheets of the two types of blowers on preferably a 260 Boss motor. What are the differences in power delivery and drivablity between the two.

Cheers Mate,

Love to hear you thoughts

XRQTOR · 09-07-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALS008

Hey Chris,

As you know ive been doing some snooping in regards to supercharging my Boss. I was wondering if you could shed some light on the pro's and cons of which way to go. I know your R&D on the Kenne Bell PD kit is awesome and probably the best thing money can buy on the market.

But with regards to $$$ V's KW's, whats the difference with going PD top mount or centrifugal Vortec.

Ive seen you have tuned two cars in which are posted the the Aussie Car section. The Orange XR8 sedan with the non-intercooled reverse mount vortec, and the latest car added a XR8 ute with your Top-mount KB non-intercooled. Both these cars make around the 300rwkw, which im asuming have the same basic mods and a tune by youself. The KB package comes in around the $10k and the Vortec at $5k. Where is the extra $5k come from with the KB kit when the end result on a stock motor will be limited to around 300rwkw.

If you could post up dyno sheets of the two types of blowers on preferably a 260 Boss motor. What are the differences in power delivery and drivablity between the two.

Cheers Mate,

Love to hear you thoughts

More power & more torque from the Kenne Bell unit in the lower rpm range, leaves open the option to intercool and run up to 6oorwkw as opposed to the little vortech running out of puff at around 4oorwkw.

If you can spare the extra coin go with the KB kit, if i had my time again i'd buy a KB kit.

05_ENFORCER · 10-07-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALS008

Hey Chris,

As you know ive been doing some snooping in regards to supercharging my Boss. I was wondering if you could shed some light on the pro's and cons of which way to go. I know your R&D on the Kenne Bell PD kit is awesome and probably the best thing money can buy on the market.

But with regards to $$$ V's KW's, whats the difference with going PD top mount or centrifugal Vortec.

Ive seen you have tuned two cars in which are posted the the Aussie Car section. The Orange XR8 sedan with the non-intercooled reverse mount vortec, and the latest car added a XR8 ute with your Top-mount KB non-intercooled. Both these cars make around the 300rwkw, which im asuming have the same basic mods and a tune by youself. The KB package comes in around the $10k and the Vortec at $5k. Where is the extra $5k come from with the KB kit when the end result on a stock motor will be limited to around 300rwkw.

If you could post up dyno sheets of the two types of blowers on preferably a 260 Boss motor. What are the differences in power delivery and drivablity between the two.

Cheers Mate,

Love to hear you thoughts

Try this link also.
But i am a little biased on this one.

:
BPT http://www.norcom.net.au/~bpt/Superc...4-eb-au-v8.htm
And mine http://www.norcom.net.au/~bpt/BA%20X...nt%20view1.JPG
Craig.

Elmo · 10-07-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05_ENFORCER

Try this link also.
But i am a little biased on this one.

:
BPT http://www.norcom.net.au/~bpt/Superc...4-eb-au-v8.htm
And mine http://www.norcom.net.au/~bpt/BA%20X...nt%20view1.JPG
Craig.

I think you'll find he'll use Chris as they are both in melbourne!

The best thing I think you can do mate is give him a call, or go in there you've dealt with him before so you know he wont in your pocket about it.

**Chris** · 10-07-2007, 08:48 AM

Al,

there is really no comparison between a centrifugal supercharger and a top mount twinscrew supercharger.

300rwkw from a centrifugal is almost identical in the car to 260-280 from a twinscrew.

My kit non intercooled is $10k drive in drive out - that price includes Bosch injectors, 2 bar map sensor and wiring, labour and tuning. Im pretty sure if you call scotty @ capa, you will find that the $5000 vortech comes without

Installation allow $550
Injectors allow $750
2bar map sensor $145
tuning $995

This extra odd 2500 will see you at $7500. We have fitted quite a few of these vortech units, and they will all require the above extras. I priced my kit in such a fashion so it covers everything.

As leigh mentioned above, the Bluepower unit is upgradeable to power and torque levels that are well beyond the vortech, making resale easy. The key to spending money on your car is to make it feasable as possible.

We can jack out blower up out of the bonnet with an air/dry ice cooler, we can leave it under for the low key approach. It can be aggressive, it can be slowed down to make it surprisingly driveable.

If you like, drop in and i will show you (with the clients permission) a couple of comparison dyno sheets.

Hope this squares it up for you - any further q's, drop me a line.

Chris

Jason50 · 10-07-2007, 03:53 PM

Just want to add my 2 cents here.

I looked at many dyno sheets for N/A vs Vortec supercahared and soon came to the conclusion that I was just never going to get that gains I wanted below 3500RPM which is where 95% of my driving is done.

Now, with the Bluwpower Kenne Bell kit I have a ruler flat torque curve. This makes the car a breeze to drive without ever having to wait for the revs to pick up for the power to come on. It has taken my car from somewhat of a pain in the *** to not wanting to get out of it at the end of a trip. I just can't describe how happy I am with it. :evil3:

Am happy to put up the dyno sheet if people want to see it.

XRQTOR · 10-07-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason50

Just want to add my 2 cents here.

I looked at many dyno sheets for N/A vs Vortec supercahared and soon came to the conclusion that I was just never going to get that gains I wanted below 3500RPM which is where 95% of my driving is done.

Now, with the Bluwpower Kenne Bell kit I have a ruler flat torque curve. This makes the car a breeze to drive without ever having to wait for the revs to pick up for the power to come on. It has taken my car from somewhat of a pain in the *** to not wanting to get out of it at the end of a trip. I just can't describe how happy I am with it. :evil3:

Am happy to put up the dyno sheet if people want to see it.

Post it up mate

Jason50 · 10-07-2007, 04:26 PM

OK , here are the dyno sheets. first one is for boost and power. The second is what the car drove into blue power with and how it came out.

Mods are just oil pump gears and Difilipo big boy system.

The tune is pretty safe for now. Later when I get the fuel pump upgraded I want to add another PSI or two of boost and see how it goes.

Craig · 10-07-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Al,

there is really no comparison between a centrifugal supercharger and a top mount twinscrew supercharger.

300rwkw from a centrifugal is almost identical in the car to 260-280 from a twinscrew.

My kit non intercooled is $10k drive in drive out - that price includes Bosch injectors, 2 bar map sensor and wiring, labour and tuning. Im pretty sure if you call scotty @ capa, you will find that the $5000 vortech comes without

Installation allow $550
Injectors allow $750
2bar map sensor $145
tuning $995

This extra odd 2500 will see you at $7500. We have fitted quite a few of these vortech units, and they will all require the above extras. I priced my kit in such a fashion so it covers everything.

Chris

And ease of fitment of the Blue Power is so much nicer (the swearing level is reduced tremendously) compared to the centrifugal unit.

The other BIG factor that i really like between the two different configurations is the instant response when the throttle is smashed. The BP unit is much quicker.

Both good units no problem there but as Chris said value for money and the ability to step up at any time is a real nice ACE up the sleeve.

But first Al i would suggest Oil Pump Gears.

Cheers Craig

ALS008 · 10-07-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig@ACE

And ease of fitment of the Blue Power is so much nicer (the swearing level is reduced tremendously) compared to the centrifugal unit.

The other BIG factor that i really like between the two different configurations is the instant response when the throttle is smashed. The BP unit is much quicker.

Both good units no problem there but as Chris said value for money and the ability to step up at any time is a real nice ACE up the sleeve.

But first Al i would suggest Oil Pump Gears.

Cheers Craig

Yes i know these still need to be done Craig. Some time in the near future i will give you a buzz to get them done at your shop.

Jason50 · 11-07-2007, 12:04 AM

if you compare this Vortec XR8

from this thread Here

To mine from a few posts up you can see mine has it up to about 140Kph which is around 4000RPM even though it makes over 80RWKW more than mine at the top end. After 4000RPM that other car suddenly wakes up and would leave me in the dust.

I am not trying to convince anyone mine is better or anything, just show the diff between PD and centficical blowers.

**Bluepower** · 11-07-2007, 08:19 AM

Jason,

hope the blower is keeping you "company" on those cool evenings! Say hi to the father in law for me. I think agro could be your future brother, i think he wants to be adopted lol.

You draw an interesting comparison, and for road usage, your setup is ideal. Just remember that your car CAN be upgraded at any time, and the results will start to frighten you.

Imagine your car was a manual? add 10-15rwkw
Imagine your car was a 290? again, add 10-15

so all of a sudden, we have a 330-340 rwkw pursuit with an average of 5psi.

Its nice to see such a good result on an auto 260 with only 5psi, typically the most difficult boss in the number producing game.

Jason50 · 11-07-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Jason,

hope the blower is keeping you "company" on those cool evenings! Say hi to the father in law for me. I think agro could be your future brother, i think he wants to be adopted lol.

You draw an interesting comparison, and for road usage, your setup is ideal. Just remember that your car CAN be upgraded at any time, and the results will start to frighten you.

Imagine your car was a manual? add 10-15rwkw
Imagine your car was a 290? again, add 10-15

so all of a sudden, we have a 330-340 rwkw pursuit with an average of 5psi.

Its nice to see such a good result on an auto 260 with only 5psi, typically the most difficult boss in the number producing game.

Hello Chris

:

The old bloke has not stopped talking about the car and what a great time he had stiring things up during our visit lol.

Still much more power to be had and you haven't mentioned 'intercooling' yet...

The cold nights certainly do make it boogie.

On another note, I had the transmission serviced and all was reported as good. I was worried about the box to start with, but then when I saw the torque curve of an XR6T with similar power to mine it hit me that the V8 is not so bad for the box. The T was making near 10,000N with nothing down low and nothing up high. That horrendous mid range torque must be why the Ts are frying the 4 speed autos. I'll take my flat curve anytime

WOLF · 11-07-2007, 03:35 PM

well done Jason50 you have a nice weapon there mate! Thats some meaty power/torque you have for an average of 5psi...nice for the street.
Just curious as to what people regard as a "safe" tune? Comparing yours to the vortech and some other of the turbo charts producing well over 35okw's, down low the KB easily matches for power and eclipses for torque! its pretty scary to think what the kit has to offer...great stuff!

**Bluepower** · 12-07-2007, 08:26 AM

Hey Rob, hope you weren't too injured from your snow exploits!!

The Boss motor is an easy motor to make power with when boost is involved. Tuning the Boss is critical in keeping the engine alive.

The spark table in particular is but one of the key elements that can literally make or break an engine.

It is an addictive thing when you see small changes in tune, and see big changes in power, to want to go further and "jump" on the tune, meaning to be a little more aggressive than you perhaps should.

A responsible tuner that knows his software and hardware will be able to recognise these points, and make the tune safe. There is only so much thickness on the deck surface of the stock piston, so too much heat will mean failure.

Having a stock bottom end in our Black ute is an example of what some conservative tuning will allow.

ALS008 · 12-07-2007, 07:25 PM

I still cant believe that the black ute is running a stock bottem end, with the addition of oil pump gears and BOOST to make well over 400rwkw.... its truley a testament to all the effort you put into your tuning.