A Badge Engineered XR8?

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 10:52 AM

With all this April 1 jocularity, I couldn't help thinking something that seems kinda obvious to me.

Why can't Ford just redbage the GS as an XR8, and sell it alongside the GS at the same price?

FPV still get the sale. Ford get the XR8 badge back. There's no need to spend money on anything other than removing the GS stickers and putting the Ford badges back on.

There's no stealing of sales since a 'GS' will essentially get sold anyway. Some buyers want Ford badges on. Some want FPV badges on. Both buyers would be happy and AT NO R&D COST TO FORD OR FPV. Some might say that either the GS or XR8 badges would become diluted. But I beg to differ - I think there'd be an improvement in total volume sold. The XR8 is the brand with the better recognition anyway.

I just can't see why this couldn't be done.

Lukeyson

**Polyal** · 01-04-2011, 10:56 AM

Cost.

I cant see people forking out the dosh for an XR8 @ 60k by the time its on road. There was an internal bun fight which I dont know the full story but I reckon Ford/FPV figured they could get away with doing stuff all if they slapped a FPV badge on it.

I agree, the XR8 brand is stronger than the GS, especially with the market they need to capture in the future, not the ones dying off.

SpoolMan · 01-04-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Why can't Ford just redbage the GS as an XR8, and sell it alongside the GS at the same price?

18 months ago we were all led to believe that was going to happen, although no GS just FPV doing the XR8.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:01 AM

When the BA XR8 came out in 2003 it was RRP 53k. And the GS is now RRP 54k.

If a GS sells at that price, why not an identical car with an XR8 badge on the side that has identical everything else?

Lukeyson

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:03 AM

FPV would just love that...

Would eat into GS sales...

The GS we have now shoudl have been XR8 at 50 kay, no if's, buts or maybes... Looking at carsales tho they are coming down in price!!

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:05 AM

Why would it eat into GS sales? With an XR8 badge on the side it still IS a GS sale. Why would FPV not like selling MORE of them?

Lukeyson

PHANTMXR6 · 01-04-2011, 11:08 AM

If someone was to 'badge engineer' an XR8 out of a GS, there'd be no difference than someone throwing FPV badges on a Falcon.

Only difference being that the owner would have paid a premium for his badged car.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Why would it eat into GS sales? With an XR8 badge on the side it still IS a GS sale. Why would FPV not like selling MORE of them?

Lukeyson

Because it would be a FORD badged product and not an FPV badged product, and since Ford set the pricing they would no doubt have it cheaper then the GS... It would affect FPV one way or another.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

When the BA XR8 came out in 2003 it was RRP 53k. And the GS is now RRP 54k.

If a GS sells at that price, why not an identical car with an XR8 badge on the side that has identical everything else?

Lukeyson

2003 BA XR8 AUTO RRP $51,050*
2011 FG GS AUTO RRP $56,990*

aussie muscle · 01-04-2011, 11:28 AM

The GS is over priced. bring it down a few thou and i might consider buying one.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:30 AM

That's the point. With the one car, you satisfy those that want FORD badges AND those that want FPV badges. And if there really has to be price differentiation, FPV can slap some racoon eyes on the GS. But I'm not talking about 'someone' doing it, I'm talking about Ford doing it.

What I'm hearing is that everyone thinks that the market perceives the XR8 as being cheaper than a GS.

Well, I see two options here.

(1) The die hards who want the XR8 to be cheaper could have their way, just like those that wanted a V8 XT but didn't buy one, and there will be NO XR8 at all. Just like now.

(2) You give a little bit of thought to this and see that with almost no outlay by Ford you could have an XR8 back in the game.

Lukeyson

prydey · 01-04-2011, 11:48 AM

whats the price of a ss? xr8 needs to compete with the competition price wise or there's no point.

**kypez** · 01-04-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

That's the point. With the one car, you satisfy those that want FORD badges AND those that want FPV badges. And if there really has to be price differentiation, FPV can slap some racoon eyes on the GS. But I'm not talking about 'someone' doing it, I'm talking about Ford doing it.

What I'm hearing is that everyone thinks that the market perceives the XR8 as being cheaper than a GS.

Well, I see two options here.

(1) The die hards who want the XR8 to be cheaper could have their way, just like those that wanted a V8 XT but didn't buy one, and there will be NO XR8 at all. Just like now.

(2) You give a little bit of thought to this and see that with almost no outlay by Ford you could have an XR8 back in the game.

Lukeyson

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

Powdered Toast Man · 01-04-2011, 12:03 PM

Why? Just buy a GS.

winovin · 01-04-2011, 12:06 PM

I really don't see the point of FPV as a separate brand, other than to copy Holden's branding. With the relatively low level of FPV sales, a large part of the FPV price premium goes toward marketing and other costs which are needlessly duplicative to those which Ford incurs.

I don't understand why Ford doesn't reintroduce a GT-HO model. The publicity generated would be huge, and that brand has value which is not being used. Although some aficionados would complain about the devaluation of the name, it would stimulate sales of other Falcon models.

**Polyal** · 01-04-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winovin

I really don't see the point of FPV as a separate brand, other than to copy Holden's branding. With the relatively low level of FPV sales, a large part of the FPV price premium goes toward marketing and other costs which are needlessly duplicative to those which Ford incurs.

I agree, I would not shed a tear if FPV was disbanded...I would only be annoyed because Ford cant seem to stabilize its performance channels.

The US Ford GT is branded as a Ford, not a SVT et al...IMO the GS should not exist as a FPV, it should be a Ford XR8 (with revised price) and FPV have the GT and F6..but I digress (only slightly).

That way more Miami's are moved and not to the determent of the GT or the FPV brand. It would be interesting to know if GS buyers are that tight on a budget or thought the GT wasn't worth the extra coin.

DanielXR8 · 01-04-2011, 02:24 PM

The GS we have now comes down the line with XR8 - GS option plastered on it, so Ford are under no illusions what a GS really is.

I think FPV looked at the development cost of Miami and the three years or so to recoup the money and went for the cheapest to build/highest profit car they could come up with and thats the current GS.

Its a nice car, but it is a base XR8 trying to sell at the old GT prices and its just not good enough. Either go for volume and sell the car as an XR8 in its current trim and high 40's price or put the value in and sell as FPV. Right now it has a foot in both camps and doesn't please a lot of people because of it.

I doubt FPV will get the sales they need to get their money back unless they do something to make the GS better value to the customer.

buggo · 01-04-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

I agree completly with this.
I know about the old GS's but they don't mean a thing to me really. An 'XR' does.
When I was younger my Dad would point out nice EL XR8's and AU1's with big bi-wing spoiler's and body kit. It probably doesn't mean much to the buying public but when i was 10 those spoilers were awesome and i wanted one bad. Maybe part of the reason I have an XR6 and not something that makes more economic sense like a Fiesta.
In 5 years when the 'GS' name is dropped again, it will have come and gone and not made an impact on anyone. It's departure I doubt will cause as much, if any, conversation as when XR8 left almost 2 years ago, and the topic is still being discussed...

I am saddened by the fact that I will never be able to buy myself a brand new XR8.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 02:55 PM

There was talk originally of FPV bringing the Focus RS out to Australia. But Ford Europe didn't want the Ford badges taken off, so it very nearly didn't make it here.

The point of this is that some people are proud of the Ford badge and want to retain it. Others want to rip it off and replace it with FPV badges. A shared GS/XR8 makes a lot of sense in increasing the number of people that you would satisfy.

At one point Ford were badge engineering Mazdas. And Nissans. And those from a whole other country let alone across the street. And now a bunch of people here are saying that badge engineering can't be done because it would 'eat away sales' - totally forgetting the value of increasing total sales. The Ford guys already have the service manuals and training, there's NOTHING left to do except satisfy more people.

Remember that Ford already have a product placed to compete on price with the SS Commodore - the XR6T. I mean, when the XR6T came out, did people complain because it wasn't the same price as the XR6? If the SS were ever to be supercharged from the factory, only then would I consider it a competitor to a shared XR8/GS. I'd imagine we'd see price differentiation then too.

Lukeyson

anto · 01-04-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

so you are someone that prefers Ghia to G6E then right ?

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

There is merit in what Luke is saying, although to make it a point of difference, the GS should score full FPV styling cues, front end etc.. and the current GS look becomes the XR8,..more of a povo pack.

**kypez** · 01-04-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

so you are someone that prefers Ghia to G6E then right ?

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

There is merit in what Luke is saying, although to make it a point of difference, the GS should score full FPV styling cues, front end etc.. and the current GS look becomes the XR8,..more of a povo pack.

Ghia is a luxury model and the GS/XR are sports models. Different models relating to different aspirations. So no, I dont care very much for the Ghia brand as I was never its target market. I am the target market for the XR/GS brands though.

Mistake or not, I'll be honest and say that I didnt know what the GS was and didnt bother researching it till the GS came out in BF. Truth is, a lot of people dont know the GS but there has been a culture created around the XR series (As buggo_GT mentioned, we grew up on this brand). I think the name also is good with Gen Y people as well. XR8 sounds much better to me than GS.

GT is timeless though.

I agree with your last part that the GS should get the full FPV treatment and the curved finished GS should come back down as a XR8. I bought my XR8 cause I didnt like the GT kit back in the day. Didnt like the squaring of the GT kit but loved the smoothness of the XR kit (to me at least).

**DJR-351** · 01-04-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

This......

Perko · 01-04-2011, 05:13 PM

Funny Luke that you bring this up. When I was looking at a GS ute when they first came out this is exactly what I was looking to do. Take the FPV badges off, throw the Ford badges on, and replace the rims with XR8 18" alloys (as I really like them). Yes I know that the 18's would have trouble potentially getting the power down, but this was going to be a sleeper. The only thing that stopped me is the replacement costs of the seats etc and the realisation that supercharging my BA was probably easier. Just now have to convince the boss about option 2.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 05:29 PM

I'm in the same boat. I'd consider buying a GS and put Ford/XR8 badging on it. The problem stems from it not being genuine which wrecks the idea. Not that I don't like customisation - far from it.

If WE can do it, surely Ford could do it and just sell it that way. Ford would just need to be honest about it.

Lukeyson

xisled · 01-04-2011, 05:30 PM

IMO If I was to buy a FPV GS, I would not want to buy a GS knowing that there is a car the same with Ford badges. FPV is meant to be the performance brand of Ford with a limited number of cars produced each year. If there was a Ford XR8 that was exactly the same as the FPV GS but with Ford badges, to me it would take a lot of the appeal away, when I would be looking to buy a car. I would probally end up buying a typhoon or XR6t.

Also to add, the GS would more than likely have a higher resale value due to the whole fact it is a FPV compared to an XR8 even tho it may be the exact same cars.

**Dave R** · 01-04-2011, 05:33 PM

I always wondered why the GS couldn't have been an FPV enhanced XR8, kind of like the tickford XR days.

kennyboy · 01-04-2011, 06:23 PM

Just thinking maybe they can't get the V8s to cover more sales - as everyone seems to be saying, they'd sell more if there was an XR8! It could also be they don't want to lose sales of I6 to the V8 - keeping ausiies in jobs?

flappist · 01-04-2011, 06:55 PM

Well instead of growing up on XR8s you should have bought one instead.

I suspect the main reason why there is no longer an XR8 is that Ford sold bugger all FG 5.4 XR8s.

Models that don't sell are deleted.

FPV however did sell quite a number of 5.4 GSs so it makes lots of sense to continue the one that is more successful.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Well instead of growing up on XR8s you should have bought one instead.

I suspect the main reason why there is no longer an XR8 is that Ford sold bugger all FG 5.4 XR8s.

Models that don't sell are deleted.

FPV however did sell quite a number of 5.4 GSs so it makes lots of sense to continue the one that is more successful.

They struggled with GS as well!! 75 utes 250 sedans took a long while to move them all.. They still had some late last year floating around.

XR8 sold 734 Sedans and 843 Utes in 2009 when XR8 was still in full production... Added together gives you 1577 vehicles.. Just for reference FPV only sold 1766 vehicles for the same period, including F6 Ute, F6 Sedan, F6E Sedan, GT, GT-P, GT-E, Pursuit, Super Pursuit, GS Sedan & GS Ute.

FPV will be lucky to sell that many cars in 2011 let alone GS Sedans and Utes.

Ford / FPV would have been better off working together on the XR8 if you ask me, the GS is a very mixed up car. Ive driven it in the Auto / Manual, and while it goes like a cut snake the XR6T for 15 - 20 kay cheaper does the same thing!!

flappist · 01-04-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They struggled with GS as well!! 75 utes 250 sedans took a long while to move them all.. They still had some late last year floating around.

XR8 sold 734 Sedans and 843 Utes in 2009 when XR8 was still in full production... Added together gives you 1577 vehicles..

FPV will be lucky to sell that many cars in 2011 let alone GS Sedans and Utes.

Ford / FPV would have been better off working together on the XR8 if you ask me, the GS is a very mixed up car if you ask me. Ive driven it in the Auto / Manual, and while it goes like a cut snake the XR6T for 15 - 20 kay cheaper does the same thing!!

And how many XR6 and XR6Ts in the same time?

FPV is a boutique marque geared up for low volume production and V8s are now a low volume item.....