Driver Training

[Trevor 57]

I am really interested in finding out about the outcomes from people who have done any kind of post-licence driver training.

The good, the bad and the ugly. The skid pan type ones, the race track type ones or the on-road type ones.

I am also interested to know if you had any type of accident afterwards, whether it was your fault of not.

[svo347]

BHP sent us through a Drivers ed course because we had a few accidents awhile back..
Best time ever, 8 hrs on wet/dry concrete then wet/dry mud..
Never forget being actually able to hang work vehicles out in all conditions & get paid for it!!...
My bad, we also got a Certificate ..
Learnt some valuable lessons...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by svo347

Learnt some valuable lessons...

What were they?

[svo347]

goin from wet to dry enables you to do a dukes of hazard style lean over..
No basically how to the handle the car, drive with your right foot & what to do if you are in trouble.

[FNQracing]

The big problem with these courses is that the skills tought need to be honed and practiced regularly for them to become second nature when you need them. You do a course, its all fresh for a few months and then what? You forget.

I agree that its better than nothing, but for them to be really successful, you need to keep yourself "in practice" which means going back every so often and refreshing your skills.

Usually, when you need to draw on these skills, they are in a moment when you have little time to think and react. If they are not second nature, you're in the lap of the gods.

[JAJH]

I did the John Bowe driver day which you get when you buy a GT and many years ago when I was a copper, I did an advanced driving course and in my opinion, if anyone has the opportunity to do one, they are not only great fun, but incredibly valueable in the skills and lessons it teaches you for on-road experiences.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FFOracing

The big problem with these courses is that the skills tought need to be honed and practiced regularly for them to become second nature when you need them. You do a course, its all fresh for a few months and then what? You forget.

I agree that its better than nothing, but for them to be really successful, you need to keep yourself "in practice" which means going back every so often and refreshing your skills.

Usually, when you need to draw on these skills, they are in a moment when you have little time to think and react. If they are not second nature, you're in the lap of the gods.

You are exactly right, I have been training for near on 20 years, and I sometimes still have to think about it.

[Trevor 57]

I believe on-road training, followed by a little bit of skid pan stuff at the end of the day is best becuse the on-road stuff gives you the skills and knowledge to drive defensively every day, not just when you get into a dangerous situation.


I remember many years ago, Dick Johnson's Sierra let go coming down Conrod at Bathurst and did a few 360's and stopped without hitting the fences. The commentator at the time said that Dick did a wonderful job controlling that, and Dick said later that he was just hanging on for grim death, hoping like hell he didn't anything.

My point here is that if a car is sliding at any stage then the car is out of control, coz if it was in control in wouldn't be skidding. Rally drivers are exceptionally good at controling a car on the edge, but even they get it wrong sometimes, and they are driving cars specially built for that type of driving.

The AAMI one is terrible I did it after doing the John bowe defensive and race ones. In the AAMI one they told people who didn't have ABS that they should lock up their wheels and none of the instructors knew what threshold braking was, infact im sure they thought it was something I made up.

[Psycho Chicken]

Yeah I've heard crap things about the AAMI one.

I did the Murcott one, would of been a total waste of time and money if I had ABS. I knew I can't steer with the brakes locked up, but I guess it's good for someone who doesn't know.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by lizardmech

The AAMI one is terrible I did it after doing the John bowe defensive and race ones. In the AAMI one they told people who didn't have ABS that they should lock up their wheels and none of the instructors knew what threshold braking was, infact im sure they thought it was something I made up.

That really surpirses me to hear that. These people used to be employed on a sub-contract basis by one of Australia's largest driver training organisations, either this is a one-off, or their internal training standards have dropped off, that is if they still have the contract with AAMI.

[Trevor 57]

I would really like to get some comments from the people who have said that they been through an on-road course, come on.

[MO]

Have done the ACT and NT police driver training,the ACT involved circuit and water based skid pan.
The NT involved an oil based skid pan.
Prior to and after these I was doing motorkhanas and some rally/hillclimbing and circuit work.

Since doing the police courses as a citizen not a copper,I can safely say I have not been involved in any mva's.

As for honing ones skills I do that every time I hit the road.

Oh just for the record the ACT course was done in the mid 70's and the NT was done in the mid 80's.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Oh just for the record the ACT course was done in the mid 70's and the NT was done in the mid 80's.

Oh, an old bloke like me, eh John?

Thnaks for the feedback, but I am still waiting for feedback about the on-road ones

[MAD]

I've done 3 courses with John Bowe institue, defensive, advanced and race.
The defensive and advanced were the most valuable for on road situations, but the race one was damn fun!
Threshold braking has been the most useful skill I have learned from them....I have been in a couple of near accidents due to shear stupidity of others, but managed to avoid them.

What do you mean by On-road training courses?

[donno]

I put a vote in never done one, but have had a alot of experience on dirt roads (I live on 15k of the stuff).

First thing dad taught me to do (before I could do more then 40!!) was emergancy brake on a loose gravel road without locking up, a hard task in an XE when you've barely driven before. He also taught me how to keep the thing under control when it gets locked up, or the car gets out of shape. The best thing I found about driving on dirt roads was that you learnt how much differently a car behaves on different surfaces, and immensely improves your judgement to what is a safe speed to travel, braking distances etc. Even now days when I've had my Ps for over 2 1/2 years, when dad comes for a drive he still gives me pointers, and I listen. Its stupidity to ignore such experience.

The main reason I didn't do a defensive driver course was because the one they offer at home was stuff dad had already taught me (one of my mates did one who was also a farm boy and told me it was useless, all they did was pull the hand brake on while driving and taught you to brake without locking up).

I have never put a scratch in a car, nor have I been in a situation where I felt that I was out of control of myself or the vehicle. I've already arranged with my mates for my 21st I'm getting an advanced driver course/track day at the paul morris I think it is centre. Should be a hoot.

[MO]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Oh, an old bloke like me, eh John?

Thnaks for the feedback, but I am still waiting for feedback about the on-road ones

Hey enough of the OLD alright,I like to think of it as maturing with grace,although my missus still gives me heaps about being a big old teenager,hahaha.

[DRU842]

I've done the Ian Luff course & have recommended it to all & sundary. Mt cousin has continued on to the CAMS licence stages for rallying. The attitude & humour on the day mask the valuable lessons you learn. I think its a great idea to go along after every car purchase or significant mod to get to grips with the cahnges.

[AUIII XR8 MAN]

I haven't done any car base ones, just the ones were I have had work driver trainer to point out bad habbits that you pick up in every day driving.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by MADXF

What do you mean by On-road training courses?

That is where a driver trainer sits beside you in normal traffic situations and give you proactive training about planning, observation, following distances, mirror use and numerous other things. It is done on-road, rather than on a race track or off-road facility.

[WIKIDSTIX]

isnt that just going for your p's?? :P

i havent done one yet, but i will in the next couple of years, is it true that if you do an advanced driving course that your insurance goes down?? im only 18 btw.

[kiwikid]

Originally Posted by wikid_sticks

isnt that just going for your p's?? :P

i havent done one yet, but i will in the next couple of years, is it true that if you do an advanced driving course that your insurance goes down?? im only 18 btw.

depends on your insurance company. some will, some wont....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by wikid_sticks

isnt that just going for your p's?? :P

Not really, the training you are talking about NORMALLY only goes far enough for you to pass a licence test. The type of training I am talking about takes it to another level.

i havent done one yet, but i will in the next couple of years, is it true that if you do an advanced driving course that your insurance goes down?? im only 18 btw.

As far as I know, only AAMI promote this, but only through one of the own courses.

[MAD]

That AAMI course is a load of BS. They just tell you to lock up the brakes in an emergency.

[tickford2001]

road type one, and race track one for me

[Biggoggs]

None, although I'd like to give one a go oneday. Are they expensive (if there's any at all in Tas)?

Back in the dim past I did a two week course run by Colin Bond, ( Australian world class rally driver ) as a prelude to getting a CAMS licence, that course set me up for the rest of my life. I've lived on gravel roads for a good part of my life

I went into the course thinking I was a good driver having learnt on gravel roads, discovered I was kidding myself on day one and finished the course with an A.

Regards Prof. Rabbit

[K_Man]

Originally Posted by MADXF

That AAMI course is a load of BS. They just tell you to lock up the brakes in an emergency.

I read in an old copy of Wheels magazine that there is a bit of logic to this, in a straight line anyway. We teach ourselves to not go too hard on the brakes initially, then progressively squeeze them down so they dont lock. However if you lock your wheels and then ease off enough to unlock them, you wash off more speed initially, and stop shorter. Was actually an article on the BMW driver training course and it's head instructor. Very interesting read.

[deesun]

I have also done the Murcott one and found that many of the people were reluctant to push themselves into a minor skid at just 60kph,so I was thinking WTF did you come for but I realised that most of the people had been given the course as a package when they bought their car. The people who actually paid for thier own course pushed harder even the bloke with the 5 series bIMMER. My son (red P plater) got a good deal out of the course and we are both booked to do Defensive 2 a more comprehensive course at Oran Park in a month or so. Both these courses are taught by current race drivers but Defensive 1 doesn't fit into your poll category.

[GlennBA]

i did one about 2 months ago at mt cotton in the AU, it was really good. Was all about braking, avoiding hazards and regaining control of the car. Well worth it and i'd recomend it.