Caught- but does this sound dodgy?

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:27 PM

Heard an interesting story off the young fella at work today, he is 19 and drives a Nissan 180SX, stock except for a mild exhaust system.

The other day he was driving into a shopping centre, and proceded to grab a parking spot out the front of a JB HiFi store, where he was immediately greeted by a traffic operations cop in an unmarked XR8. The copper proceded to ask him what he had done to the car (quite arrogant), which he replied. The officer told him that the power:weight ratio was illegal for him to drive this car, so no more driving till he's fully licensed. Vicroads and the insurer had previously told him that his car was not on the list of banned cars for P Platers, which causes some confusion and clashes between agencies.

He then did a noise test on the car, revved out to 4000rpm all while the music was being played out the front of the JB Hifi store....to which protests fell on deaf ears. It was over by about 5 decibels. Then a series of photo's was taken of the car, not sure if this is allowed or could be considered an invasion of privacy? Apparently this copper has quite a nasty reputation, trolls the Sylvia Forums and while he is doing his job, seems a bit over the top. The way the story was explained to me it sounded a bit suss, so i told him i'd ask around on here to get some similar stories and advice

I think there has to be some clamping down on P platers and what they can drive...but what do you think, is this over the top and cause for some sort of clarification by vicroads etc as to what is and isnt allowed? This guy isnt a hoon by the way, the car is quite a weapon for being 14 or so years old but doesnt drive it out of the ordinary

dansedgli · 18-01-2005, 10:32 PM

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

This guy hassles my mate about his skyline all the time. It is standard but he cant drive it due to power to weight. Somehow the police officer knew my friends email address too which he thought was wierd.

Other than stories of this buy being really strict on P platers I have never witnessed first hand what he does.

A sound test outside of JB sounds a bit unfair. Did he used a proper measuring tool or his ears to test the noise?

Doug had pictures taken of his car when he was inspected by police at springnats as well. Someone told me they use it to teach newbies what parts are what on a car.

svo347 · 18-01-2005, 10:33 PM

Sounds like a load of shit & your friend Really should have asked for the coppers name & badge number

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

lol...thats him, goes to show how big his reputation is

Apparently he's been threatened by a whole heap of guys too. Goes to show you never know who's watching forums, checking out when cruises are etc

Psycho Chicken · 18-01-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

I thought that straight away!

This guy doesn't seem to hand out canaries, just fine you left right and centre.

Can't see how a sound level check in an uncontrolled environment is possibly legal.

NZ · 18-01-2005, 10:41 PM

Wheres that lynch mob

rodderz · 18-01-2005, 10:50 PM

So is the legal way of measuring Db rating holding revs at 4000rpm? I'm sure i've heard some performance shops getting EPA testing done that it's done at idle...or is this a separate test?

dansedgli · 18-01-2005, 10:52 PM

I think it depends on the Rev limit, at springnats Dave was sound tested by the police and had to hold revs at 2500-3000

Psycho Chicken · 18-01-2005, 11:04 PM

It's actually where the car produces peak power.

There's a massive list of cars, listing what RPM that is. For cars not on the list they use a formula. My mate got off because his car wasn't on the list, so they used the formula.

Pity it was legal at the RPM they tested at, but not legal at the real peak.

XRated · 19-01-2005, 12:53 AM

Yeah I remember reading about this officer several times.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but if driving a 180SX on your Ps is illegal, then it's tough luck and you should have known about the risk - that goes for anyone and any car that isn't deemed 'legal' on your Ps.

The sound test on the other hand is open for debate. Where do they actually hold the db meter?

b2tf · 19-01-2005, 01:32 AM

Yeah even ive heard of this guy before, but he wont get me cos im 500kms away

:.

Id be kicking up a major stink for a number of reasons:

*test not conducted to guidelines (i.e. with a proper meter etc)
*i most certainly would NOT let them take photos of my car regardless of what purpose it is for without my express written consent (and id take the plates off)
*the cop being an arrogant ***** as some unfortunately are.

If he's well known, ask for his badge number and last name, write a complaint out (a decent one, dont just go off in words) and send copies to him, his boss and the commissioner's office.

pauljh74 · 19-01-2005, 01:44 AM

when I had a test done on my XE falcon a few years back, they mounted a microphone about a foot or more from the exhaust pipe offset at an angle of about 30 degrees. The testing speed is at 3/4 of the revs where max power is produced. So my XE was tested at 2775 RPM - and failed by 2 decibels in that case :(

Did a quick search for the 180SX specs and came up with this:

http://www.xspecs.net/modules.php?na...howpage&pid=16

With the 1.8 litre producing 131kW at 6400 RPM and weighing 1120 kg, it is under the limit.
The 2.0 litre producing 153kW at 6000RPM at the same or similar weight, would be over the limit of 125 kw/tonne

The exhaust test would be conducted at 4800RPM for the 1.8 and 4500RPM for the 2.0 litre. I think the max decibels it can register for a post Nov 83 car is 88 or 90 dB. Did the guy set up the microphone at an angle as I mentioned earlier? Did he rev it to the correct revs and not go over? If the owner thinks he can drive it and reckons it's not over the noise limit, get it tested at an approved exhaust place. If it's proved under the limit, make a complaint and carry around the test results in the car from that point on.

The 180SX probably wouldn't be on the Vicroads list because it is an import - the list would probably only have cars sold officially through dealerships here on it.

kooky · 19-01-2005, 10:34 AM

He can do you for noise by just suspicion that it is over the limit so he is not in the wrong. Someone I know was pulled over in his WRX and was told he couldn't drive the car on his P's. Was not true Vicroads confimed it was legal and he didn't hav to pay the fine.

XplosiveR6 · 19-01-2005, 10:57 AM

this wouldnt be at knox ozone would it, i know a few people being pulled over by the same copper at ozone. I can understand why though with all the hoons there

EFFalcon · 19-01-2005, 11:06 AM

my guess is it would be.
Knox is his area

AdzT3-146 · 19-01-2005, 12:03 PM

Yeh i think knox is his area. i know exactly where J.B is and they always have music playing out the front. very unfair.

And yes EF Dave there are heaps of hoons and tossers in general who cruise ozone. go there on a friday night and you'll see.

JG3282 · 19-01-2005, 12:29 PM

seems like a bit of a catch 22 then

XRated · 19-01-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ef_classic

And yes EF Dave there are heaps of hoons and tossers in general who cruise ozone. go there on a friday night and you'll see.

LOL! Which reminds me... On Thursday night I went down there to meet some mates. I saw a R33 with it's hood up and an unmarked VX/VY behind it trying to look for anything defectable.

Two minutes later I park my car, and hear this MASSIVE burnout :sm_headba So I look up the road after getting out of my car, and there is the same unmarked cop car who obviously heard/saw this burnout as well, and cut them off. Some guy in a VX SS ute was ripping it up for ages. Another 30 minutes later and it was on the back of a tow truck!! Gold!

:

dansedgli · 19-01-2005, 12:41 PM

The 33 wasnt white with a big veilside kit was it?

Knox is great for finding hoons, I love driving through ozone and letting the flutter noise happen and watching everyone pay out on the ricer behind me. haha

outback_ute · 19-01-2005, 12:46 PM

From a technical point of view the noise level from the JB Hifi speakers would add to that of the car to give the total sound level reading - you should be able to contest it by having a noise test done as per the guidelines in a recognised/registered workshop. Perhaps Vicroads would be able to provide a list, or they might be on the website.

XA-Coupe · 19-01-2005, 01:08 PM

He is screwed about the EPA test.. in PETTIT's opinion at the time the car was over.. he cannot contest it so he may as well get on with the testing etc etc. If the car was intercepted and tested under a landing jumbo, that's just the way it is.
Oh, I have heard of him before .... funnily enough he used to only hand out canaries ... I never saw him write a ticket in a whole month but had enough canaries to start a bird farm... seems that things have changed.

shane3 · 19-01-2005, 01:12 PM

I thought that all noise tests had to be done at Vic Roads in a controlled environment, and the hand held noise meters are worth around $20,000 each, so what is a cop running around with one of them for and trying to bust every one, sounds like he's trying to make up for some thing else :tosser1: , and as for power to weight ratio I was driveing my FPV GT on my "P's"

XA-Coupe · 19-01-2005, 01:25 PM

There is no requirement for the police to carry testing equipment at all, it is just 'in their opinion'.

pauljh74 · 19-01-2005, 01:30 PM

The EPA website has a list of approved testers
http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/testers.asp

I take it the cop just defected your mate for the loud exhaust - if the car is under the limit, any fines issued for alleged non compliance would be void, right? It makes sense that the car owner gets the opportunity to remedy the alleged breach - and if they don't, then they get fined. When I got mine tested about 5 or so years ago, the test was about $60, and the place I went to in Box Hill - Daalder exhausts - didn't charge for the re-test as long as I got remedial work done by them - because it failed the initial test.

The policeman's testing environment and accuracy could have holes shot right through it if the matter was pursued further. An independent test would be the first step.

One lesson I learned when I got my mild sports exhaust on my XE was that next time I get a non standard exhaust, I will make sure they guarantee it is under the limit, so if it isn't, I can get is remedied at the vendor's expense! If an exhaust shop can't guarantee a sports system is legal, then they can't be any good and it's best to go elsewhere.

XA-Coupe · 19-01-2005, 01:40 PM

You will find that a fine wasn't issued so there is nothing to contest.
pauljh74 has the right idea ... get a guarantee that the system is legal and and least you have some recourse if you get busted.

rodderz · 19-01-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

when I had a test done on my XE falcon a few years back, they mounted a microphone about a foot or more from the exhaust pipe offset at an angle of about 30 degrees. The testing speed is at 3/4 of the revs where max power is produced. So my XE was tested at 2775 RPM - and failed by 2 decibels in that case :(

Did a quick search for the 180SX specs and came up with this:

http://www.xspecs.net/modules.php?na...howpage&pid=16

With the 1.8 litre producing 131kW at 6400 RPM and weighing 1120 kg, it is under the limit.
The 2.0 litre producing 153kW at 6000RPM at the same or similar weight, would be over the limit of 125 kw/tonne

The exhaust test would be conducted at 4800RPM for the 1.8 and 4500RPM for the 2.0 litre. I think the max decibels it can register for a post Nov 83 car is 88 or 90 dB. Did the guy set up the microphone at an angle as I mentioned earlier? Did he rev it to the correct revs and not go over? If the owner thinks he can drive it and reckons it's not over the noise limit, get it tested at an approved exhaust place. If it's proved under the limit, make a complaint and carry around the test results in the car from that point on.

The 180SX probably wouldn't be on the Vicroads list because it is an import - the list would probably only have cars sold officially through dealerships here on it.

Some great info there Paul!
I'll pass this info onto him, will be useful to him if he decides to persue anything

He cant do much till he's 21 anyhow, considering it's over the maximum power limit for the weight. I think he's going to drive another car in the meantime

FRDXR6 · 19-01-2005, 03:32 PM

Its true but only the sr20det powered 180sx are over the limit the ca18det are fine. Go to www.nissansilvia.com if you want more info about 75% of the guys in the vic section have been reamed by this very officer, im glad i own a ford as he really has a soft spot for those imports.

klawsterfobik · 19-01-2005, 03:50 PM

XRated, my Cortina is supposedly over the limit... but most of the cars on here are more powerful than mine, and would definately be a lot more quicker. But in the eyes of VicRoads they are legal. I'm not a big fan of the power:weight rule, as i was only told that my car would be over the limit after VicRoads had passed it for Rego. The officer at the gate of VicRoads didnt even look twice at me as i drove out in it.

CAMS290 · 19-01-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Ahh another victim for Pettit I see.

Small world this!!! My first girlfriend was married to Mr Pettit, and he was a nice bloke. He really loved his Fords, but hated ricers and Holdens.
I havent seen him for years, he may of changed since then.

dansedgli · 19-01-2005, 03:59 PM

Really it is a small world, Ive never met him personally but as long as he likes Fords he is okay by me. I think he gets to drive a BA XR8 as well.