Australia trespassing on Indonesian Waters.

[Madaya]

I should loan my mobile phone to the RAN. It can pinpoint my position to within several metres on most days, within a couple of meters on others.

[bungarra]

Indos and others have been doing it to us for years. Ours was at least in a marked vessel not a "fishing" boat that has electronic interception equipment.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Indos and others have been doing it to us for years. Ours was at least in a marked vessel not a "fishing" boat that has electronic interception equipment.

Spot on, at the end of the day whats popular with media will get a run. This issue has been the flavour of the year and will continue to be. I don't understand why Australians get so hot and heavy over it, who really cares? There are worse issues going on in the world and our country right now that get no coverage. It's an Aussie media playground right now and i cant believe how gullible we all are, ABC,10,9 and 7 are all persuasive media outlets, follow Al Jazeera and at least you get facts.

End rant.

[xxx000]

Minister Against Immigration Scott Morrison sounded very nervous giving his statement about this occurrence

[MITCHAY]

Maybe if Indonesia did their fair share we wouldn't have to come near their waters at all as much.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Minister Against Immigration Scott Morrison sounded very nervous giving his statement about this occurrence

Mate he knows its pretty serious to the Indonesions, imo he's being contrite & respectful. Any immigration minister would have they're hands full in this situation policy issues aside.

cheers, Maka

[sneaky]

maybe if the indonesians did something to stop the boats leaving their waters we wouldn't have to be there to stop them entering ours..

and on a side note, is indonesia that powerful that we need to worry if we upset them a bit? i'm not fishing for an argument, actually have been wondering since they caught us spying and got really upset

[Legit290]

The Indonesian navy doesn't match us with large vessels but they have enough smaller craft to land soldiers on our Northern Coast at will

This makes them powerful enough for them to be a worry.

[Streets]

how many here would be up in arms if an armed Indonesian naval vessel turned up off the coast of Darwin

you can't have your navy chugging around another nation's territorial waters like they own it

[cheap]

Should send a clear message to Indo and others that things have changed The previous (slack and murderous) open border policy is over. Of course SHY and the other socialist bleeding heart hypocrites will be up in arms - they can all take a long jump!

If Indon doesn't like having the RAN (or anyone else) in their waters then all Indon needs to do is manage the illegals entering their territory in the first place. Indon simply needs to tow the illegals back to where-ever they first came from. Of course the multimillion dollar people smuggling industry within Indon might not want this to happen...

[cheap]

Originally Posted by sneaky

maybe if the indonesians did something to stop the boats leaving their waters we wouldn't have to be there to stop them entering ours..

and on a side note, is indonesia that powerful that we need to worry if we upset them a bit? i'm not fishing for an argument, actually have been wondering since they caught us spying and got really upset

The Indon military knows they're outgunned and besides they're in the midst of a presidential election. Even with the sad state of Australia's military and the Indon minions, invading Australia would be a turkey shoot. Beside all we need to do is keep listening in on their mobiles for news of their plans.

[cheap]

Duplicate post

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by cheap

Should send a clear message to Indo and others that things have changed The previous (slack and murderous) open border policy is over. Of course SHY and the other socialist bleeding heart hypocrites will be up in arms - they can all take a long jump!

If Indon doesn't like having the RAN (or anyone else) in their waters then all Indon needs to do is manage the illegals entering their territory in the first place. Indon simply needs to tow the illegals back to where-ever they first came from. Of course the multimillion dollar people smuggling industry within Indon might not want this to happen...

The Libs sought and spilled any info, truthful or not, they could get their hands on to try and discredit the former govt. I recall receiving various emails making all types of outrageous unsupported claims about boat people. But now they (Libs) have the reins it's all hush, hush for supposed 'tactical reasons'.

Amazing how we previously proudly accepted Vietnamese boat people who have integrated very successfully, but we've become a racist nation again and now call the latest boat people fleeing the same sort of persecution 'illegals' and use catch phrases like 'stop the boats' to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
A sad time for our nation that we'll look back on with shame in the future

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Streets

how many here would be up in arms if an armed Indonesian naval vessel turned up off the coast of Darwin

you can't have your navy chugging around another nation's territorial waters like they own it

I agree, we seem to have one rule for us and another for others.

We belittle other nations without looking inwards and seeing our own absurd one eyed attitude

[cheap]

Originally Posted by xxx000

The Libs sought and spilled any info, truthful or not, they could get their hands on to try and discredit the former govt. I recall receiving various emails making all types of outrageous unsupported claims about boat people. But now they (Libs) have the reins it's all hush, hush for supposed 'tactical reasons'.

Amazing how we previously proudly accepted Vietnamese boat people who have integrated very successfully, but we've become a racist nation again and now call the latest boat people fleeing the same sort of persecution 'illegals' and use catch phrases like 'stop the boats' to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
A sad time for our nation that we'll look back on with shame in the future

There was an election and the majority of people wanted the boats stopped. Get over it.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Minister Against Immigration Scott Morrison sounded very nervous giving his statement about this occurrence

And that pointless senator Sarah Hanson Young sounded like as smug and self important as ever...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by xxx000

The Libs sought and spilled any info, truthful or not, they could get their hands on to try and discredit the former govt. I recall receiving various emails making all types of outrageous unsupported claims about boat people. But now they (Libs) have the reins it's all hush, hush for supposed 'tactical reasons'.

Amazing how we previously proudly accepted Vietnamese boat people who have integrated very successfully, but we've become a racist nation again and now call the latest boat people fleeing the same sort of persecution 'illegals' and use catch phrases like 'stop the boats' to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
A sad time for our nation that we'll look back on with shame in the future

Cannot agree with you this time xxx000. To the best of my knowledge, the Vietnamese refugees did not have the money to pay people smugglers... They came here and worked hard for what they have which is more than can be said for other ethnic groups who are attracted by our easy welfare...

Correct me if I am wrong...

[mik]

There is a right way and a wrong way to enter the country, and its nothing whatever to do with being racist,
illegal aliens can bring disease with them, not to mention the fact without being screened you have no idea what sort of person is coming into the country, and i read some time ago the boat people accounted for about 3% entering oz, so for those on their high horses calling us racist etc,etc, perhaps think again.
Edit: imo immigration is something that needs very very very careful scrutiny, people should look/do research around the world to other country's that have embraced multiculturalism, look at UK, they have some very very serious problems over there that will not go away any time soon.

[BPXR6T]

Is it just me or are Indonesia itching for a fight. The last two diplomatic dramas have been met with massive overreaction, steeped in hypocracy. Or is an election looming. It would appear to me Indonesia is doing everything possible to sour the relationship from their end. Reasons??? Is Indonesia wanting to inflame tensions by sending warships in even after an apology and commitment the mistake would not occur again. Bad things happen when militaries rub shoulders. Payback for East Timor...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by mik

There is a right way and a wrong way to enter the country, and its nothing whatever to do with being racist,
illegal aliens can bring disease with them, not to mention the fact without being screened you have no idea what sort of person is coming into the country, and i read some time ago the boat people accounted for about 3% entering oz, so for those on their high horses calling us racist etc,etc, perhaps think again.
Edit: imo immigration is something that needs very very very careful scrutiny, people should look/do research around the world to other country's that have embraced multiculturalism, look at UK, they have some very very serious problems over there that will not go away any time soon.

Multiculturalism is a failed socialist ideal that had some benefits but was outweighed by the negatives. In hindsight though, there are many communities who successfully integrated into the Australian community because they left most of the baggage of their former lives in the country they left...

On the subject of Indonesia, why do we need to be on bended knee to them? Could someone enlighten me as to why we need close ties with them?

[csv8]

On the subject of Indonesia, why do we need to be on bended knee to them? Could someone enlighten me as to why we need close ties with them?
Because they are a growing population and they cann't go North, East or West only SOUTH!! Sometime in the future they will..so we have to be nice to them!!!!

The Indonesian National Armed Forces (Indonesian: Tentara Nasional Indonesia, TNI; formerly Angkatan Bersenjata Republik Indonesia, ABRI) in 2012 comprises approximately 476,000 personnel including the Army (TNI-AD), Navy (TNI-AL) including the Indonesian Marine Corps (Korps Marinir) and the Air Force (TNI-AU).

The Indonesian Army was formed during the Indonesian National Revolution, when it undertook a guerrilla war along with informal militia. As a result of this, and the need to maintain internal security, the Army has been organized along territorial lines, aimed at defeating internal enemies of the state and potential external invaders.[4]

Under the 1945 Constitution, all citizens are legally entitled and obliged to defend the nation. Conscription is provided for by law, yet the Forces have been able to maintain mandated strength levels without resorting to a draft. Most enlisted personnel are recruited in their own home regions and generally train and serve most of their time in units nearby.

The Indonesian armed forces are voluntary. The available manpower fit for military service of males aged between 16 to 49 is 52,000,000, with a further 2,000,000 new suitable for service annually[5]

Military spending in the national budget was widely estimated 3% of GDP in 2005,[5] but is supplemented by revenue from many military-run businesses and foundations. The Indonesian Defence force personnel does not include members of law enforcement and paramilitary personnel such as POLRI (Indonesian police) consisting of approximately 590,000 personnel, BRIMOB (police mobile brigade) of around 42,000 armed personnel, the Civil Service Police Unit, MENWA (collegiate military service) 26,000 trained personnel, and HANSIP (civil defense forces), number unknown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indones...l_Armed_Forces

[XW-BAXR6T]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

Is it just me or are Indonesia itching for a fight. The last two diplomatic dramas have been met with massive overreaction, steeped in hypocracy. Or is an election looming. It would appear to me Indonesia is doing everything possible to sour the relationship from their end. Reasons??? Is Indonesia wanting to inflame tensions by sending warships in even after an apology and commitment the mistake would not occur again. Bad things happen when militaries rub shoulders. Payback for East Timor...

Me thinks the previous government bend over so much as not to offend the indons that they got used to it & expected us to kiss their ***** everytime, now abbot is in power, the game has changed, they are upset, they dont seem to like the idea they being told we are looking after our sovereignty now by turning the boats back. According to them they see this as a threat to their sovereignty what a load of horse bullocks, its other way around.

It's obvious, they are upset that we are standing up to them & their peoples smugglers inside their territory & they are offended.

Give the indons time & they warm to the idea that Australia is a sovereign country & has the right to defend its borders like they do, and we are allowed to say buggar off mate when we can.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by superyob

On the subject of Indonesia, why do we need to be on bended knee to them? Could someone enlighten me as to why we need close ties with them?

Trade. It's developing economy is very appetising for Government policy makers.
It's nothing to do with military "might". Indonesia lacks a decent airforce and navy to put up a fight with ANZUS.

[GTP-RPD]

Originally Posted by csv8

On the subject of Indonesia, why do we need to be on bended knee to them? Could someone enlighten me as to why we need close ties with them?
Because they are a growing population and they cann't go North, East or West only SOUTH!! Sometime in the future they will..so we have to be nice to them!!!!

The Indonesian National Armed Forces (Indonesian: Tentara Nasional Indonesia, TNI; formerly Angkatan Bersenjata Republik Indonesia, ABRI) in 2012 comprises approximately 476,000 personnel including the Army (TNI-AD), Navy (TNI-AL) including the Indonesian Marine Corps (Korps Marinir) and the Air Force (TNI-AU).

The Indonesian Army was formed during the Indonesian National Revolution, when it undertook a guerrilla war along with informal militia. As a result of this, and the need to maintain internal security, the Army has been organized along territorial lines, aimed at defeating internal enemies of the state and potential external invaders.[4]

Under the 1945 Constitution, all citizens are legally entitled and obliged to defend the nation. Conscription is provided for by law, yet the Forces have been able to maintain mandated strength levels without resorting to a draft. Most enlisted personnel are recruited in their own home regions and generally train and serve most of their time in units nearby.

The Indonesian armed forces are voluntary. The available manpower fit for military service of males aged between 16 to 49 is 52,000,000, with a further 2,000,000 new suitable for service annually[5]

Military spending in the national budget was widely estimated 3% of GDP in 2005,[5] but is supplemented by revenue from many military-run businesses and foundations. The Indonesian Defence force personnel does not include members of law enforcement and paramilitary personnel such as POLRI (Indonesian police) consisting of approximately 590,000 personnel, BRIMOB (police mobile brigade) of around 42,000 armed personnel, the Civil Service Police Unit, MENWA (collegiate military service) 26,000 trained personnel, and HANSIP (civil defense forces), number unknown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indones...l_Armed_Forces

So basically we are ********D and they could over run us in a week. Didn't we also give them all our old navy frigates as well.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by csv8

The Indonesian National Armed Forces (Indonesian: Tentara Nasional Indonesia, TNI; formerly Angkatan Bersenjata Republik Indonesia, ABRI) in 2012 comprises approximately 476,000 personnel including the Army (TNI-AD), Navy (TNI-AL) including the Indonesian Marine Corps (Korps Marinir) and the Air Force (TNI-AU).

Apart from the Kopassus troops, their military is poor in discipline and trianing.

Originally Posted by csv8

Under the 1945 Constitution, all citizens are legally entitled and obliged to defend the nation. Conscription is provided for by law, yet the Forces have been able to maintain mandated strength levels without resorting to a draft. Most enlisted personnel are recruited in their own home regions and generally train and serve most of their time in units nearby.

The Indonesian armed forces are voluntary. The available manpower fit for military service of males aged between 16 to 49 is 52,000,000, with a further 2,000,000 new suitable for service annually[5]).

If you have ever been to Indonesia, you will know that unless your family is involved,was inolved in themilitary or government, you need to have the money otherwise it is very hard to get into the forces. An Indonesian business associates son was educated in English with an Australian University degree in English Literature and also Mechanical Engineering. As there was not much work when he first came out of Uni he tried to enlist, he had to pay the equivelant of $500 Aus for them to look at his application at Jakarta Military Command.
He decided the Military in Indonesia wasn't for him.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by GTP-RPD

So basically we are ********D and they could over run us in a week. Didn't we also give them all our old navy frigates as well.

Uttering words to the effect of "we would be overrun in a week" is plain wrong.

Pray tell how would a corrupt 3rd world regime secretly plan organise and get the vast minions at their disposal across the sea without attracting some attention and ire from the powers that be?

People need to do themselves a favour and measure the distances involved, it is a bit more difficult than crossing The English Channel. Now what are the invaders going to use to sail across the sea, a vast fleet of fishing boats? How well is this going so far? Does anyone honestly think a concerted and deliberate "invasion" isn't going to be met with some resistance by Australian armed services. Once in open waters the fishing boats would be sitting ducks. Australia has dozens and dozens of planes available to make any open sea crossing (no matter how large in numbers) have a very very bad day. Naval vessels attract torpedo's and missiles.

Of course some would make it to land and then what? Have you been to North Western Australia or Northern Territory - you don't last long without tons of supplies. They'd die of malnutrition, disease and the crocs would take out a few too. Let Indon rattle their sabres because that's all they can do and they know it.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by xxx000

The Libs sought and spilled any info, truthful or not, they could get their hands on to try and discredit the former govt. I recall receiving various emails making all types of outrageous unsupported claims about boat people. But now they (Libs) have the reins it's all hush, hush for supposed 'tactical reasons'.

Amazing how we previously proudly accepted Vietnamese boat people who have integrated very successfully, but we've become a racist nation again and now call the latest boat people fleeing the same sort of persecution 'illegals' and use catch phrases like 'stop the boats' to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
A sad time for our nation that we'll look back on with shame in the future

I don't think we've become a racist nation again.
People I talk to have absolutely no problem with GENUINE refugees but the great majority of these current boat people are far from that.

[SpoolMan]

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