Hundreds of guns seized in NSW raid

Fev · 28-05-2008, 01:27 PM

I'm dont know much about gun law's but i dont see anything wrong here.. so im just a little confused here...

Quote:

An 84-year-old licensed gun dealer has been arrested in central western New South Wales in a police investigation into illegal firearms.

Officers seized about 300 guns and more than 20,000 rounds of ammunition in a raid on the dealer's business in Forbes this morning.

Police will examine them as part of a five-month undercover investigation into illegal gun trafficking.

The 84-year-old man is being questioned at Forbes Police Station.

Raids were also carried out on four other businesses and homes in Forbes and Peak Hill.

Another man was arrested at Peak Hill, where officers found a military-style assault rifle.

Police say charges are pending and several people will lose their gun licences.

www.bigpond.com

Is it illegal to have that many guns even though you are a licensed firearms dealer? What has he done wrong?

jcxr · 28-05-2008, 01:29 PM

Most likely trafficing illegal military type firearms

Fev · 28-05-2008, 01:30 PM

he didnt have any though? although i guess since its only just happened more info will come later

Feathers · 28-05-2008, 01:34 PM

It is probably that the types or firearms he had were illegal.

Ringo · 28-05-2008, 01:38 PM

Hand guns and semi automatics perhaps.....

FGII-XR6 · 28-05-2008, 01:56 PM

or he was selling to unlicenced people

Kryton · 28-05-2008, 02:31 PM

the cops have raided him for a reason, even if you fail to see the problem.

Fev · 28-05-2008, 02:32 PM

well ofcourse i know that, i was just curious to know why as i have very little knowledge of firearms laws, wondering if there were limits on the amount of ammo or weapons a retailer can store to sell etc

weenie · 28-05-2008, 02:45 PM

Fancy that, a registered dealer having 100s of guns

: Most likley the same as other similar incidents, small paper work issues , so we tell all the media then raid the place with heaps of cops. then again, if they have busted him for selling illegal guns, then he should be locked away for a long time. Then there should be more of this instead of penalising the lisenced owners. registered owners & guns are not the problem.

HLC · 28-05-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

I'm dont know much about gun law's but i dont see anything wrong here.. so im just a little confused here...

Is it illegal to have that many guns even though you are a licensed firearms dealer? What has he done wrong?

if the firearms are all licenced and registered, and fulfill their 6 competition shoots a year or whatever the regs are, then they are fine. that is as a private owner.

as a dealer, 300 registered guns and 20 000 rounds of ammunition, who cares.

but they may (most probably) will be illegal firearms. unregistered, or banned.

HLC · 28-05-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weenie

Fancy that, a registered dealer having 100s of guns

: Most likley the same as other similar incidents, small paper work issues , so we tell all the media then raid the place with heaps of cops. then again, if they have busted him for selling illegal guns, then he should be locked away for a long time. Then there should be more of this instead of penalising the lisenced owners. registered owners & guns are not the problem.

exaclty.

im sick of jumping through hoops to keep my licence and or purchase more fireamrs, because some idiot with NO LICENCE, and ILLEGAL FIREARMS goes and does something stupid. and in turn, average joe, licenced, law abiding firearm owner gets slugged with stupid laws because him and all the other licenced law abiding firearms owners are causing so much trouble in society.

Duke · 28-05-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLC

exaclty.

im sick of jumping through hoops to keep my licence and or purchase more fireamrs, because some idiot with NO LICENCE, and ILLEGAL FIREARMS goes and does something stupid. and in turn, average joe, licenced, law abiding firearm owner gets slugged with stupid laws because him and all the other licenced law abiding firearms owners are causing so much trouble in society.

Only just got my license this month - I started the application process in November last year. No wonder there's illegal trafficking in firearms

:

He was raided as part of an investigation into trafficking, not for having too many. They seized all of his stock not because he had too much, I guess, but because of his involvement in the process.

HLC · 28-05-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke

Only just got my license this month - I started the application process in November last year. No wonder there's illegal trafficking in firearms

:

He was raided as part of an investigation into trafficking, not for having too many. They seized all of his stock not because he had too much, I guess, but because of his involvement in the process.

its a pain

when i upgraded from my minors permit to full (adult) licence, a process which shouldnt have taken more than about 6 weeks took 4 months. i went unlicenced for a period of time. that really sucked.

TURBOTAXI · 28-05-2008, 08:33 PM

I think you may find that liscensed dealers can have almost any type of firearm?

Flappist?

And nmbers are not an issue either - as long as they are on the books.

flappist · 28-05-2008, 08:45 PM

Depending on licence type there are no restrictions on quantity or types of firearm. No type of firearm is banned outright although there are severe restrictions on most military class weapons.

I will find out what the story is tomorrow.

Daymoe · 28-05-2008, 09:26 PM

The fine for importing illegal weapons is pretty harsh, for Victoria i think it is 10 years jail and or $250,000 fine.

uranium_death · 28-05-2008, 10:25 PM

I thought that assault rifles were illegal. There is simply no need for their power and in the hands of the wrong person, could be deadly. Just spray and pay.

I know that hunting rifles are accepted with a license.

Hand guns I am not sure.

But I do like guns nonetheless, but I don't like killing. Work that out.
I like marksmanship.

flappist · 28-05-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I thought that performance cars were illegal. There is simply no need for their power and in the hands of the wrong person, could be deadly. Just spray and pay.

I know that road cars are accepted with a license.

race cars I am not sure.

But I do like cars nonetheless, but I don't like driving. Work that out.
I like sportsmanship.

Deja vu?

uranium_death · 28-05-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Deja vu?

No.

I love driving, I know that performance cars aren't illegal (depending on what you consider a performance car to be), and although I like sportsmanship, my constant swearing on the tennis court probably isn't a good thing, although I don't direct it at the opposition. But I always end a match in a handshake, and always try to make the right call.

Cheers

:

Falcon_Phill · 28-05-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Deja vu?

How do you spray and pray with a vehicle?

Kryton · 28-05-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

How do you spray and pray with a vehicle?

wasnt it Mildura?

troppo · 28-05-2008, 10:55 PM

I never transferred my licence when I moved to the NT, kinda regret that given how hard it is to get a licence these days...
Even in those days auto or semi auto rifles were illegal (except shotguns/.410's) as well as handguns unless licenced through a pistol club membership, bear in mind this was long before Martin Bryant and the new (10 years old now) restrictions. The licence itself had 2 designations, a letter for the class of firearm and a number as the reason for licencing for that class. Mine showed all classes except auto and semi-auto rifles but the number designation was different for the pistol class. The rifle and shotgun classes were designated as primary production but the pistol class was restricted to club events and membership proof was required to get the class on my licence.
At a guess, I'd say he's been dealing in classes of firearms that he's not licenced for or are illegal outright.

mikestp · 28-05-2008, 11:15 PM

Id say the gun dealer had unlicensed guns in his possession.
id like to see what the cops are going to do with the thousands of guns from the buyback scheme that are buried out in the middle of nowhere by people with enough common sense to see that china, Indonesia and other countries have their eyes on australia and know that disarming this country was the stupidest thing the government has ever done. whats the point of saving a few lives if you loose a whole country?

flappist · 28-05-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

How do you spray and pray with a vehicle?

It is called "drifting".......

The point I was trying to make is that people who have very little understanding and a large amount of emotion and agenda use the same rhetoric with only the subject substituted to suit the occaision.

But we will see how it goes. Police don't always get it right or even close to right. There is a lot of "politics" whenever guns are mentioned. Just look at some of the replies here.

On the other hand the dealer could have been a crook and, as I said earlier, I will find out what the story is tomorrow. (I have many friends in low places still)

Falcon_Phill · 28-05-2008, 11:39 PM

"There is simply no need for their power and in the hands of the wrong person, could be deadly. Just drift."

Riiight.

Rodp · 29-05-2008, 07:29 AM

I'm pretty sure the hand grenade they found wasn't legal.

dallasv8 · 29-05-2008, 02:37 PM

semi autos and pistol licences can be had by properties with no need to attend gun clubs as far as i know.ive been on a sheep/cattle station chasing pigs on motorbikes with a pistol,makes life a hell of a lot easier to get rid of them.

as we all know, gun laws only take the guns away from law abiding people.

tex · 29-05-2008, 02:56 PM

Looks good in the news (for all the anti gun lobby) , and makes police look like they're doing their job.......

A registered firearm dealer may keep military 'style' semi / autos, and may sell them to appropriately licenced persons / dealers. 20,000 rounds, big deal.

More than likely a(nother) case of hanging someone that has done nothing more than not lodged appropriate paerwork or something silly.

meanwhile, 1000's of the wrong people have got them stashed under their house, buried in the back yard and hidden in false walls.

blownvn · 29-05-2008, 03:29 PM

According to news reports he sold guns to undercover detectives illegally. It's a shame to see licensed firearms dealers behaving in this manner because it tars us all with the same brush.

I find it funny that people here would believe that banning guns is a good thing yet we should be able to do what we want with our cars. Hypocrisy much? :togo:

More people die on our roads than by guns, and by a large factor. The people who want to ban guns also want to ban high performance cars and just about everything else that gives you and me pleasure. How about a bit of live and let live?

To answer the OP question, 300 guns and 20,000 in a gunshop is nothing. Many gunshops have much more than this because there are fewer gunshops around these days.

I do believe in licensing gun owners just to keep the guns out of the hand of criminals and the mentally deranged but I also believe that we should be able to own what we want with the appropriate licenses - including full auto.

Duke · 29-05-2008, 04:01 PM

Off topic but following the theme; I'm trying to recall a statement made to me by the president of my gun club whilst I was in the process of joining... "As far as sports and injuries go, shooting has never had a fatality and only 1 injury, which was not caused by a gun"
Assuming it's valid - Not many sports could boast a record like that - possibly chess?