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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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01-03-2012, 09:55 PM | #1 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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As the title says, will Territory become Fords No1 local car, taking over from Falcon, cause it seems like it's heading that way. Its seems likely the Territory will take over from Falcon in sales this year, it has strong order books where Falcon has none. Ford have increased Territory builds to near 1 to 1 with Falcon, but is it time Ford changed that and started building more Territorys than Falcon and started to concentrate more on the Territory than Falcon?
I've heard rumours they may be looking at LPi Territory again, not sure how true that is but I think anything that Ford can do to increase Territory sales can go some way to compensating for lower Falcon sales they are now achieving. It works out better in a way because Territory is Fords cash cow, it sells in much higher numbers to private buyers and most of the sales go to the more expensive TS and Titanium, and most are diesel, which with the high aussie dollar makes that $3250 diesel price premium more profitable now than what it was when released. The SUV market is solid, it continues to grow, Ford can rely on sales staying at or rising above current levels due to the popularity of SUV's, something they can't rely on with large cars, which continue to fall. I think now is the time to make the switch. I think adding a few extra models to the range would be a good step, I don't think they'd do an XR version but how about a Territory Sport. Mesh grilles like XR, maybe some small side skirts and a front bumper lip, lower firmer suspension and 19's as standard. XR style seats and instrument cluster. I6 or 3 litre diesel as an option, to keep costs down use the 180kw 500nm Land Rover version, it would go pretty well. Either RWD petrol or RWD/AWD for diesel. Might be expensive to engineer the 3 litre but I don't think the 2.7 cuts the mustard in a sports application. Maybe try to position it between TS and Titanium. And maybe go above Titanium with a Titanium LTD, they looked at doing an LTD version back in 2004, to tap into the growing luxury SUV market. Fit some more chrome, maybe make the chrome grille bars solid chrome like Explorer, fit some quality Howe leather like they used to fit to LTD, maybe splash some more of it around the cabin to the handbrake lever, door trims etc, a branded upgraded audio, well above premium sound, powered tailgate and some other gadgets. Thoughts? |
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01-03-2012, 10:01 PM | #2 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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If thats the case, it would not be that bad. Hopfully it will help the case for the falcon, aslong as the two share platforms.
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01-03-2012, 10:02 PM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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It would be great if they could do it and keep the same line rate, that way every Falcon not getting built is a higher profit Territory.
Something like a sport model might work, but it would be the same application as an NA XR6 Falcon so Ford might not actually be that opposed to using the XR nomenclature. I think they would need a taller wheel/tyre package though. The current 18's dont show it as bad, but the old 17" wheel package looked tiny. Kluger wears the same profile tyre on a 19 as Territory does now on an 18. |
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01-03-2012, 10:05 PM | #4 | ||
SY TS AWD LPG TEZZA
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 2,383
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LPi Territory would sell well. They just need around 120L usable to allow towing a decent distance in the outback. Towing a caravan with that would get you 600km. Non towing on the open road would get nearly 900km. Two 62L usable torroid tanks tucked underneath where the fuel tank is now would do it. Not sure what that would do to ground clearance as I haven't measured it. You could keep the spare wheel where it is and have 7 seats.
As for different variants, I'm going to say something that many would agree with. Bring back the Turbo I6 and have it available in AWD and 2WD, as well as the NA I6 in both arrangements. You could go back to SX to SYII front diff with the AWD petrol like it was always done. The diesel front diff is a bit iffy to me with a clutch or something on the transfer case. You don't need that sort of arrangement with the petrol anyway. For the LTD version make it AWD and the SC Coyote 5L motor only. Would that sell? Absolutely.
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1st car 75 XB Fairmont wagon 302C converted to 351C. 2nd car 82 ZK Fairlane 351C 4spd AOD LPG/Avgas 3rd car 97 EL Falcon police car 4L auto dual fuel 4th car 90 XF ute (work car) 5th car 06 SY TS AWD Territory Orbital LPi 6th car 95 XG ute 7th car 2014 SZ Territory TX Petrol Fords all my life. |
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01-03-2012, 10:18 PM | #5 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Forget I6 Turbo or V8, they tried the turbo and it didn't work, they were guzzlers and sold in tiny numbers within a year of release. Not enough demand, not when petrols getting over $1.50 with it likely to get higher over time. A V8 would be cool but for the same reasons it won't work.
A V8 diesel would be better but wouldn't happen. |
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01-03-2012, 10:27 PM | #6 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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They could do an XR6-style Terri, but I'd pass on using another type of engine (just adds more costs), make it more cosmetic than performance because at the end of the day its an SUV and they arent performance cars.
Also an LTD Terri. The upper-lux SUV segment is very lucrative. Both of these shouldnt cost too much to do as the items needed are basically parts bin type stuff - there's no engineering or whatever that needs to be done.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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01-03-2012, 10:31 PM | #7 | ||
SY TS AWD LPG TEZZA
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 2,383
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People who buy turbos and V8's don't care about fuel consumption. Those people do exist and at present will buy something like the 408kW Turbo V8 BMW X5. How many on this forum have Turbo Territory's? Heaps. All the other manufacturers make high HP SUV's. They're special and they carry high price tags, but people who buy them don't care about fuel consumption.
A fuel conscious Territory buyer would buy the 2.7 diesel or the 2WD petrol with LPi. If the Turbo was using LPi the bad fuel economy thing goes out the window too.
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1st car 75 XB Fairmont wagon 302C converted to 351C. 2nd car 82 ZK Fairlane 351C 4spd AOD LPG/Avgas 3rd car 97 EL Falcon police car 4L auto dual fuel 4th car 90 XF ute (work car) 5th car 06 SY TS AWD Territory Orbital LPi 6th car 95 XG ute 7th car 2014 SZ Territory TX Petrol Fords all my life. |
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01-03-2012, 10:33 PM | #8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 531
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My money is on Focus and Ranger both selling in higher numbers than Falcon and Territory this year.
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01-03-2012, 10:45 PM | #9 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne. Vic
Posts: 18
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The "LTD Territory" might be a good opportunity to introduce the Lincoln name to Australia. Being at this high level, the SC 5.0l V8 would not be out of place. I see plenty of BMW X5 V8s around. Or perhaps the defunct 3.6l turbo diesel V8 that Range Rover had, although I have no idea of any contractual impediments there. You'd think under Mullaly's Ford that we would see Lincoln one day in Australia.
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01-03-2012, 10:47 PM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: by the beach
Posts: 1,982
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a manual box would be good not everybody wants auto
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01-03-2012, 10:51 PM | #11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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01-03-2012, 10:52 PM | #12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Increasing the build rate of Territory to more than Falcon absolutely has merit. The average transaction price for Territory is well above that of the Falcon. If they need volume through the engine plant, then LPi Territory is also needed. The 3L TDV6 won't fit in the engine bay IIRC. The best way to get a diesel 'sport / XR' version out of it, is to retain the 2.7 TDV6 and fit a better intercooler and raise the boost a bit. The aftermarket tuners can take it from 140kW/440Nm to 170kW/520Nm. If Ford got it somewhere about half way, ie 155kW/480Nm it would be nice jigger Whilst they are at it, fit the 2.7 TDV6 to the Falcon Ute and Sedan.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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01-03-2012, 10:55 PM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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have moved on to the 3.0, I wonder of the old 2.7 TT engine is available to FoA... |
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01-03-2012, 10:55 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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01-03-2012, 10:58 PM | #15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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The 2.7 V6 Ecoboost is on the horizon, offering plenty of horsepower and torque,
how does 240 Kw and 480 nm sound with around 10 or 11 l/100 km? It's the balance of power, torque and fuel economy that's important. |
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01-03-2012, 11:00 PM | #16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 677
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Just one small problem, where are Ford going to get the money to do all this, and where is the business case for them doing so? It would mean they would need to sell a hell of a lot more Territory's to justify more models in the range.
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01-03-2012, 11:02 PM | #17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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01-03-2012, 11:04 PM | #18 | ||
Donating Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
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I went out with a mate in his new 2.7d TX today. smooth quiet impressive car.
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Oooh baby living in Miami....
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01-03-2012, 11:06 PM | #19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
It was regularly racking up 1400-1700 sales a month. Why not FEED the cash cow. Maybe Ford know they missed opportunities from the 2004 original model launch and want to INVEST in the brand by expanding it?! Right now most sales are TS and Titanium TDi. Plenty of profit. Why not offer something in the middle of those with different appeal.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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01-03-2012, 11:08 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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Most Falcons now sell at $36,990 drive away, Most territory sell above $43,000, that's the big difference..... |
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01-03-2012, 11:13 PM | #21 | ||||||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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I wonder how long the 2.7 stays in production, hopefully not too long so Ford are forced to make the switch to the 3 litre. |
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01-03-2012, 11:16 PM | #22 | ||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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They absolutely should bring out a sporty Territory. Let it have the wilder XR colors and sport it up somewhat. Sporty wheels, bigger ones. Plenty of people love to bling up their SUVs.
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01-03-2012, 11:17 PM | #23 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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01-03-2012, 11:21 PM | #24 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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01-03-2012, 11:22 PM | #25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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Land Rover already has a single turbo version. What I was thinking was 2.7 TT with the 3.0's upgraded injectors and intercooler.. |
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01-03-2012, 11:24 PM | #26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Titanium Limited is easy, just add side steps, sunroof, howe leather, Bose stereo, LED daytime lamps, woodgrain trim, chrome door handles. Sell for an extra 5 grand over Titanium and no extra engineering costs.
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01-03-2012, 11:24 PM | #27 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
And the fact that the current TDV6's are already built in the Ford plant in Dagenham, and then onsold to LR, Jaguar and Peugeot. Would be a good idea though. |
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01-03-2012, 11:25 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,325
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I thought the 2.7 had an alloy block....that's why it's only 440 lbs and one of the lightest V6 diesels readily available
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01-03-2012, 11:26 PM | #29 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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01-03-2012, 11:28 PM | #30 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
One of the reasons why the 2.7 V6 is only 1kg heavier than I6. Diesels are usually way heavier than petrol engines. |
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