Coal Seam Gas, Where do you stand?

[XR6Naranja]

Hey, so I've lately been really into not having this happen to Australia as I can go on forever how it will literally ruin Australia economically, environmentally and many other ways, I'm also under the impression not many people know about it, and if it's not stopped it's literally gonna kill a lot of Australia.

Here's a video that has some facts and statistics to give you an idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0noT7sPDtg

Where do you stand?

Do you not understand something, because I'll be happy to explain anything as well.

[Polyal]

So your background is what?

[XR6Naranja]

My cultural background?

I'm Australian and partly Spanish, and throw in a couple more from extended family?

Buttt not sure why that is relative, if by that you think this is happening elsewhere, the video is actually in Australia.

[Geez Louise]

I think Polyal meant more your professional background.

[Polyal]

No mate your cultural background has nothing to do with it, I meant your work experience in the field.

You could be purple and your opinion will still count if you have experience other than internet based.

edit: yeap GL got it

[Nikked]

Coal 2012

[max_torq]

Basically there is a lot of scare mongering pushed from the US, and pedalled by Alan Jones et al to the NIMBY and caravan of incontinence crowds, and their resistance to progress. The reality is it is a tidy dual use of resources without a gross environmental impact that is going to instrumental in fighting rising energy costs in the near future. One day, when we have fusion energy, lots of solar and wind etc we can ditch it, but in the meantime it is an important resource to explore the potential of.

[tankclare]

Theres always a big stink about the topic of mines and coal seam gas projects. I have always lived in areas who thrive on the influence of mines.

Had to laugh at a green peace bloke who was trying to fight against mines in the hunter valley. He set up a little table and gear at the shopping centre in Muswellbrook. Watching him trying to talk to miners still in work clothes was funny. Safe to say he didnt last long there.

Sure mines etc put out pollution but they also have programs designed to fight it and be good for the environment and our health. there are some very strict guide lines they are run by. Without mines literally thousands of people would be out of work and to put it simply alot of communites would simply die out without the economics the mines and workers bring to the area.

And as for land value going down the drain, what an absolute load of BS. I have family and also friends who have been bought out by the mines and not a single one of them have any complaints. As my uncle said "a lot of people whinge and ***** about the mines but I dont mind, they made me a millionaire 3 times over". I know of people who have had offers by the mines to buy their properties and they say no, double it and you got a deal. Straight away they say yes. Its crazy stuff.

Imagine where Australia would be without any mines. Less financial stability, less jobs, less exports etc. Just wouldnt be the same.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by max_torq

Basically there is a lot of scare mongering pushed from the US, and pedalled by Alan Jones et al to the NIMBY and caravan of incontinence crowds, and their resistance to progress. The reality is it is a tidy dual use of resources without a gross environmental impact that is going to instrumental in fighting rising energy costs in the near future. One day, when we have fusion energy, lots of solar and wind etc we can ditch it, but in the meantime it is an important resource to explore the potential of.

Originally Posted by Polyal

No mate your cultural background has nothing to do with it, I meant your work experience in the field.

You could be purple and your opinion will still count if you have experience other than internet based.

edit: yeap GL got it

Ahh true, mate I can't say I have any background to coal seam gas mining or any other scientific degrees of any sort, however this is why I displayed the video which has people who do have this sort of background, and there is a scientist interview of the same thing.

You'll also find CSG companies do admit to parts that are rather obviously harmful.

As to max_torq, we could of had wind, solar, water energy all set up by now, why is there such a resistance to that?

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by tankclare

Theres always a big stink about the topic of mines and coal seam gas projects. I have always lived in areas who thrive on the influence of mines.

Had to laugh at a green peace bloke who was trying to fight against mines in the hunter valley. He set up a little table and gear at the shopping centre in Muswellbrook. Watching him trying to talk to miners still in work clothes was funny. Safe to say he didnt last long there.

Sure mines etc put out pollution but they also have programs designed to fight it and be good for the environment and our health. there are some very strict guide lines they are run by. Without mines literally thousands of people would be out of work and to put it simply alot of communites would simply die out without the economics the mines and workers bring to the area.

And as for land value going down the drain, what an absolute load of BS. I have family and also friends who have been bought out by the mines and not a single one of them have any complaints. As my uncle said "a lot of people whinge and ***** about the mines but I dont mind, they made me a millionaire 3 times over". I know of people who have had offers by the mines to buy their properties and they say no, double it and you got a deal. Straight away they say yes. Its crazy stuff.

Imagine where Australia would be without any mines. Less financial stability, less jobs, less exports etc. Just wouldnt be the same.

I can easily understand mines, but a practice that causes billions of litres of water to be rendered useless, tonnes of gas leak and possible explosions, rendering fish in surrounding areas inedible, and much more definitely seems different to the mines.

[Nikked]

Watch a 3 minute youtube video, become anti-mine activist...

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Watch a 3 minute youtube video, become anti-mine activist...

There's no need for stabs here, this isn't a flame thread.

The video is rather long, and gives what a bit of evidence and facts for someone to make up their own mind on the idea.

[chamb0]

If you feel strongly about it, don't let others tell you you shouldn't. Thumbs down to Nikked's attitude. I think you can legitimately be passionate about things like this without necessarily having a formal qualification or experience in a related area, and I would encourage that, my advice though would be to always be careful about where you source information from to inform those questions. Search widely and from reputable primary sources etc if you can. Certainly not having a go at the video link you posted, I haven't even watched it. Just be aware that people on both sides of a debate can support their viewpoint with some sort of evidence, no matter how obscure the viewpoint and tenuous the evidence, if they search hard enough. The argument put forward is only as good as the evidence it is based on.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by chamb0

If you feel strongly about it, don't let others tell you you shouldn't be. I think you can legitimately be passionate about things like this without necessarily having a formal qualification or experience in a related area, and I would encourage that, my advice though would be to always be careful about where you source information from to inform those questions. Search widely and from reputable primary sources etc if you can. Certainly not having a go at the video link you posted, I haven't even watched it. Just be aware that people on both sides of a debate can support their viewpoint with some sort of evidence, no matter how obscure the viewpoint and tenuous the evidence, if they search hard enough. The argument put forward is only as good as the evidence it is based on.

Cheers, it's clear I'm getting a lot of negative feedback.

I've been to a couple draining pools and a couple wells, I've seen picture evidence of what happens, I've even sourced information from the CSG companies themselves who blindly admit to certain things such as the un-usable water that is wasted from their practices.

I don't have a degree is science, or law, but it's very obvious to see what it's doing and the effects simply from common sense, as most of the people on here seem to have which is why I ask here, I've sourced from all over the place, not wikipedia, as most would do which is unreliable 90% of the time.

[jpd80]

I left Gladstone because of what the CSG was doing to the town, all the people with good paying jobs
come to town but the locals who get nothing and wind up with $700/week rents pack up and leave,
the new comers and their families then get the jobs in retail and reap the benefits. My point is what
happens when the economic boom ends..and what happens to all the locals who left...

A lot of serious concerns with the original EIS were dismissed because the premier desperately needed
the $30 billion CSG to underpin her government's chances of reelection. A lot of the areas where well are sunk
are geologically sound but there are some that shouldn't be done and what the government is basically doing
is ceding authority and responsibility back to the miming companies to have the probity to do the right thing.
and remove their contaminated well water without damaging the water table, I'm no greenie but that's very dangerous.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I left Gladstone because of what the CSG was doing to the town, all the people with good paying jobs
come to town but the locals who get nothing and wind up with $700/week rents pack up and leave,
the new comers and their families then get the jobs in retail and reap the benefits. My point is what
happens when the economic boom ends..and what happens to all the locals who left...

A lot of serious concerns with the original EIS were dismissed because the premier desperately needed
the $30 billion CSG to underpin her government's chances of reelection. A lot of the areas where well are sunk
are geologically sound but there are some that shouldn't be done and what the government is basically doing
is ceding authority and responsibility back to the miming companies to have the probity to do the right thing.
and remove their contaminated well water without damaging the water table, I'm no greenie but that's very dangerous.

I'm no greenie either, but the massive effect it has on the environment, it's not worth it, the massive effect is has on the economy, not worth it either, the gas is actually being sold back to China who will then in turn sell it back to us...

There are so many problems with it, for the one good, we get a bit of money... The money isn't worth it at all.

[cheap]

A relative has a farm and is about to have 60 CSG wells on it (starting next month). He has done his research and he is concerned. Given a choice he would not want these things on his farm BUT he has no choice.

At the end of the day, the gas company has a legal right to come onto his property and drill for gas.

So, his take on the subject, get as much money from the CSG as he can. If you're on a farm these CSG wells are seen as a steady income stream.

However, if as a result of CSG, his farm or the environment gets screwed he will be seeking massive amounts of compensation from the government.

I think you will find his position similar to every farmer involved.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by cheap

A relative has a farm and is about to have 60 CSG wells on it (starting next month). He has done his research and he is concerned. Given a choice he would not want these things on his farm BUT he has no choice.

At the end of the day, the gas company has a legal right to come onto his property and drill for gas.

So, his take on the subject, get as much money from the CSG as he can. If you're on a farm these CSG wells are seen as a steady income stream.

However, if as a result of CSG, his farm or the environment gets screwed he will be seeking massive amounts of compensation from the government.

I think you will find his position similar to every farmer involved.

Yeah I've heard a lot of these stories, however the problem is that farmers are mis-informed, they do ask or attempt to demand to build these wells on your property, but you are actually legally allowed to say no, but be geared with a lawyer because they will try to get it from you.

Once you let them in, they do what they want.

[Jim Goose]

Those who support it.... doesnt affect you doesnt it?

Sadly people dont seem to understand that once the water table is contaminated it will NEVER be clean again.

Once we loose our farmlands.... we will NEVER be able to support ourselves and have to import everything.

Seemingly this country has turned into a mining at all costs and stuff all those opposed as some weirdo, commie, hippie, greenies...

OPEN YOUR EYES and youll find those protesting the loudest ARE THE FARMERS WHO ARE AFFECTED BY CSG

We are loosing a lot of our rich farming and grazing land to CSG and mining.
and NO ONE CARES other then the farmer and a few hippies?

Great forward planning and thinking...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Yeah I've heard a lot of these stories, however the problem is that farmers are mis-informed, they do ask or attempt to demand to build these wells on your property, but you are actually legally allowed to say no, but be geared with a lawyer because they will try to get it from you.

Once you let them in, they do what they want.

Actually no that is incorrect... in QLD the farmer HAS NO SAY

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Actually no that is incorrect... in QLD the farmer HAS NO SAY

Odd, here in NSW many farmers have said no and held their ground and now have no wells?

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Those who support it.... doesnt affect you doesnt it?

Sadly people dont seem to understand that once the water table is contaminated it will NEVER be clean again.

Once we loose our farmlands.... we will NEVER be able to support ourselves and have to import everything.

Seemingly this country has turned into a mining at all costs and stuff all those opposed as some weirdo, commie, hippie, greenies...

OPEN YOUR EYES and youll find those protesting the loudest ARE THE FARMERS WHO ARE AFFECTED BY CSG

We are loosing a lot of our rich farming and grazing land to CSG and mining.
and NO ONE CARES other then the farmer and a few hippies?

Great forward planning and thinking...

I don't own a farm, a family member does, I support anti-CSG because I can see the bleeding obvious effects from it.

If Australia was once a country free of ignorance and these sorts of problems, it's no longer today.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Actually no that is incorrect... in QLD the farmer HAS NO SAY

Well not until Monday anyway.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Ahh true, mate I can't say I have any background to coal seam gas mining or any other scientific degrees of any sort, however this is why I displayed the video which has people who do have this sort of background, and there is a scientist interview of the same thing.

You'll also find CSG companies do admit to parts that are rather obviously harmful.

As to max_torq, we could of had wind, solar, water energy all set up by now, why is there such a resistance to that?

Wind? Shame the majority of people do not live in the windy places.
Solar? Well maybe for 6-8 hours a day.
Water? You do remember the decades of drought we have just come out of and will go back into in about 5 or 6 years?

Uranium is good, we dig it up, use it and then store the leftovers in Canberra where it can't hurt anything important...

[cheap]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Yeah I've heard a lot of these stories, however the problem is that farmers are mis-informed, they do ask or attempt to demand to build these wells on your property, but you are actually legally allowed to say no, but be geared with a lawyer because they will try to get it from you.

Once you let them in, they do what they want.

The farmers I know are not mis-informed - quite the opposite.

If mounting a legal challenge is that easy, can you name one farmer who has successfully challenged and on what basis that challenge was upheld?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by jpd80

My point is what happens when the economic boom ends..and what happens to all the locals who left....

Excellent point.

Much of my work has me at every other Mine, Port, Well, Plant Substation, Power Station, Rail Yard etc etc in Queensland and I have serious concerns for what will be left after the boom.

And the boom I'm talking about isn't mining per se, it's all the construction projects.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well not until Monday anyway.....

I seems that everything in Qld will become guuuude again Saturday evening

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Scott

Excellent point.

Much of my work has me at every other Mine, Port, Well, Plant Substation, Power Station, Rail Yard etc etc in Queensland and I have serious concerns for what will be left after the boom.

And the boom I'm talking about isn't mining per se, it's all the construction projects.

Luckily there is another side to this rather then just an environmental problem, gives reason to those who don't believe in the environmental side to have a say about their future..

Originally Posted by flappist

Wind? Shame the majority of people do not live in the windy places.
Solar? Well maybe for 6-8 hours a day.
Water? You do remember the decades of drought we have just come out of and will go back into in about 5 or 6 years?

Uranium is good, we dig it up, use it and then store the leftovers in Canberra where it can't hurt anything important...

Here's the problem all excess power is stored, so where or not it's not sunny for a couple days or a week the Government has stores, assuming they do it how it's done in other parts of the world.

Water can be done artificially without any environmental damage and basically immune to drought, basically.

Wind? there is tonnes of wind to be had in Australia, if there's not there's still the two other options, all 3 options would have us fine, as there would be enough power generated...

Even if money was invested into Nuclear Energy and safer ways of doing it, Nuclear does not harm the environment given it does not leave the plant.

Originally Posted by cheap

The farmers I know are not mis-informed - quite the opposite.

If mounting a legal challenge is that easy, can you name one farmer who has successfully challenged and on what basis that challenge was upheld?

Mate if I can find evidence of the guys around here I'll be sure to give you the heads up.

But in the mean time there is a lawyer who is throwing to book at these people and helping farmers stop this sort of stuff going onto their land.

All in all if they could completely and utterly go on your land without permission they wouldn't offer compensation.

[green_doctor]

I have a science degree and several relatives who work in the coal mining industry, both management and workers and none of us support CSG. The truth is that the mining companies simply do not know what the long term effects the the environment of disturbing large bodies of underground water will have. There was a case last year where a massive underground water pocket was accidentally drilled into by a mining company up in the blue mountains, NSW and most experts have agreed that the water there is now likely to never be replenished. I am not outright against the process as a concept but the mining companies who are operating the wells freely admit they have no idea what the effect of their processes and the chemicals they use will be but from what I understand, they don't care. When a well runs dry, they simply fill in a small hole at the surface and move on, unlike other mining projects which by their nature are forced to consult and in some way co-exist with with the local communities.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Scott

Excellent point.

Much of my work has me at every other Mine, Port, Well, Plant Substation, Power Station, Rail Yard etc etc in Queensland and I have serious concerns for what will be left after the boom.

And the boom I'm talking about isn't mining per se, it's all the construction projects.

Yes, the boom is all due to construction, once the projects are all built, the circus moves on
and mechanisation does most of the digging and transport, so who really benefits after that?
The exporters and of course the government reaping (raping?) the benefits through tax and royalties.

[irish2]

Coal seam gas mining has been going on for 20 years in Australia. Why the big fraccas now?