Timing belt replacement.

AlanD · 12-03-2018, 07:48 AM

Hi all,

Firstly, Thanks to Cobrin for the excellent write up about timing belt replacement.

Secondly, It's convinced me that it's best left to someone else

Which brings up the question: What is the typical cost for this job?

The MA has just gone through the 10 year mark - I think that this is a trigger, but it has only been in daily use since we bought it in October 2009 and a little over 100,000km in that time - perhaps an inspection first.

So if there are members who have had this done and are willing to share cost experience I'll be grateful. I'll bet I can separate the dealer jobs from the independents if I get a few replies.

Thanks in advance

cobrin · 12-03-2018, 08:59 AM

To set the base price from Ford:

Standard Payment Price $330

The maximum price for your 150,000 kms (10 years) standard service is: $1185

Additional Service Items

$80 Brake Fluid Replacement ( every 2 Years )
$115 Coolant replacement ( every 10 Years )
$660 Timing Belt and/or DriveBelt ( every 10 Years or 240,000 Kms ).
no mention of water pump, idler bearings, tensioner or front main oil seal. Consider the auxiliary drive belt too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me: DIY

AUD$99 Timing belt kit + water pump +Del AU$175 (+13 other items)
inc. wp gasket,idler bearing,tensioner,front main oil seal and new cranshaft retainer bolt.
AUD$57 Diesel Timing Set Tools

AUD$60 Nulon HD Diesel Long Life Coolant

rondeo · 16-03-2018, 08:10 PM

Prices are rubbery.

Between $190 or so and $1200, for belt kit with water pump, parts only.
Cheapest is Gates from UK, Ford AUS the the most expensive.
Done by a Ford dealer is about $1500, NO WATER PUMP.

What's puzzles me is the huge difference in the cost of parts.

Are Ford parts in AUS really worth 10X the cost?

cobrin · 16-03-2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondeo

Prices are rubbery.

Between $190 or so and $1200, for belt kit with water pump, parts only.
Cheapest is Gates from UK, Ford AUS the the most expensive.
Done by a Ford dealer is about $1500, NO WATER PUMP.

What's puzzles me is the huge difference in the cost of parts.

Are Ford parts in AUS really worth 10X the cost?

hell no, when doing my suspension and finding out a strut top bearing had collapsed Ford wanted $100ea, in the UK they're GBP$12.....and I needed two made my blood boil, but what can ya do.

I just know the timing belt I did with everything else, was dirt cheap and that's my pay back.

bananasnblow · 19-03-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondeo

Prices are rubbery.

Between $190 or so and $1200, for belt kit with water pump, parts only.
Cheapest is Gates from UK, Ford AUS the the most expensive.
Done by a Ford dealer is about $1500, NO WATER PUMP.

What's puzzles me is the huge difference in the cost of parts.

Are Ford parts in AUS really worth 10X the cost?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gates-Ti...19.m1438.l2649

rondeo · 19-03-2018, 04:09 PM

Cheapest I found:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GATES-KP...4383.l4275.c10

Shipping cost on many UK suppliers is a a flat $199 AUD. This one is supposedly $8.50, so I ordered that one.

Another one I looked at had a sensible shipping cost based on the weight of the consignment. They weigh it and email the cost of shipping before checkout.

rondeo · 20-03-2018, 06:32 PM

I'm fixing my COX ride on mower, I expect the timing belt on Mondeo to be easier. So far I've managed to extract a sheared off bolt, found replacement belts which have self destructed and a rubber/plastic damper which completely disappeared.

I'm not sure which I enjoy riding the most, the mower or the Mondeo.

rondeo · 07-10-2018, 05:57 PM

Timing belt renewal on my 2011 mc TDCi:

Removing/displacing starter motor in needed to lock flywheel. On MC removal of lower intake manifold is needed to access starter motor. Looks like egr coolant hose and oil dipstick as well, the dipstick at least having migrated from right to left or left right from MA to MC. MA were on the other side.

I got interested in the blue stuff on the new crankshaft bolt. As far as I can tell by looking at it through a microscope, it has tiny glass beads. Googling, these break and catalyse a chemical reaction in the threadlocking substance, which according to a colour code might be an epoxy stuff, ie, light blue.
To soften this threadlocker, if it be needed, the temperature of the bolt should be taken to about 150 deg C.

The bolt is torqued to stretch at 60 degrees of rotatation, and wonder if heating it might make it easier to undo on that account.

Meanwhile I found a transmission cooler hose leaking, and the rear crankshaft seal leaking a bit. 200000km. I bet that would cost a lot, so let it drip. No other big problems though, so happy really, apart from the fact the timing chain lasted 500,000 km plus on my Falcon. I did have to re fuel-twice as often though.

rondeo · 01-11-2018, 03:23 PM

Doing my 2nd MY2011 MC TDCi:

No need to remove engine mount, dipstick etc, just the starter motor.

This may be a fuel efficient engine, but man hours of maintainance is the price. Still, I like halving servo visits at 1200km per tank, and the grunt.

If Ford is to survive, open the bonnet to the human hand and stop those silly Ranger ads.

rondeo · 09-11-2018, 06:02 PM

I've done my second timing belt now. I hadn't done one before, so a bit of angst of the unknown. The first took 14 days and the second 5. Some thoughts and opinions which might assist DIY enthusiasts:

Best to replace timing belt + tensioner + idler, aux belt + tensioner + idler and water pump. At 180000km the second car's belts, water pump and crank seal all showed signs of age. Still, depends on driving conditions I guess.

The water pump in the Gates kit was UK was cheap but I didn't like the look of the gasket so got a pump from Ford which comes with a rubber coated metal gasket.

Second time round I just got all the parts from Ford, about $880 all up.

I suppose the most important thing I learned was about timing belt tensioning. In short; do not adjust the tensioner unless the crankshaft pulley is free to rotate on the crankshaft.

There's a tensioned and an non-tensioned side to the timing belt.
The tensioned side is the one with the tensioner, the other side goes from the cam pulley to the crank, and has no tensioning device. For the tensioner to apply an even tension to the whole belt, it follows that the crank pulley must be free to rotate during the tensioning, i.e. it must be loose.

The oil seal I mentioned before.

The only remaining issue, or non issue if you like, is whether or not to use a rattle gun on the crank bolt. The Sealey locking tool blurb forbids it, as does the Ford Focus ws manual, but Alan Howatt on youtube reckons its great.

If any other die hard DIYers are thinking of taking it on, I'd say do it, but allow plenty of time.

NZ XR6 · 15-11-2018, 04:48 AM

What mileage are you meant to change it at?

bundybear75 · 15-11-2018, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

What mileage are you meant to change it at?

Pretty sure its 200K km, so generally done at the 195K service to match up with the 15K service intervals.

A mate of mine who used to be a Ford mechanic said he would do it every 100K but I'm thinking of going out to 390K km for the next one (if it makes it lol)

NZ XR6 · 15-11-2018, 06:30 AM

The UK Haynes manual says 100,000 km and the NZ service book has 125,000 km!

bundybear75 · 15-11-2018, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

The UK Haynes manual says 100,000 km and the NZ service book has 125,000 km!

Petrol or Diesel? I'll double check my book this afternoon but I'm sure the diesel is 200K

cobrin · 15-11-2018, 10:47 AM

my '09 2L tdci haynes suggests 240K kms or 10yrs, as does the ford service guide booklet.

NZ XR6 · 16-11-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrin

my '09 2L tdci haynes suggests 240K kms or 10yrs, as does the ford service guide booklet.

That's weird, I have the UK manual for the 07 - 12 and it states 62,500 miles for the diesel cambelt.

Bolly47 · 14-11-2023, 08:37 PM

[

If Ford is to survive, open the bonnet to the human hand and stop those silly Ranger ads.

i wouldnt buy Silly Ranger as they are rubbish when reach 150,000km need expenives repair or sell it because the cost of repairing become worthless car

goz007 · 29-11-2023, 05:16 PM

Checked the factory books in a 2017 Mondeo diesel today & Ford states 10years or 150k for the timing belt replacement

goz007 · 29-11-2023, 05:17 PM

Does anyone have access to the timing tools required to do the job or a link for some decent tools to buy?

cobrin · 29-11-2023, 10:09 PM

this is essentially what I used to lock the engine. I found my brand was Sealey.

no idea how much this would cost but you can find essentially the same thing on ebay

https://www.endeavourtools.com.au/ET...jlr-timing-kit

goz007 · 30-11-2023, 04:30 AM

Cheers Corbin, looks good.

AlanM · 07-02-2024, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz007

Checked the factory books in a 2017 Mondeo diesel today & Ford states 10years or 150k for the timing belt replacement

Just did the timing belt on the 2016 TDCI, at 178,000 km.

The actual belt looked fine, (I guess they always do until they break) but the water pump had spun it's impeller. In a big way!

I didn't lock the crankshaft, just locked the camshaft then marked the crankshaft at one of the bellhousing drain holes.

Seems to have done the trick OK, the car's running great now.

goz007 · 07-02-2024, 10:37 PM

Hello Alan thanks for the reply, a few questions if I may, did u have to heat the crank bolt to remove it?(from what I've seen the crank pulley needs to come off if so did u replace crank bolt & what did u use to hold crank to re-tension?) With the water pump being in such bad shape was the car running hot or having temperature fluctuating? Was there anything else u needed to change such as cam seals or cam chains or front crank seal? How much did the belt kit cost(did u get a belt & new tensioner, tensioner bolt)& what brand belt did u use? (I believe OEM belt is Gates)

AlanM · 08-02-2024, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz007

Hello Alan thanks for the reply, a few questions if I may, did u have to heat the crank bolt to remove it?(from what I've seen the crank pulley needs to come off if so did u replace crank bolt & what did u use to hold crank to re-tension?) With the water pump being in such bad shape was the car running hot or having temperature fluctuating? Was there anything else u needed to change such as cam seals or cam chains or front crank seal? How much did the belt kit cost(did u get a belt & new tensioner, tensioner bolt)& what brand belt did u use? (I believe OEM belt is Gates)

Hi, I got the belt kit from Autobarn, it's a Dayco kit and came with a new bolt, seals for the crankshaft and camshaft, tensioner and idler. Cost $430. I looked on ebay but there really wasn't much there to suit, and not much difference in price. Plus I was in a hurry and Autobarn said I'd have it in two days.

Yes, the car was overheating. The pump really wasn't working at all, so the engine would overheat, go into limp mode, yet the temp guage showed 60 degrees.

I used a heat gun to heat the bolt to about 120c, and a cordless rattle gun to remove the bolt. The crank seal and cam seal were good, so I left them alone.

I tighted the bolt with the rattle gun, and checked it with a breaker bar. I just used the 8mm drill bit I used to lock the cam to hold it all while tightening up.

Before and after tightening I checked the paint mark on the flywheel against the bellhousing.

Citroënbender · 08-02-2024, 08:55 AM

If you don’t get a persistent cam angle sensor fault coming up, your paint mark was good enough.

AlanM · 08-02-2024, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If you don’t get a persistent cam angle sensor fault coming up, your paint mark was good enough.

Only driven about 40 km since, to get a roadworthyness certificate, so far so good.

goz007 · 08-02-2024, 05:28 PM

Sounds like its going ok ,so should be fine(although there is an interesting thread-old thread in the SZ forum were anthor member did as u did & chased fault codes for months as he was a tooth out on his cam timing & also anthor interesting one were anthor member did the same & lost his engine.....valves into pistons, broke a cam gear) although from what I've read & also watching anthor one of Taxi mechanic Alan's utubes(I like the taxi mechanic.....but he is a little ruff for me, but he's good value & has a lot of interesting & informative clips-im still watching him even though he's not fixing Mondeos any more & moved to the Philippine) it looks like the Mondeo engine is a little more forgiving & just breaks rocker arms....as for me i will buy a similar kit to which cobrin has listed & lock the crank...... I'm a little OCD with bolt tensions & i also feel it's a little to much strain to put the cam gear under....but anyway each to there own & fair play to u that its worked without issues(I believe if something was wrong it would of shown up in your 40ks) as I said previously thanks for your comments it's much appreciated 👍

goz007 · 08-02-2024, 05:33 PM

Hey AlanM any chance u have part numbers for the timing kit & the water pump? Also before I go to far is yours an MD? If not disregard the part No request (although they could be useful for other members)

AlanM · 08-02-2024, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz007

Sounds like its going ok ,so should be fine(although there is an interesting thread-old thread in the SZ forum were anthor member did as u did & chased fault codes for months as he was a tooth out on his cam timing & also anthor interesting one were anthor member did the same & lost his engine.....valves into pistons, broke a cam gear) although from what I've read & also watching anthor one of Taxi mechanic Alan's utubes(I like the taxi mechanic.....but he is a little ruff for me, but he's good value & has a lot of interesting & informative clips-im still watching him even though he's not fixing Mondeos any more & moved to the Philippine) it looks like the Mondeo engine is a little more forgiving & just breaks rocker arms....as for me i will buy a similar kit to which cobrin has listed & lock the crank...... I'm a little OCD with bolt tensions & i also feel it's a little to much strain to put the cam gear under....but anyway each to there own & fair play to u that its worked without issues(I believe if something was wrong it would of shown up in your 40ks) as I said previously thanks for your comments it's much appreciated 👍

I honestly can't see how it would be possible to be a tooth out if you lock the camshaft and mark the crank before starting, then make sure the marks still line up once the new belt is installed and tensioned and the crankshaft pulley bolt is torqued up.

If you were out by a whole tooth the paint mark on the flywheel would be nowhere to be seen. The keyway on the crank timing gear does allow a few degrees of leeway, and I guess it's possible the crankshaft could turn by that amount relative to the gear as you tighten the bolt, but your paint marks would show that up too.

But if the threads are clean (it was a new bolt and locktight)
that shouldn't happen anyway.

This was the fourth timing belt I've installed, 3 of them on 2.0 TDCI Mondeos, and this method has always worked fine.

AlanM · 08-02-2024, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz007

Hey AlanM any chance u have part numbers for the timing kit & the water pump? Also before I go to far is yours an MD? If not disregard the part No request (although they could be useful for other members)

Yep, it's an MD. Timing belt kits are cheaper and easier to find for the MC! (Although the only difference is the water pump.)

I ordered it in person at Autobarn, they wouldn't accept CC payment by phone. There's no kit (belt rollers and water pump) listed on their website.

I'll have to see if the receipt is in the box with the old parts and see if it has a part number.

BTW, for a laugh, check out Repco's price!
It's about $950 for the kit with water pump, and about $400 for the belt and roller kit without the water pump.

That makes it a pretty exxy water pump!