easiest way to remove or bypass speed limiters on au falcons

[au1tonner]

i have 2 au falcons and i want to remove or bypass the speed limiters on them one is a s1 forte auto and the other is a s2 xls ute on dedicated gas manual any ideas or advice would be helpful as i kno the sedan tops out at 180 and wont go any further unless i can remove or bypass the limiter and the reason i want to do this is i want to do some track work with them.

[BOTTLEDUP]

Not a build related question...

I believe the speed limiter can only be removed by retuning the ECU. The ute has the speed limiter to protect the long tailshaft, remove or raise the limit at your own risk.

[auIILTD]

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

Not a build related question...

I believe the speed limiter can only be removed by retuning the ECU. The ute has the speed limiter to protect the long tailshaft, remove or raise the limit at your own risk.

Correct Dave - on both accounts. Speed limiter can be removed by having it retuned - quite an expensive workaround (unless you have a Quarterhorse ). The LWB cars (Utes, Wagons and Fairlane/LTD) are limited to 180kph due to the longer tailshaft. Longer tailshafts at high rpm are more prone to harmonics caused by flexing of the tailshaft. When they break free, it tends to take the back half of the gear box with it. Not pretty! I have heard of this happening to one friend on a dyno.

I would leave the ute, but for the Forte on the track only, I would disconnect the speedo drive gear electronically from the gearbox. That may work as you really do not need a speedo on the track. I, from personal experience on a dyno can confirm 100% the speed limiter is triggered by the speedo gear from the gearbox.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Stu

[dusty86]

My xr6 never had a speed limiter?

[auIILTD]

Originally Posted by dusty86

My xr6 never had a speed limiter?

XR6 Sedan or ute? XRs in the sedan variety did not have speed limiters as they do not fulfil the requirements for a speed limiter as I have listed above.

We have learnt though, that when it came to Ford and the AUs, there are no set rules, so it is possible to find some with or without.

Stu

[rmack]

I would disconnect the speedo drive gear electronically from the gearbox.

Being an auto won't this throw the box into limp?

[auIILTD]

Originally Posted by rmack

Being an auto won't this throw the box into limp?

Possibly, possibly not. When tuning the transmission side of the ECU, one of the inputs is tailshaft speed. This is independant of the speedo gear feedback to the ecu. I know this, because the transmission shift points in my tune stayed with the tailshaft revolutions rather than speed after I changed my diff ratio (and had not changed my speedo gear). The ECU knows the tailshaft speed from the revs and gears. I am yet to determine how the speedo speed and the calculated speed differ (Axle ratio in my tune is still set to 3.23, despite me having a 3.45 diff) AXRATIO of 3.45 threw out my speed feed to my inbuilt satnav trip computer, but not my speedo???

Confused?

This is my experience with my V8 ECU. It may not necissarly apply to all.

I did say that disconnecting the speedo gear electronically MAY work and it was worth a try. I would be interested, based on my experience with the ECU to hear actual feedback from someone who has tried it.

Cheers
Stu

[XRGhia]

I've tried it on an AU6, and it'll shift hard into 2nd and 3rd, but once it's in 3rd gear, it stays there (LHM)... I was able to manually gear down though into 2nd and 1st without an issue...

[EvilChief]

XRs had speed limiters, they were set to 250kph.

Speed limiter removal can only be done properly through ecu alteration, there is a couple of ways around it:

1. Fit a chip with a raised speed limiter setting (ie J3 etc)
2. Fit a XR ECU
3. Get Ford to reflash your ECU to XR spec

I have done all of the above for various reasons including removing speed limiters.

As for tailshaft, it is correct the longer tailshafts are not balanced as well, I changed mine to steel ones with balancing exceeding the expected rpm limit at the set speed limit (diff ratio dependent etc)

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by XRGhia

I've tried it on an AU6, and it'll shift hard into 2nd and 3rd, but once it's in 3rd gear, it stays there (LHM)... I was able to manually gear down though into 2nd and 1st without an issue...

Wouldnt be lhm if you can manually shift into 1st and 2nd,limp home mode locks it in third gear no matter what you do as a self preservation feature or the trans.

[Uncle_Ken]

Well I bypassed my speed limter.
Cost $10,000 but now she has her own car.
Marked improvment in the daily drive.
UK

[Sox]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

1. Fit a chip with a raised speed limiter setting (ie J3 etc)
2. Fit a XR ECU
3. Get Ford to reflash your ECU to XR spec

I have done all of the above for various reasons including removing speed limiters.

Steady on there...

Are you saying a bog standard pov AU ECU can be simply flashed by Ford to become a fully fledged u beaut XR ECU?

[XRGhia]

^^^ I'm curious about the same thing....

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

Wouldnt be lhm if you can manually shift into 1st and 2nd,limp home mode locks it in third gear no matter what you do as a self preservation feature or the trans.

I've had it in LHM before, both in the Fairlane, and my Wagon (when it was auto), and I haven't had an issue with gearing it down manually. Just when it gears up, it can hit rev limiter before it'll want to do anything, then it'll just use full line pressure and slam into 2nd.

[FGII-XR6]

the XR has the alloy tailshaft and does not require a limiter. remove the limiter on the steel tailshaft and you risk the tailshaft self destructing at high speed not good.
if you are hell bent on self destruction you can have it flashed out as mentioned above or fit this
disconnecting the speedo drive on an auto will result in the car going into limp home mode

[robbyj]

You can wire in a module to bypass the speed limiter.

These are available from http://www.shiftkits.com.au/

Now as others have said, use at your own risk.

Out of curiosity, which track are you thinking of playing around on?
I have never hit the limiter on Winton.

[Mechan1k]

And Factory EGAS may not have one .... they don't have a spark cut rev limiter (for obvious reasons).

Plus I doubt a factory EGAS would even be able to get to 180km/h anyway.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Sox

Steady on there...

Are you saying a bog standard pov AU ECU can be simply flashed by Ford to become a fully fledged u beaut XR ECU?

that is correct

[Sox]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

that is correct

Well I'll be buggered...

How long has this been known for?

What do they generally charge?

[auIILTD]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

that is correct

I will go out on a limb here and say that this is not necessarily true. From my tuning experience, some ECUs have to stay have to stay within their original designated 'Family'.

For example, a series 1 ECU, to the best of my knowledge cannot be flashed with a S2/3 tune or visa versa.

My advice, would be to be careful at which ECU you are flashing with which tune. Assuming it works, there are many differences between models and tunes. For example, I would not flash a 200kw ute ECU with a 220kw tune. The 200kw cam is much more aggressive than the 220kw one (despite the lesser power). The wrong tune could/will have a devastating impact.

I agree with comments above, be wary of removing speed limiters on cars that had them in place originally for good reason.

Cheers
Stu

[robbyj]

i reckon try racing them, and if you actually hit the limiter, and its a problem, then worry about it. Or maybe build the AU as a designated race car, rather then just chop the wires.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Plus I doubt a factory EGAS would even be able to get to 180km/h anyway.

don't bet on it

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by auIILTD

I will go out on a limb here and say that this is not necessarily true. From my tuning experience, some ECUs have to stay have to stay within their original designated 'Family'.

For example, a series 1 ECU, to the best of my knowledge cannot be flashed with a S2/3 tune or visa versa.

My advice, would be to be careful at which ECU you are flashing with which tune. Assuming it works, there are many differences between models and tunes. For example, I would not flash a 200kw ute ECU with a 220kw tune. The 200kw cam is much more aggressive than the 220kw one (despite the lesser power). The wrong tune could/will have a devastating impact.

I agree with comments above, be wary of removing speed limiters on cars that had them in place originally for good reason.

Cheers
Stu

I cannot comment on the V8 relfashed, as I never had an a povo V8 to play with (they all were XRs to begin with).

I only got 6cyl ECUs reflashed, main for the speed limiter removal and the adaptive shift pattern of the gearbox.

The cams between XR6 and povo6 were the same in the AUs, so it had only very little impact, however the self learning of the ECU was/is very powerful in the EECV.

Without knowing the distinct differences in tune between the individual XR8 tunes, I would suspect that the ECU will be able to learn fairly effectively the differences (both on the fuel and ignition side).

AULTD: you are correct thou, when re-flashing the program has to be kept within the same family, based on the ECU Code (which of course in turn relates to the year model and spec).

Back in the old days (we are talking early 2000s) it cost me $120 to get an ECU flashed. I am not sure if and which dealerships still have the ability to do this, just a matter of asking I suppose. Its only a matter of uploading a new strategy to the EPROM through the Datacan.

Edit: Also AU1 vs AU2/3 ECUs have the hickup of smartlock vs smartshield ....

[auIILTD]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

however the self learning of the ECU was/is very powerful in the EECV.

Yes it is, but it does have limitations on how far it can 'adapt'! It is far from ideal to rely on adaptive learning to correct a bad or incorrect tune.

Cheers
Stu

[Sox]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

I cannot comment on the V8 relfashed, as I never had an a povo V8 to play with (they all were XRs to begin with).

I only got 6cyl ECUs reflashed, main for the speed limiter removal and the adaptive shift pattern of the gearbox.

The cams between XR6 and povo6 were the same in the AUs, so it had only very little impact, however the self learning of the ECU was/is very powerful in the EECV.

Without knowing the distinct differences in tune between the individual XR8 tunes, I would suspect that the ECU will be able to learn fairly effectively the differences (both on the fuel and ignition side).

AULTD: you are correct thou, when re-flashing the program has to be kept within the same family, based on the ECU Code (which of course in turn relates to the year model and spec).

Back in the old days (we are talking early 2000s) it cost me $120 to get an ECU flashed. I am not sure if and which dealerships still have the ability to do this, just a matter of asking I suppose. Its only a matter of uploading a new strategy to the EPROM through the Datacan.

Edit: Also AU1 vs AU2/3 ECUs have the hickup of smartlock vs smartshield ....

Interesting.

As far as I'm aware, XR6 cams have 1mm more lift than the povo I6's.
I haven't actually measured this, but all literature says so.

As for the learning, I'd suspect they can adapt quite well with different cams and mods.

Many moons ago, my XH had a JMM DEV5 package (big lift cam, head porting, chamber work, etc) - AFR's were spot on, and it made good power from idle to cutout. All from a standard XR ECU.

I might have a yarn to the local Ford dude this week.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by auIILTD

I will go out on a limb here and say that this is not necessarily true. From my tuning experience, some ECUs have to stay have to stay within their original designated 'Family'.

For example, a series 1 ECU, to the best of my knowledge cannot be flashed with a S2/3 tune or visa versa.

That would be mainly due to smartlock/smartshield difference.
Otherwise that, the parameters would be very similar.

My advice, would be to be careful at which ECU you are flashing with which tune. Assuming it works, there are many differences between models and tunes. For example, I would not flash a 200kw ute ECU with a 220kw tune. The 200kw cam is much more aggressive than the 220kw one (despite the lesser power). The wrong tune could/will have a devastating impact.

I'd put money on there not much difference at all between tunes on the 200/220 ECU's.
I reckon you'd barely notice the difference.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Sox

That would be mainly due to smartlock/smartshield difference.
Otherwise that, the parameters would be very similar.

I'd put money on there not much difference at all between tunes on the 200/220 ECU's.
I reckon you'd barely notice the difference.

I would agree there

Originally Posted by auIILTD

Yes it is, but it does have limitations on how far it can 'adapt'! It is far from ideal to rely on adaptive learning to correct a bad or incorrect tune.

Cheers
Stu

Absolutely, however I was impressed with my povo pack ECU the other day, which happily adapted to 42lb injectors without a tune. took only around 50km to pull the AFRs back up to an acceptable level.

Originally Posted by Sox

Interesting.

As far as I'm aware, XR6 cams have 1mm more lift than the povo I6's.
I haven't actually measured this, but all literature says so.

As for the learning, I'd suspect they can adapt quite well with different cams and mods.

Many moons ago, my XH had a JMM DEV5 package (big lift cam, head porting, chamber work, etc) - AFR's were spot on, and it made good power from idle to cutout. All from a standard XR ECU.

I might have a yarn to the local Ford dude this week.

Interesting, I know the pre-AU XRs had different cams, wasn't aware that AU XR cams were different. I never noticed any difference on the dyno or street drive at all. I ran my old Crow Cam S3, with the usual head work etc etc with an XR ECU and it ran very well to say the least (better than with a chip, which ended up in the bin).

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

don't bet on it

It may reach it .... but it'd have to be dead flat ... or at least downhill
I've had the old AUII EGAS ute up there ... and it took a bit to hit the "old" 100.

The mixer ring really holds it up at the top end.

After market cam helps a bit as I did make more top end power (but not that much) ... EGAS was more low-mid range torque friendly.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

Interesting, I know the pre-AU XRs had different cams, wasn't aware that AU XR cams were different. I never noticed any difference on the dyno or street drive at all. I ran my old Crow Cam S3, with the usual head work etc etc with an XR ECU and it ran very well to say the least (better than with a chip, which ended up in the bin).

I only did a cam swap around 6 months ago or so, I could kick myself in the head for not taking some measurements of the cams.

Power wise I can't say as I did the Tickford head at the same time, plus some minor porting and chamber work (and XR ECU).

Power obviously improved with all that, but it certainly wasn't as dramatic as I hoped.
It was only until I fitted a vernier gear and advanced it 4deg did it come alive.

From what you said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the cams were the same, but I have the specs in 2 different workshop manuals, and it was printed in most rags at the time.

[EvilChief]

Originally Posted by Sox

I only did a cam swap around 6 months ago or so, I could kick myself in the head for not taking some measurements of the cams.

Power wise I can't say as I did the Tickford head at the same time, plus some minor porting and chamber work (and XR ECU).

Power obviously improved with all that, but it certainly wasn't as dramatic as I hoped.
It was only until I fitted a vernier gear and advanced it 4deg did it come alive.

From what you said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the cams were the same, but I have the specs in 2 different workshop manuals, and it was printed in most rags at the time.

cool sounds good to me ... I do believe thou that the "tune" between the stocko may still be the same apart from gbox and speed limit.

[KeegsRTVwags]

I would be very interested to know what track you plan on hitting over 180kph in an AU? I took my ute to sandown and it limited on the back straight right at the braking point anyway so wasn’t an issue, and took my fiesta ST there too and got like 191, then at Phillip island in the ST I got 202, on the fastest circuit in Australia. Have you got any work done to the mighty old intech or is it a stock as a rock gasser?

As one bloke up above said it is far better to work on your driving before going for speed. And you’ll quickly find how much more fun it is going through a corner fast than it is hitting huge speed in a straight line.

All that being said, I wouldn’t mine delimiting my ute as I’m looking to turn it a bit more track car direction than road car and was thinking if a two piece tailshaft out of a sedan could be customised to fit. Pretty sure under wagons I’ve seen there’s a mounting point for a centre bearing.