Not worth the risk...

4Vman · 11-11-2008, 12:48 PM

Next time you're thinking of racing someone or doing something stupid in a car reflect on this case..
I'll preface it by saying i know the offender personally, he's a decent, mild mannered shy young man who's made some very poor decisions behind the wheel of a car, but id call him a friend.
I make no excuses for him, this case has been tried 3 times over a period of 6 years due to errors and availability of people involved.. its taken a massive toll on everyone from the victims family, to him and his family due to the length of time its dragged out...
I hope people see the ease with which you can ruin not only other people's lives but your own, and the living nightmare that's taken 6 years to unfold....

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...00-661,00.html

TadKa · 11-11-2008, 12:58 PM

very sad story for everyone. I know a guy that ended up in a similar way. He was racing a car in Hobart cbd on his l's. ran a red. killed another driver and his friend in the car will be a vegetable for life.

burnz · 11-11-2008, 01:01 PM

having prior's won't help.

4Vman · 11-11-2008, 01:02 PM

How easily your life can change through just stupidity.. 108 in a 70 zone, loose control, hit a tree and kill your best mate.
Your court case drags on for over 6 years, then you go to jail for 5 1/2 years.. but you cant ever change the fact that you killed your best friend..

burnz · 11-11-2008, 01:05 PM

you could say 11.5 yrs of punishment, not good.

Stefan · 11-11-2008, 01:16 PM

Very sad case Norm, and what is sadder, we have probably all driven like tools when we were young, hell I've probably done alot worse than that in terms of speeding. But got away with ist in one way or another.

The problem is we ALL roll the dice, when overtaking a semi or giving it a quick squirt here and there, but don't realise how badly things can turn out if things just go a little wrong.

My mate did 6 months jail for nearly killing me in an accident.

None of us are angels, some are just luckier than others.

4Vman · 11-11-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Very sad case Norm, and what is sadder, we have probably all driven like tools when we were young, hell I've probably done alot worse than that in terms of speeding. But got away with ist in one way or another.

The problem is we ALL roll the dice, when overtaking a semi or giving it a quick squirt here and there, but don't realise how badly things can turn out if things just go a little wrong.

My mate did 6 months jail for nearly killing me in an accident.

None of us are angels, some are just luckier than others.

How very true..

I know i get on my high horse about road safety.. but this is one of the reasons why, along with loosing 3 friends over a 10 year period, not one of them over 24 years of age, all from their own acts of stupidity, or killed by other people's acts of stupidity... all dearly missed.

FPV GT40 · 11-11-2008, 02:03 PM

Interesting read.....but I recon he got off easy....what about the family.....I have been there when the 2 am phone call comes from the police/hospital and what the mothers reaction is at the time when told her son was in an MVA and is in coma in critical condition.....not good.....

Less than 3 years ago I sat on the side of the road watching a mate bleed to death in the gutter in front of his wife after having been run off the road on his bike by a careless driver....something you never forget....then looking at his 3 childrens faces at the funeral.......very sad, I often still think about it....

Hillbilly F Truck · 11-11-2008, 02:09 PM

Had a story on 60 minutes (i think ) on getting message across to young drivers. Life teaches the hardest lessons.

seduced_xr · 11-11-2008, 02:19 PM

tragic. unfortunatelly they just dont think its going to happen to them, its not like they intentionally go out to speed and crash but thats just wat happens. im an L driver myself i spend most of my time in an XR6 falcon which of course means every commodore hoon wants to drag you its just not worth the risk and if you have to do it wait till your not carrying passengers

XR6_661 · 11-11-2008, 02:19 PM

Scares the crap out of you as a young driver. Well, me at least.

If I ever do stupid stuff in a car, which we are all guilty of. I'll always do it by myself and on a road with very little car and pedestrian traffic

I could live with losing my license, getting fined, car confiscated, whatever. I couldn't live with myself knowing someone died because of my stupid behaviour.

AndrewR_AUII · 11-11-2008, 02:27 PM

May seem like fun and an adrenaline rush at the time, but this case shows just how quickly and tragically things can go seriously wrong.

MAD · 11-11-2008, 02:48 PM

Its a terrible loss to the family of the young man killed in this incident. My thoughts go out to them.

Its clearly not a one-off bad decision leading to a tragic ending, meaning much less sympathy from me.
Prior street racing.... getting caught once is generally not the first time you've done it.
He didnt learn his lesson with the fines and license suspension, now he will... Now he's got 5 1/2 years to think about it.
Maybe when he gets out he'll look beyond the instant of "fun" to see what could possibly go wrong, and what the consequences will be, and adjust the attitude accordingly.

TZENU · 11-11-2008, 02:55 PM

Certainly puts things into perspective.... And proof that all it takes is one misjudgement and you can pay for it for the rest of your life..

TOM-CAT · 11-11-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_661

Scares the crap out of you as a young driver. Well, me at least.

If I ever do stupid stuff in a car, which we are all guilty of. I'll always do it by myself and on a road with very little car and pedestrian traffic

I could live with losing my license, getting fined, car confiscated, whatever. I couldn't live with myself knowing someone died because of my stupid behaviour.

agree 100% with you mate.

losing a friend is hard enough, but if it was my fault i dunno how i could handle it.

Daymoe · 11-11-2008, 05:01 PM

During early 2000, my highschool had a large amount of car related deaths, one involving a bus but that was different than being an idiot inside a car.

Anyways, my English teacher always tells us to be careful when we're driving and think first before we act stupid.

4Vman · 11-11-2008, 05:40 PM

Its difficult to understand what's an appropriate punishment for this, to some 5 1/2 years seems extreme, to others it seems too lenient.
Having watched how this kid has coped (or to be more accurate hasn't....) with the guilt of killing his best friend and how he's completely withdrawn from friends, family and society on top of the extended protracted nature of his court case its hard not to feel he's already paying for this.
Im not sure what the jail sentence will do other than give the grieving family some comfort of justice by maintaining the punishment.
It certainly wont teach him a lesson he's hasn't already learnt though...

**redxm** · 11-11-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

tragic. unfortunatelly they just dont think its going to happen to them, its not like they intentionally go out to speed and crash but thats just wat happens. im an L driver myself i spend most of my time in an XR6 falcon which of course means every commodore hoon wants to drag you its just not worth the risk and if you have to do it wait till your not carrying passengers

Why would you HAVE to do it all. Mate if you are on your L plates and think like this, then I hope you fail your driving test

vztrt · 11-11-2008, 06:33 PM

Unfortunately people don't learn until something happens, it is the it can't happen to me mentality. Until it effects you personally you'll continue. You can see this with people who try to tell others who have been involved in accidents and survived, mind you they didn't have an issue pre the accident.
This is not a go at people cause I'll paint myself with the same brush, its just the way it is.

4Vman · 11-11-2008, 06:42 PM

Personally id like to see people who are caught and convicted of offenses of "gross vehicular miss-conduct" such as 30+ over, drink driving, racing, burnouts etc have to serve community service time attending fatal accidents and the morgue... or attend with a member of the police to deliver the bad news to a family..
Maybe that might shock a bit of sence into a few people.

JC · 11-11-2008, 08:14 PM

Why does the driver in these cases survive, and "innocents" killed? Sad story, but IMO, 5.5 years is not enough punishment (the 6 years he's been waiting is not punishment; it's just waiting time).

flappist · 11-11-2008, 08:27 PM

And just tonight, here in sunny herveyvegas a rotten bastard who killed 2 innocent people by running into them after losing control at 140km/h in a 40 zone on the esplanade (a high density tourist area) while unlicensed, very drunk, having cannibis in bloodstream after police did not chase him because it was too dangerous WILL BE OUT OF JAIL IN ABOUT 2 YEARS and will be eligible for a license shortly after.

Why is this so? Why did he not get a far higher penalty? Are ALL people treated the same under the law regardless of their "heritage"?

I cannot say without breaching the T&C of AFF...........

P.S. many many many previous convictions and age is 22.

**Bundy** · 11-11-2008, 08:52 PM

^^^Better get a lawer son, better get a real good one."

He must have taken the Qld Police's lastest advert to the next level and used it against them?

So much for Justice......

fiery · 11-11-2008, 09:40 PM

Unfortunately too many of the judges here in QLD are known as soft and interpret sentencing how they see fit.
Without offending anybody here either by saying that quite a few cases are given a lot of leniency when sentencing due to 'cultural background' or who you are.

I don't comment on this lightly, this is an observation over many years now.

Unfortunately for the person 4Vman has posted about his life will never be the same. Wouldn't have mattered if he got 1 year or 10 years, his punishment is life long. I think so many forget that he has 'killed' his best friend, someone he probably spent many hours having fun with, talking with and sharing a lot of stuff.

I also feel for the families involved and other friends too, this has got to be quite a hard thing all round.

The big thing here for all involved is Forgiveness, you can't really move on properly without it. This also includes the young guy involved :(

My hearts with all involved.

ieatsports_cars · 11-11-2008, 09:51 PM

yes living near hervey bay ! that was a very sad acciendent i should;nt say this but i will he got off very lightly :-/ its sets a bad example to the government to let people of like that, 2 innocent lives were lost because of that man in hervey bay people on murder charges get more then that, it was very sad acciendent

FPV GT40 · 11-11-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not sure what the jail sentence will do other than give the grieving family some comfort of justice by maintaining the punishment.
It certainly wont teach him a lesson he's hasn't already learnt though...

Mate he was given a chance to learn the lesson the first time, obviously did not learn anything, so at least while he is locked up it will be one concern less for me and my family when we are out on the road....sorry to sound harsh, but I think people get too many chances and still do the same thing.

He had already lost his licence for street racing, was given some time to think about it, and still went out and did it again, I am by no way an angel, I have been booked, but I have never lost my licence and have not dented a car or even scraped a rim on a gutter for about 15 years, refuse to drive drunk (hate drink drivers with a passion) and basically stick to the rules of the road as intended......if you want to race go to the track, if you want to do burn out head for the burn out pad at any car show or drag meet.....

gtxb67 · 12-11-2008, 08:49 AM

i feel the penalty may be too high. i am not sure what the penalty should be, but from my experience the jail term does not matter. we need jail sentences in these cases but probably more as a deterent

it is my friends birthday today - tomorrow is 8 and a half years since he was pushed into a pole in chapel street. personally i did not care if the guy who caused it received 15 minutes, days, months or years. it would not change what happened. he got 15 months minimum but the emptyness does not go away. i am sure that the driver who caused my friends accident is more devasted than me. it is just a pity he could not understand the feeling before the event

as others have suggested we do not understand the devastation that can be caused. it is easy to some degree to understand the pain. just think of the worst emotional pain you could ever feel. instead of replacing that feeling with happy thoughts, keep that feeling for many, many years - feel it every day for a long time. that is how it feels. suddenly your emotions are shot - happy or sad moments make you act totally different from what you once did. your life is forever changed. i can not even begin to imagine who the family of victims must feel. nothing could ever take away the pain

Paddyboy · 12-11-2008, 10:18 AM

I totally agree with FPV GT40.
There are many outlets for young hoons to do what they want legally (calder park drags, burnout comps, car shows) but they still choose to do stupid stuff on the road. I really believe that this problem will never be eliminated because the combination of 18 year old feeling invincible + peer pressure + wanting to be cool, showing off will nearly always win against that small voice in your head saying "is this a good idea"

I do believe that to help though, the courts, judges have to get real strong on these types of cases and make examples of the guys on the roads making these mistakes.
I dont think for a second that this guy we are talking about doesnt regret what he has done. Sure, he has to live with this for the rest of his life, but the facts are that he made the mistake and he must suffer the consequences. simple. If he has the right support from his family and friends and forgiveness from the family of his mate who died, then he will be able to move on and maybe one day encourage others to not make the mistake he did.
I really feel sorry for this bloke because it would be terrible been in his situation. I hope that the young guys out there see this and just get in their heads that its never worth it.

manxman · 12-11-2008, 10:50 AM

Compulsory 2 yrs motorcycling with log book minimums first for all drivers is a good way of installing FEAR of accidents into people. It when you stop being afraid you really become an hazzard to yourself, and everyone else. See Volvo drivers-no reason to be afraid of personal injury, so no fear-& they get lazy and drive badly. Some vehicles are too safe-not too many would hoon an old mini in heavy traffic, but many would hood a modern Lancer or similar.

gtxb67 · 12-11-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxman

not too many would hoon an old mini in heavy traffic

the only reason why old mini's may not get hooned in heavy traffic is because they are classics now. many years ago they were driven on footpaths, under trees etc. just because they could

i am not sure if you are putting down the safety of a mini or not, but a mini completed a lap of bathurst around 30 seconds slower than normal (with a rollover) - they are virtually indestructible

no one understands the problem - the problem is young kids especially have not been exposed to the dangers of the road until it is too late. as 4man (i think) suggested, make repeat driving offenders serve time at a morgue, cemetary etc. no one was innocent - some were more guilty for sure, but none of us realised the danger until in an accident. none of us understand the devestation of losing a loved one until we are faced with it

i was lucky/unlucky, by the age of 17 i was a passenger in 3 accidents (all potentially fatal, one very close) and none were caused through driver error. from the day i got my license i drove like an old granny and built up over time. young kids (17 even) do understand risks, but they need to have first hand experience. unfortunately by the time most realise the risk, it is much too late. as a society we are so good at saying sorry afterwards, when a little thought before would negate the need for that word