Need advise on buying a new CAM :D

SB4 · 10-10-2006, 12:31 AM

Hi guys,

I'm looking at buying a cam for my ED, just not sure what to go for, where to get it from, and how much it'll cost me to have it fitted. Im running an EL XR6 motor with shaved head, have 2.5" exhaust system, jmm extractors + high flow cat, EL bbm (switching at 3,800rpm), XR6 300kpa pressure reg, EL thermos, k&n filter, Exedy heavy duty clutch, EA T5, XR6 ECU, 3.45 diff. Where have you guys bought your cam(s) from - had it installed/dialled in, etc and which ones would you recommend? And finally what rough prices would i be looking at?
Cheers
Sam

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 10:05 AM

Wade 1636 in Grechies engine, with roughly the same setup (EB/ED engine) made 146rwkw, and has proven a 14.43.

My car, wade 1004 112, same setup as you, 139.6rwkw. No quarter yet.

Both those cams will cost you $120 change over.

OR

If you want some serious power, get another head, have it ported, shaved, heavy duty valve springs, and put a DEV 5 cam in it from JMM. That will cost roughly $500-600 for the head (reco and port+polish and valve springs) and $490 for the cam. This should see around 150rwkw.

OR

If you want to get MORE power again, you will need to follow procedure 2, but instead of a Dev 5 cam, grab a wade 1521a, and get a chip, such as a Unichip or chiptorque, have the cam tuned, as you should see in excess of 160rwkw.

It's up to you how far you want to go Sam. I reckon 140rwkw is a good place to be. Not much breaks around that kilowattage. And for $120 change over, it's a very good bang for buck mod, and i can even install it for you ;)

SB4 · 10-10-2006, 01:54 PM

Thanks for all that yagz! So if i was to go for a wade 1636 or a 1004 112, i woudn't need to have any dyno tuning done?

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 02:27 PM

Well, I installed my cam. I just bolted it in with 12 shims (because it was a regrind) and away she went.

You can get a vernier gear as well, which replaces the stock cam gear, and enables you to dial the cam in. All this does it ensure power is being made at the correct RPM positions. My cam is spot on though. Makes maximum power at 4800rpm. The power band for the cam is meant to be 2200 - 4800rpm. My cam feels exactly on par.

Dyno tuning with a stock eec, I don't know of anyone who does this? You can set the timing yourself, with the car stationery, and advance it until it starts to ping a bit, then retard it slightly. You will always have to run premium if you set the timing on premium though. After you install the cam, you could get a dyno printout, or AFR reading from a diagnostic machine at ultratune, or ford, etc, just to make sure you're getting enough fuel, etc.

Unless you get a chip, there's not much dyno tuning to be done after installing a cam..

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 02:30 PM

But just so you know, i'm beginning to know why people rave about V8's.

My EL XR8 had 150rwkw, and a 15.5 (gearbox issues) but it felt a HELL of a lot quicker than my 140rwkw I6. It had alot more pull, and felt nicer to rev than the I6.

N/A I6 is a waste of time. You end up pulling a maximum of 170-180rwkw with about $3000 worth of effort. (if you do all the installing/etc)

If you want big power, chase a turbo setup. Bolt on 220rwkw, minor engine mods.

But then you run into legality issues. Ah, e-series suck.

XR6TickfordBoy · 10-10-2006, 03:50 PM

Im interested in a cam too. Where would a good place to go to pick up a wade 1636. I presume it would be a similar result in my EL XR6, manual with intake and exhaust?

Allen · 10-10-2006, 03:55 PM

You can either buy a second hand one, or have your existing cam reground to the 1636 specs.

I've been informed by wade that new cam billits are no longer available for the 4.0, so a reground cam is the only option.
I got quoted $154 to have my xr6 cam ground to a 1604 profile. Then factor in the costs for shims, vernier gear etc...

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 03:58 PM

shims are bugger all from the wreckers if you spend some time pulling apart an old ef/ed engine.

EB/ED shims are bigger than EF/EL shims.

Vernier gear is not a neccesity.

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 03:58 PM

Oh, and if you're a fordmods member, a cam is $120 when you supply a cam.

I have 2 91DA cams here ready to be ground.

XR6TickfordBoy · 10-10-2006, 04:14 PM

Excuse my ignorance but what are shims and where would I get my cam reground to 1636 specs, would the reground cam and shims be all to keep the car running and gain power as it sounds like a cheap way to get that bit extra power. Still learning alot of this stuff so your advice is extremely helpful!

Allen · 10-10-2006, 04:19 PM

when a cam is reground, they grind the existing lobes of the cam to the new specs. This takes material off the cam causing its base circle to become smaller. The shims go under the hydralic lifter to make it taller to compensate for the smaller base circle of the cam.

To get you cam ground, call Wade http://www.wadecams.com and they should point you in the right direction.

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 04:28 PM

As stated above, you take your existing cam into wade, and they put it on a grinding machine, which basically transforms the lobes. The lobes of the cam are ground down a few millimeters, to change things like lift and duration. So that the rest of the rocker gear and valves operate like normal, shims are added under the Lifter that pushes onto the valve, to compensate for the stuff ground off the lobe.

To understand how that works, you've gotta know what a cam does. An overhead cam sits inside rocker gear. The 'rockers' rock back and forward as the cam lobes hit it. As the rocker rocks, it pushes onto the top of the valves, where there is a spring. The valve then opens for a certain amount of time, at a certain distance.

I think this is right, someone with more knowledge might want to correct me, but to get more power, the cam lobes are changed, so that the valve opens wider (more air) and for longer. More air, equals more flow, which in turn, means more power. There's also other factors involved with an overhead cam, but I think they are the main ones.

It is a very cheap mod, but in all honesty, I didn't notice much more power with the wade cam. As i said above, I6 engines need about $2000-3000 worth of work (heavy cam, chip, stiffer valve springs, tune, etc) to get them boogying.

XR6TickfordBoy · 10-10-2006, 04:37 PM

Thanks for the advice but as u said if it only costs a few hundred to do, the power gain by the sounds of it makes it worth the money. Im just looking for reasonably cheap mods to get it going a bit quicker than stock, the car is only prob putting out 100-110rwkw's so if that can get up to 120rwkw+ than I think it would be worth it.

Allen · 10-10-2006, 04:42 PM

A cam will only perform at its best when combined with exhaust and intake modifications, so dont get caught into the trap of thinking a cam will give you a large increase.

When I install my cam, it will be going in with a shaved and ported tickford head, full exhaust, CAI system and a megasquirt ECU.
Even then, i'll be happy if I get 250HP at the flywheel.

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 04:52 PM

shaved ported tickford head and megasquirt.. What cam?

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6TickfordBoy

Thanks for the advice but as u said if it only costs a few hundred to do, the power gain by the sounds of it makes it worth the money. Im just looking for reasonably cheap mods to get it going a bit quicker than stock, the car is only prob putting out 100-110rwkw's so if that can get up to 120rwkw+ than I think it would be worth it.

Yeah it's worth it, but don't expect your car to suddenly go like a rocket. It's not boost. It's just a little bit more power.

I was at KK's the other night, and was served by a lovely dark haired girl, her name was celeste.

Get me a date with her!

Allen · 10-10-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

shaved ported tickford head and megasquirt.. What cam?

Wade 1636... Im swapping my tickford item for the wade cam off another member.

Im only really going for the megasquirt so I can have full control over it for tuning + it will cost me nothing for the megasquirt

XR6TickfordBoy · 10-10-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

Yeah it's worth it, but don't expect your car to suddenly go like a rocket. It's not boost. It's just a little bit more power.

I was at KK's the other night, and was served by a lovely dark haired girl, her name was celeste.

Get me a date with her!

Celeste she's tall, dark and hot? Only prob she's only like 15 or 16, doesn't look like it but she is. If your willing to risk jail time go for gold! Any extra power is a bonus at the moment!

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

Wade 1636... Im swapping my tickford item for the wade cam off another member.

Im only really going for the megasquirt so I can have full control over it for tuning + it will cost me nothing for the megasquirt

Megasquirt for nothing eh?

What did you barter for that?

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6TickfordBoy

Celeste she's tall, dark and hot? Only prob she's only like 15 or 16, doesn't look like it but she is. If your willing to risk jail time go for gold! Any extra power is a bonus at the moment!

15 or 16 doesn't bother me.. It's how big/strong/tough/anal her father is, that's the problem.

Sundeep · 10-10-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

You can set the timing yourself, with the car stationery, and advance it until it starts to ping a bit, then retard it slightly

Dude if you get a stationery car to ping with no load, and then back it off a little bit I can guarantee as soon as you accelerate while driving with some normal load it will ping off it's tits.

Best bet is to advance it a couple of degrees, take it for a spin and listen, if it still doesn't keep going so forth. That's if you don't want a dyno tune. I'd recommend running premium with any amount of timing advance though.

Sundeep

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundeep

Dude if you get a stationery car to ping with no load, and then back it off a little bit I can guarantee as soon as you accelerate while driving with some normal load it will ping off it's tits.

Best bet is to advance it a couple of degrees, take it for a spin and listen, if it still doesn't keep going so forth. That's if you don't want a dyno tune. I'd recommend running premium with any amount of timing advance though.

Sundeep

Sorry, should have clarified. Of course i meant drive it and check if it pings. Pinging won't occur unless the car is under load. It's almost like a rattling noise.

Yeah, clarification is a must on these forums..

Allen · 10-10-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

Megasquirt for nothing eh?

What did you barter for that?

My dad builds them himself for race cars... he's done quite a few road cars too...

SwarvJarv · 10-10-2006, 06:24 PM

im lookin into using a wade 1636, what chip it best for it and can it be used with NA and boosted engines???

gthofan · 10-10-2006, 06:35 PM

you dont need a chip for the 1636, its only a mild cam with similar lift. the only real change is to the exhaust lobes, well thats on the 87 da cams(ea)

SwarvJarv · 10-10-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

My dad builds them himself for race cars... he's done quite a few road cars too...

any chance he could make me one, i would pay of coarse,

Allen · 10-10-2006, 06:59 PM

proberly not at the moment... He's up to his neck in track cars, its only a hobby for him, and the only road cars he does is for mates.

XR_Lightning · 10-10-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthofan

you dont need a chip for the 1636, its only a mild cam with similar lift. the only real change is to the exhaust lobes, well thats on the 87 da cams(ea)

do you have to get new springs and stuff with the 1636?

Christiaan · 10-10-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB_Lightning

do you have to get new springs and stuff with the 1636?

No. It will work fine with the stock head.

XR_Lightning · 10-10-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

No. It will work fine with the stock head.

any idea on the idle quality of the 1636?