Displacement - and hi everyone

Lanyi · 02-08-2008, 05:26 PM

Hey everyone. I have been viewing the forum for some time now, and i guess its about time i post something.

I have been driving around in my 06 LS Zetec for 6 months and i must say, i love driving it and i am i very happy with it... until now.
I met a guy with a 05 WRX claiming over 220kw at all 4 wheels, and its really depressing when his rex shots off even when im pulling hard through 3rd gear and he just puts his foot down in 5th... damn turbo...

I know that i cant compete against an all wheel drive with a turbo running at 17psi, BUT, i want the little duratec to put out! To be honest, im hoping for around 200fwkw - so let the modding begin! That would be enough to throw me back into the seat, and i could maybe even line up against some guys with the XR5s!

I have read some threads here that have mentioned that the focus engine bay is identical to the mazda 3, as for that fact the SP23 (and even the MPS 3?). So im wondering, because the duratec 2.0L and the 2.3L mazada engine are the same block, same everything except the displacement, would it be possible to get a stroker kit for the focus? It would be a nice start to getting more power out of the engine (and possibly a solid starting point for a turbo later on?).
This is just a hypthetical, but im interested in any general opinions, and i would love to see the focus emerge as not only an attractive, economical and fun car, but a tuneable powerhouse.

Thanx in advance.

RJO89 · 02-08-2008, 05:51 PM

Hey mate. Welcome to the forums.
If you were after a bunch of power to begin with, you were probably better off going with the XR5 Turbo to start.
But since you have already purchased, think about putting a turbo in aftermarket. There's a bunch of guys in Queensland (can't remember exactly what they were called), but they have photos on the forums here somewhere about them dropping a turbo in an LS LX.
With the turbo, obviously you'll need to do exhaust, intake and ECU tune. With all that you should be thinking about 200kw.
Even if you could stroke the 2L duratec, I wouldn't think it would pull all that much extra power anyway. Definitely going to need forced induction for greater power gains.
And another simple way to get faster, remove weight!!! Take out as much as you can that you don't need...

melbzetec · 02-08-2008, 06:09 PM

Tom at Focus-power.com in the US does a stroker kit I think, but I'm not too sure that the 2.3 and 2.0 are in fact the same block.

But don't muck around, go straight to one of these!!!:

2.3 litre crate engine Duratec hand built by Cosworth. It can be ordered anywhere up to 300hp spec.

Meridian Motosport in Melbourne is the agent in Australia I think.

I know US companies offer the 250hp version for $12,999. 220hp 2 litre version for $10,000

Now THAT will get your mate to sit up and take notice!!!!!!

BlackLS · 02-08-2008, 06:48 PM

Take the Focus for what it is. Suggest a cruise with him through a local mountain road.

If you want 200kw at the fly, you'll need forced induction or lot of Cosworth goodies.

Due to the shorter rods the 2.0L is a stronger motor for forced induction, 9psi safely, compared to around 7psi for the 2.3L.

Lanyi · 02-08-2008, 06:55 PM

Holy!!!

Now thats exactly what i need! Shame about the price though. And i know, XR5 would have done it, but damn insurance scared me away.

As for the tune and other mods, i have looked into them a bit. Dont know if many people have heard of these guys, but ChipTorque up/down here on the coast do some impressive stuff, but they are yet to master the focus... :evil3: probably for obvious reasons. I havent come across any other place that has touched a focus yet (but then again i need to search around more). Thats the only reason why i havent already done an ecu tune to the car yet, nothing concrete or near.

I do have to mention though, i have done a lower airbox delete on the car (lovely sound and Ford service didnt pick up on it) and im still thinking about a more efficient way to feed air. I have thought about the extractors, and i would love to get my hands on an entire exhaust system. I have seen several guys here refer to european-parts, but im just a bit unsure about it - mainly shipping and then fitting.

Btw, is the focus 107kw the figure for the flywheel or the actual wheel output?

mudwaa · 02-08-2008, 10:34 PM

hmmmmm. seems youve already found the dilema with the LS. ive only done suspension mods and i had to show the guys how to open the bonnet. When i walked in the guys had my manual out and were standing round scratching their heads. Nobody in Oz seems to know a damn thing bout Foci.

AnthonyTDCi · 02-08-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanyi

Btw, is the focus 107kw the figure for the flywheel or the actual wheel output?

its definately a flywheel power output. no car manufactoror qoutes KW@W.

to achieve the power you are chasing, i dont honestly see you getting much change out of $10k.....maybe the cossie motor would be best suited....

melbzetec · 03-08-2008, 07:10 AM

I'm assuming Dreamscience has an ECU tune for the LS? (Sorry my knowledge is a bit limited to the LR)

Also, you can buy various Cosworth parts for the Duratec...throttle bodies is an intereting place to start!!

mudwaa · 03-08-2008, 07:19 AM

they have ECU tune for the XR4 which is the same engine

Fast Eddie · 03-08-2008, 10:02 AM

I MUST make a visit to Meridien Motorsport next time I'm in Melbourne.

Lanyi · 03-08-2008, 10:51 AM

Ok, so it looks like Cosworth is the way to go. They have everything you need to 'rebuild' your engine to cope with and produce considerably high power.

I agree, a throttle body accompanied with the inlet manifold would be very interesting - and I doubt that it would hurt the wallet too much.

The Dreamscience flash tune really interests me, but everywhere I look I it seems to be advertised with the XR5. But I'm guessing that its the Stratagem flash kit right? Has anyone done a flash tune (XR5 owners, dont make me cry by saying you have broken the 200kw mark!)?

RJO89 · 03-08-2008, 03:09 PM

Try Bullet Performance Racing down in Geelong. They are the Australian Dreamscience dealer. They would be able to work out a custom tune for you, as I don't think there is a premade tuning unit for the focus' other than the XR5. And I don't think the XR4 unit works even though they are the same engine.
Give them a call at least and see what they can tell you...

Bullet Performance Racing
6 Traminer Court,
Waurn Ponds, Vic, 3216

Phone - (03) 5245 6966
Mobile - 0418 102 616

Lanyi · 03-08-2008, 03:52 PM

Maybe BlackLS is right, take the focus for what it is. As for the mountain run, the focus doesn't disappoint too much.

I did a couple of more searches and I found BTAMotorsport - they're the guys that dropped a Garrett turbo into a ls lx; so it can be done. But the power I'm yearning for will invlove the internal work you guys have pointed out an upward of 9psi of boost. The Duratec would require a lot of work, so for the moment I'll put the cosworth goodies to the side.

I guess what I really want to find out now is whether it would be possible, and what would I need to drop a Mazada MPS 3 engine (MZR 2.3 DISI Turbo) into the focus? The MZR produces 190kw and 380nm of torque... ultimately, these are the figures I want to play around with. Either that or I start looking at upgrading to an XR5...

Thanks RJO89, I will have a talk with them.

AnthonyTDCi · 03-08-2008, 08:54 PM

honestly couldnt see the 2.3t mazda motor being a "cheap" power upgrade at all. you would also have problems with the RTA as you are going up in engine displacement by more than 10%

Mullett · 04-08-2008, 09:27 AM

If insurance concerns you, then any of the serious mods you're talking about will make your car far, far harder to insure than an XR5. And trust me when I say that a standard focus with 200kw at the front wheels would be nothing but a total pig to drive...remember that the XR5 has 160kw (at the flywheel) which is about where you'd want to be for a quick car with some good rubber and good suspention. A standard WRX is 160kw, and I'm guessing his is modified. Just remember that you're talking about two cars in totally different ballparks.

WRX- RRP $40 000, plus 10k for mods, average fuel consumption (factory 12.9L/100km)

Focus -RRP $20 000, average fuel consumption (factory 7.2L/100km)

Remember that any mods you do (like a turbo kit) will make your economy suffer, especially if you drive it hard. The warranty will go out the window, and things like gearboxes start to get very sad at 200fwkw. I've considered turboing mine, but for the price of an XR5 second hand, it's a much better option. Not only do you get the turbo, you get awesome interior, reworked suspention, new bodykit, rims, etc etc, and the support of a factory setup. It just makes far more sense...if you sold your zetec for 20k, and put your 10k for goodies into it, you'd have a very nice second hand XR5.

As far as driving enjoyment goes, get some NICE suspention, good rubber and a nice mild exhaust, and you'll love your car to bits without ever suffering for it. It's very easy to get caught up in the power race (your mate can come play with my evo if he wants to

) but at the end of the day, it'll often make your car less enjoyable to drive than a factory one.

Oh, and power at the wheels is (roughly) 30% less than flywheel HP. Which, handily, means that 1kw at the flywheel is about 1hp at the wheels...so and XR5 will make about 160hp (or about 120kw) at the wheels in factory form...just like a stock WRX.

My 2c

RM.

Lanyi · 04-08-2008, 12:44 PM

Mullett, your Evo and my friends WRX should really meet! The WRX is heavily modified, and I was never expecting to match or beat it, I just want the focus to run a bit more aggressively. I also see where you're coming from regarding insurance, fuel and selling to upgrade to a XR5.

Here is something that a few of you would find a bit depressing. My Rex friend claims that he is only paying $750 for a comprehensive insurance on his modded car; he is 19; he is on good driving behaviour..... I'm paing $1,650 for a manual zetec.......

photn · 04-08-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanyi

Mullett, your Evo and my friends WRX should really meet! The WRX is heavily modified, and I was never expecting to match or beat it, I just want the focus to run a bit more aggressively. I also see where you're coming from regarding insurance, fuel and selling to upgrade to a XR5.

Here is something that a few of you would find a bit depressing. My Rex friend claims that he is only paying $750 for a comprehensive insurance on his modded car; he is 19; he is on good driving behaviour..... I'm paing $1,650 for a manual zetec.......

ask him what his excess is. ive just renewed my insurance and i got mine down to 855 including all the mods i plan on doing to the car in the next year. yet my excess is 3g for example.

Martyvan · 04-08-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanyi

Here is something that a few of you would find a bit depressing. My Rex friend claims that he is only paying $750 for a comprehensive insurance on his modded car; he is 19; he is on good driving behaviour..... I'm paing $1,650 for a manual zetec.......

I would say your friend is not entirely telling the truth, unless his excess is $6000. Or he has it in his parents name, and he is down as an irregular driver.

AnthonyTDCi · 04-08-2008, 08:03 PM

hmm.....$750 for full comp.... :s

im 24...no claims on a TDCi and mine is $1250ish with Aami and my excess is about $1000....

kuans · 04-08-2008, 08:32 PM

Mullett, very well said. full of pratical wisdom!

The only mod I've done is installing a K&N air filter! haha! cheapest mod around!
http://www.sorijen.com.au/product_in...ducts_id=15642

Mullett · 04-08-2008, 10:04 PM

I'm paying $600. $300 voluntary excess, lost license 4 years ago, 22 years old, 55% no claim. That's with RAC...

About $1100 for an 02 wrx, or $1300 for an STI.

Remember that no claim will make a huge difference to your insurance...

RM.

P.S. I have no idea how he got $750 for ful comp on a modified WRX...me think he's lying, or he's got fire and theft...

P.P.S (practical wisdom?) It just comes from 5 years of modifying cars...it's a dud game, trust me. If you want a fast car, buy a fast car...

AnthonyTDCi · 05-08-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullett

(practical wisdom?) It just comes from 5 years of modifying cars...it's a dud game, trust me. If you want a fast car, buy a fast car...

here here!!!

Lanyi · 05-08-2008, 05:47 PM

Well with my zero modding experience -only a lot of reading and wishful thinking - I think I'll take your word about fast cars Mullett.

As for my WRX friend, he is also with aami and the car is under his name (single driver). Dont know about his excess, but I do know that he owned a VY SS before switching to the Rex. And he says that he has done 2 defensive driving courses.

Honestly, if doing a defensive driving course will half my insurance, I'm booking one asap!

Mullett · 05-08-2008, 08:39 PM

I don't think a defensive driving course would make that much of a difference...try it, just call up AAMI, tell them you want a quote for a WRX. Either someone stuffed up, or he's lying is my guess...

RM.

eXtremist · 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM

1. Comparing an EVO to a WRX is silly, you cant compare the EVO to a WRX, on the other hand, an STi would be a good match.

2. Contact your insurance company to find out what modifications you can make to your car without affecting your policy.

3. If you want the power and dont want to sell your Focus, look around for an XR5 engine package. (XR5 turbo average fuel consumption is ~10.5L/100km) - Also remember, if you are going to over boost the XR5 engine, dont expect to put all the power on the ground.

BlackLS · 06-08-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullett

I don't think a defensive driving course would make that much of a difference...try it, just call up AAMI, tell them you want a quote for a WRX. Either someone stuffed up, or he's lying is my guess...

RM.

The AAMI "skilled drivers course" gets you 10% off your insurance if your under 25. Also if a parent or grandparent is with AAMI thats another 10%. Its rumoured to be a touch harder getting a payout from them compared to NRMA etc.