Cars for Australian Conditions

[Crazy Dazz]

No, not another "save the Falcon" thread. And reality is that I think more and more cars are suitable, but some just aren't.

One thing that gripes me is that governments rush to impose European environmental standards, without considering how applicable they are to Australia, and then don't actually consider the different conditions our cars have to cope with.

I am always horrified when in the country I see bunch of young ladies flying along at 110kmh in some bus-biscuit.
We have cars designed for pedestrian safety, when the simple fact is that in Australia you are statistically MUCH more likely to hit a kangaroo, livestock, or feral animal.
Most of the wheels and tyres sold are not suitable for Australian conditions.

Now naturally many people will say (quite rightly) that they never leave the city, so their European juice-box with 3 ply tyres is ample. True. But by that logic cars sold to farmers in Mukinbudin shouldn't have to comply with European emissions standards or pedestrian safety?

[Kingsley]

Since towns like Mukinbudin, Bourke, Texas are about a century behind everywhere else with roads to match, I'd suggest one of those new fangled horseless carridges like a Model T Ford would be suffice.

[Ducati888]

Hiluxes and Landcruisers are well suited enough aren't they? And they got them new fangled air baggy things and disk brakes too, and meet Euro 5 compliance.

You are really only talking about one or two percent of the population, and there's enough rugged, safe vehicles to suit them out in the boonies.

It's not feasible to change ADR's for such a small component of the population, nor is there any guarantee that those vehicles would stay out of the cities in their life cycle. In fact, it would be more expensive to reverse engineer any vehicle for that purpose.

[flooded one]

I reckon Landcruiser.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Hiluxes and Landcruisers are well suited enough aren't they? And they got them new fangled air baggy things and disk brakes too, and meet Euro 5 compliance.

You are really only talking about one or two percent of the population, and there's enough rugged, safe vehicles to suit them out in the boonies.

It's not feasible to change ADR's for such a small component of the population, nor is there any guarantee that those vehicles would stay out of the cities in their life cycle. In fact, it would be more expensive to reverse engineer any vehicle for that purpose.

Personally I think that big heavy offroad vehicles are best suited to that, offroad use.

I think most medium - large cars are ok, although they could benefit from slightly increased ground clearance, better under-body protection, and tougher tyres. Provided you can get a decent air bag compliant roo-bar at a decent price.

I suppose I am getting at three points mostly:

Some cars (and drivers) should be restricted to metropolitan operations only.

The rush to adopt European (and or American) environmental and safety standards is expensive, destructive, pointless, and sometimes downright counter-productive.

Those who live in the real Australia should not be persecuted for fitting bull-bars. In fact their use should be encouraged and made cheaper.

[XP6]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Hiluxes and Landcruisers are well suited enough aren't they?

Hell no, why would I want a 4WD for hyway use

[flooded one]

I think space saver tyres are pretty pathetic for when you have to drive in very remote places. there an example of city only use. The bull bar argument is only because of people that got hit in the city by them. out in places where the skippys live they come in handy.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Some cars (and drivers) should be restricted to metropolitan operations only.

Crazy Dazz has gone completely bonkers!

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by XP6

Hell no, why would I want a 4WD for hyway use

they can be a life safer out in the bush when you have to drive through flood water etc. problem is thou to many people think if they have a four wheel drive they get through any amount of flood water and usually get washed off. some times extra clearance comes in handy

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think space saver tyres are pretty pathetic for when you have to drive in very remote places.

Crap idea but I had mine on the back of the Focus for a few thousand km, only did 80km/h on it once, it held up to 100-110km/h highway work without problems.

Busted a wheel and Ford wanted $1100 for one wheel, so found a set of the previous Focus from SA wrecker, like $400 for 4 but they were a ***** to find, musn't be too common for Focus stuff in wreckers.

Got one of the original full size 16s as a spare now.

Space saver is pox idea, but with the full size in the wheel well I can't get my toolbox in the back, so I have the space saver in the wheel well, toolbox in the back with spare wheel tied up next to it.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Most of the wheels and tyres sold are not suitable for Australian conditions.

Wheres the facts to back up your claims.

You might get some 2nd hand tyres imported that might be dodgy but that percentage is bugger all.

[Yellow_Festiva]

No such thing as 'Australian conditions' IMO.

What conditions do we have that other places don't?

98% of us drive in conditions that mirror any other advanced country.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Crap idea but I had mine on the back of the Focus for a few thousand km, only did 80km/h on it once, it held up to 100-110km/h highway work without problems.

Busted a wheel and Ford wanted $1100 for one wheel, so found a set of the previous Focus from SA wrecker, like $400 for 4 but they were a ***** to find, musn't be too common for Focus stuff in wreckers.

Got one of the original full size 16s as a spare now.

Space saver is pox idea, but with the full size in the wheel well I can't get my toolbox in the back, so I have the space saver in the wheel well, toolbox in the back with spare wheel tied up next to it.

$1100, she wanna be gold plated for that!!! that's actually rather impressive it held up at those speeds. Me Mothers little Mazda 2 is like that. she has a space saver she has around town and if she needs to go out west she's got a spare full size rim she throws in the cargo area. does take a far bit of room thou

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

No such thing as 'Australian conditions' IMO.

What conditions do we have that other places don't?

98% of us drive in conditions that mirror any other advanced country.

Exactly what I have always thought. What makes our roads and conditions different to any other around the world?

I think the original thought/idea came about in the 50's or 60's, when our roads where pretty much crap compared to USA, and they had to change the suspension and tyres to meet our poor quality roads.

[flooded one]

I think the OP is referring to areas that very few tread and are isolated out in the never never, whop whop, where off road driving is required etc

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

when our roads where pretty much crap compared to USA,

When you get off Highway 1 or out of any metro area, most of them still are.

[Itsme]

I have driven around Australia about 4 times & would say any car can do it quite easy with no problems this day & age, as for the off beaten tracks well then we are talking 4wd's where you would not take any car.

[XR Martin]

We still have more unsealed roads here than anywhere, and we're also the only country to have 'coarse chip' asphalt highways.
Also the intensity of the Aussie sun is greater than that of just about anywhere.
Audi and Toyota admit they have to detune some of their cars here due to the temp (and not the fuel like some people claim)
Nowhere else does the headlights of Euro or Jap cars yellow as fast.
Got in a brand new Elantra in 40 degree heat and the dash was tacky from the temperature, also the rear headrests fade in just one season of summer.

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Also the intensity of the Aussie sun is greater than that of just about anywhere.

So the the sun over Africa or any other country is different to our "aussie"sun?

Audi and Toyota have to detune because of our Australian temperature? By no means do I mean to offend, but I would like to see where you got this from.

[BPXR6T]

You'd be a dope to take on corrugations in a Chery.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

You'd be a dope to take on corrugations in a Chery.

Actually, call me dumb but I couldn't think of a better way to destroy such a car!

Death by a thousand ruts LOL.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

So the the sun over Africa or any other country is different to our "aussie"sun?

Audi and Toyota have to detune because of our Australian temperature? By no means do I mean to offend, but I would like to see where you got this from.

Sun over Africa: (Oasis a few hrs out of Cairo)



48.5... and I hate the heat...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think the OP is referring to areas that very few tread and are isolated out in the never never, whop whop, where off road driving is required etc

If its on private property you can drive what ever you like, doesn't have to meet any particular standards if its your own property lol.

If you really want to test out a car for the effects of the sun, send it to Antarctica as there is a massive hole in the Ozone layer, the Ozone layer protects us from UV exposure.

Ozone layer is thinner over Australia too giving us slightly higher exposure to UV rays.

It was caused by CFCs, which are in things like aerosols and a big offender was R12 refrigerant which was in car AC systems before 1994 which was why the switch to r134a happened (which is a crappy refrigerant but not covering that here) and why you will be crucified if caught venting any refrigerant system to atmosphere and another reason why it is regulated with you needing qualifications and licenses to carry out the work.

Ozone layer is thinner over Tassie. Theres no hole but the Ozone layer is thinner, theres photos of the Ozone layer, I had one linked from 2009 but it changes every year, I think 2006 was the worst ever on record, the hole was huge.

Sun is more overhead in northern states which also makes UV worse but its not the only factor as shown above.

Ozone-deficient air can get caught up in atmospheric air flows that transport the 'hole' to lower latitudes (i.e. from Antarctica to Australia). Tasmania's geographical position means that ozone-depleted air can pass over the State in spring and early summer. The effects on the health of Tasmanians can be severe, for in these conditions the level of skin-damaging UV radiation increases dramatically.

http://soer.justice.tas.gov.au/2003/...ue/5/index.php

Argentina is also in the firing line of the Ozone layer depletion as it is closer to Antarctica than we are.

/environmental lesson no one asked for

[Ford_The_Win]

It's that time of night again, Dazz?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

Audi and Toyota have to detune because of our Australian temperature? By no means do I mean to offend, but I would like to see where you got this from.

Honda was detuning cars for Australia and the USA for years, we always got the watered down stuff.

For example our DC5 Integra Type R was down on power a fair bit compared to theirs, JDM variant was 162KW and specified a minimum of 100 RON fuel, back in the 90s early-mid 2000s ours was 147KW the closest we got to a JDM variant was the earlier DC2 which was pretty much the same with some minor mods, I believe they had more aggressive cams.

The JDM DC5 Type Rs had different cams, compression ratio, internals and even had brembo brakes.

In 2010 when I did a short stint at a Honda dealership, we were having fuel related issues on early second gen Accord Euros, even cars which were running on 95/98 like recommended.

[chevypower]

It's really just a marketing concept. From the customer's perspective "oh it was designed for Australian conditions? Well I must have it because this is Australia." The fact that there's such diversity of vehicles in any market tells you the real variation lies in the different needs for different people, not so much the local conditions.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

So the the sun over Africa or any other country is different to our "aussie"sun?

Audi and Toyota have to detune because of our Australian temperature? By no means do I mean to offend, but I would like to see where you got this from.

Audi admitted the new RS3 will be detuned from the Euro spec due to the temperature here.
The current diesel RAV4 when released had a tow rating of 550kg, Toyota said the reason was also due to Australia's unique climatic conditions.
Initially dealers would not even install towbars on them.
Toyota rushed through an update late last year to uprate the capacity to 1000kg, however its tow capacity is still less rated less than the petrol.
We also get a detuned version of the Mazda Skyactiv engines.

[mash again]

One of the reasons SUV's have become more popular seems to get ignored. People buying my mums territory buying it for one main reason, they have an ea wagon and wanted another wagon but found the AU/BA series windows swept back so far it wasnt easy for them to get in and out as they are older and i would have to agree, both my parents hve jeeps for the same reason. We can throw out ADR's now with manufacturing dead and save the taxpayer a **** load and just use Euro or US standard with a small clause regarding LHD.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

No, not another "save the Falcon" thread. And reality is that I think more and more cars are suitable, but some just aren't.

One thing that gripes me is that governments rush to impose European environmental standards, without considering how applicable they are to Australia, and then don't actually consider the different conditions our cars have to cope with.

I am always horrified when in the country I see bunch of young ladies flying along at 110kmh in some bus-biscuit.
We have cars designed for pedestrian safety, when the simple fact is that in Australia you are statistically MUCH more likely to hit a kangaroo, livestock, or feral animal.
Most of the wheels and tyres sold are not suitable for Australian conditions.

Now naturally many people will say (quite rightly) that they never leave the city, so their European juice-box with 3 ply tyres is ample. True. But by that logic cars sold to farmers in Mukinbudin shouldn't have to comply with European emissions standards or pedestrian safety?

Where's Myth-Busters when you need them.

Sure there was a lot of development 30-50 years ago testing and developing cars in the Australian environment, but the results of that have spread through the world car fleet, so there really is no specific car "built for Australia".

Environmental standards are a global issue. Is Australia located on Earth or the planet Xenon where it can exempt itself from such matters?

Funnily enough "Australian roads" are found all over the world. I know, I've driven on them. It must be one of our best-kept export secrets.

You get spooked by young ladies flying along in buzzboxes at 110? Come to Europe and see them flying along in buzzboxes at 160. Australian ladies are tame.

Kangaroos? Chicken feed. Try feral deer on for size. Or a moose. These animals are as common as flies in some countries. Real spooky driving through forests at dusk.

The Skoda I had a couple of years ago was tougher than my Territorys which are rather weak in the suspension and trim departments. "Aussie-tough" must have been exported too.

Statistically you're more likely to hit anything else other than a kangaroo and livestock. Be thankful for the high crash protection standards in your vehicle. Better sacrificing the front of your car than your life if the vehicle is unyielding and your body absorbs the crash energy instead.

Be thankful also for the (relative) pedestrian-protection design. Australia is virtually the most-urbanised country in the world. Even most country folk live in towns.

By the way, I live in the country, out of town among the roos. Statistically only a tiny percentage of people in the bush might have to deal with more extreme situations and they will probably use a 4WD with a bullbar - which are readily available on the market for those who need them.

That's all I have to say - I can't see your post any longer through the bulldust

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Audi admitted the new RS3 will be detuned from the Euro spec due to the temperature here.
The current diesel RAV4 when released had a tow rating of 550kg, Toyota said the reason was also due to Australia's unique climatic conditions.
Initially dealers would not even install towbars on them.
Toyota rushed through an update late last year to uprate the capacity to 1000kg, however its tow capacity is still less rated less than the petrol.
We also get a detuned version of the Mazda Skyactiv engines.

Yeah I had a bit of a laugh Martin when I heard about its massive 550kg towing capability when it first came out.....the same vehicle was rated to tow 2000kg in Europe.

Here's the info link:

http://m.motoring.com.au/news/2013/t...capacity-36841

Cheers