Does the Ford world have an answer to this?

Phoon Hoon · 06-07-2006, 08:49 AM

Was reading about the new VE HSVs on www.drive.com.au and this sentence got me thinking...

A replacement for the chart-topping GTS, last seen in VY guise, could be held back for release in 2007 with Chevrolet's bigger 7.0-litre, 400kW V8.

Is there a big displacement, big power V8 out there somewhere in the Ford world that could be bunged into an FPV? 5.4L is starting to look a little... well... little.

OzJavelin · 06-07-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Is there a big displacement, big power V8 out there somewhere in the Ford world that could be bunged into an FPV? 5.4L is starting to look a little... well... little.

The Triton V10 truck engine!!

Phoon Hoon · 06-07-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

The Triton V10 truck engine!!

That's what I was afraid of. If FPV have gotta stick with the 5.4, they gotta blow it.

BENT_8 · 06-07-2006, 10:41 AM

Why would Ford want to go bigger?
With fuel prices rising and the demand for smaller engined commuters i cant see the attraction to a 7.0l engine.
Holden's ls1 and the already outdated ls2 are worth replacing but i believe there is heaps more potential in the OHC 5.4l
F1 etc. have been drawing massive amounts of power from smaller engines than 5.4l, so going bigger isn't better imo.

**ebxr8240** · 06-07-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why would Ford want to go bigger?
With fuel prices rising and the demand for smaller engined commuters i cant see the attraction to a 7.0l engine.
Holden's ls1 and the already outdated ls2 are worth replacing but i believe there is heaps more potential in the OHC 5.4l
F1 etc. have been drawing massive amounts of power from smaller engines than 5.4l, so going bigger isn't better imo.

F1 is not realy one to compare with, neither is a top fueler ...
But bassically yes!!! I did read on Corral that Ford are building a bigger V8 but in 2008...I hope along the same lines as 5.4 with 4" + bore..4 Valve heads seem to work better with a better bore stroke ratio that lets engine REV!!! Giving them a very wide power band...In N/A form .....
With the economy of both engine manufacterer's [G.M v Ford] it may come down to which engine is cheaper to build? When comparing Fords 4 valve engines to Gen lll's....

Full Spectrum · 06-07-2006, 11:24 AM

I don't think even in the past the GTS has worried TickFord-FPV, They know it's a very low volume car with extras that top $100,000 after on-roads etc, They and even HSV know it's just 1 car to play with.
The real worry is in the higher selling cars like the maloo Clubsport.
Holden and HSV don't seem to unhappy not to have a Turbo version, So why should a 7lt HSV worry Ford?.

OzJavelin · 06-07-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

With the economy of both engine manufacterer's [G.M v Ford] it may come down to which engine is cheaper to build? When comparing Fords 4 valve engines to Gen lll's....

.. and that would be in GMs favour wouldn't it? *HOWEVER* I think the average Ford-fanatic might be surprised the level of technology in the 'ole GenIII/GenIV though .. people just can't seem to get past the pushrods.

turboute · 06-07-2006, 12:16 PM

There is a large performance engine in the works at Ford USA, however I think it was pushrod. Would be better sourcing something from Jag or Austin etc (or just get the engine from a Saleen LOL).

There are heaps of performance engines in the Ford Banner that could be used, however a 5.7L (so we can use the '351' term again) version of the Current V8 with a shorter stroke would be the ultimate. Unfortunately I cannot see that happenning.

351ciofgrunt · 06-07-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

There is a large performance engine in the works at Ford USA, however I think it was pushrod. Would be better sourcing something from Jag or Austin etc (or just get the engine from a Saleen LOL).

There are heaps of performance engines in the Ford Banner that could be used, however a 5.7L (so we can use the '351' term again) version of the Current V8 with a shorter stroke would be the ultimate. Unfortunately I cannot see that happenning.

the 351 is a 5.8L

:

XRated · 06-07-2006, 12:32 PM

I'd just be happy with the Lightning/GT engine; 5.4L and blown. They sound absolutely incredible.

Steffo · 06-07-2006, 02:50 PM

Yes, the Ford world does have an answer, mechanically.

It displaces 5.4 litres, Supercharged, dry-sump lubrication and produces 410kW of power.

The Ford GT engine.

RAREV8 · 06-07-2006, 03:29 PM

[QUOTE=turboute]There is a large performance engine in the works at Ford USA, however I think it was pushrod. Would be better sourcing something from Jag or Austin etc (or just get the engine from a Saleen LOL).

Hehe!

I really wouldn't recommend lifting an engine from an Austin!! :evil_laug
They aren't known for their high output V8's!

BA_Turbs · 06-07-2006, 03:54 PM

Great, here comes the State Government (aka "The Fun Police").

Look at the whinge Bracks had when the Typhoon came out.

Bucket · 06-07-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

Great, here comes the State Government (aka "The Fun Police").

Look at the whinge Bracks had when the Typhoon came out.

Conspiracy Theory... maybe Bracks is on HSV's payroll or perhaps bed buddies with Crennan?

:

SSBUB · 06-07-2006, 05:15 PM

7 litres may not be too bad fuel wise if there is DOD - holden would have to market it well to show how 'good' it would be as a fuel saver....and holden do market their product very well.

ED turbo (mickmalta) · 06-07-2006, 07:24 PM

Typical holden........ overlook technology and make up for it by having the biggest motor....... I wonder if someone in head managment has a "size issue"?

EFFalcon · 06-07-2006, 07:26 PM

factory blown V8 or factory big V8....
i know which i'd want... especially with the ever increasing legality issues and emmisions problems.

gthofan · 06-07-2006, 07:36 PM

all i can say is ford better have big plans for the gt-ho

XR8MAD · 06-07-2006, 07:47 PM

7 litre V8 in a Holden. It would tear the Commodore apart!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

But I do have a soft spot for big blocks. Nothin a good stroker wont fix for Ford.

YuGoStaR · 06-07-2006, 08:27 PM

Why would you bother investing so much money into developing a 'Big Block' Falcon, when the amount of people willing to buy one would be next to nothing.
It's not logical. It seems to me all your concerned about is,
'Oh mines bigger than yours'

XR8MAD · 06-07-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuGoStaR

Why would you bother investing so much money into developing a 'Big Block' Falcon, when the amount of people willing to buy one would be next to nothing.
It's not logical. It seems to me all your concerned about is,
'Oh mines bigger than yours'

well it is mate!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

There is no substitute for cubic inches. End of story.

Full Spectrum · 07-07-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

Great, here comes the State Government (aka "The Fun Police").

Look at the whinge Bracks had when the Typhoon came out.

How easy is it to make a full stock XR6T into a 350kw car?. Wouldn't cost a great deal. And you could do it without doing anything to the car.
Take a VE GTS it will come with every option out there every safety feature it can grab it's price will show it.
Problems with turbos easy power gains at cheap prices thats why the Polly's are sooking.
I know people that pay around $3000+ to gain 50-100+kw. I knew a bloke that bought a VL and stuck a turbo engine in it and got 15psi boost. Factory boost was 7-8. Double the boost cheaper then a exhaust system. If you know people it will cost you a slab

.
A friend came by for a visit from Sydney last weekend. He drives a Saab turbo. Had the ECU remapped, The turbo now runs 15 psi boost. How easy was that.
Cost me $600 for a extra 10-20kw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucket

Conspiracy Theory... maybe Bracks is on HSV's payroll or perhaps bed buddies with Crennan?

:

He's a cat supporter so it has to be Ford:P

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthofan

all i can say is ford better have big plans for the gt-ho

Knowing HSV they will always keep the GTS-R up there sleeves. Unless this will be it?.

Fordoldie · 07-07-2006, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8MAD

7 litre V8 in a Holden. It would tear the Commodore apart!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
But I do have a soft spot for big blocks. Nothin a good stroker wont fix for Ford.

I saw a video clip the other day showing two 7 litre Monaros winning the Bathurst 24 Hr in 2003 and they were tearing everything else apart including GT3's and all the other expensive Euro racers

ClevlndStemer · 07-07-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

I saw a video clip the other day showing two 7 litre Monaros winning the Bathurst 24 Hr in 2003 and they were tearing everything else apart including GT3's and all the other expensive Euro racers

they were barely disguised V8 supercars.

As for the engine, well to be honest I don't see why FPV/Ford should do it right now. With the high fuel costs, public perception is big engine = big fuel bill. Ford/FPV are not really into building a couple of cars a year (ooops my bad fairlane and LTD

), so there has to be a decent business case to warrant it. Maybe they should wait to see how the GTS goes.

BA_Turbs · 07-07-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

How easy is it to make a full stock XR6T into a 350kw car?. Wouldn't cost a great deal. And you could do it without doing anything to the car.
Take a VE GTS it will come with every option out there every safety feature it can grab it's price will show it.
Problems with turbos easy power gains at cheap prices thats why the Polly's are sooking.
I know people that pay around $3000+ to gain 50-100+kw. I knew a bloke that bought a VL and stuck a turbo engine in it and got 15psi boost. Factory boost was 7-8. Double the boost cheaper then a exhaust system. If you know people it will cost you a slab

.
A friend came by for a visit from Sydney last weekend. He drives a Saab turbo. Had the ECU remapped, The turbo now runs 15 psi boost. How easy was that.
Cost me $600 for a extra 10-20kw.

He's a cat supporter so it has to be Ford:P

Knowing HSV they will always keep the GTS-R up there sleeves. Unless this will be it?.

I think the problem is power from factory, I don;t pollies would be smart enough to know the difference between V8s and Turbos would they? It the big numbers that the Herald Sun Cars Guide and Motor magazine run on their front page/cover that would be the cause for concern, not the fact that for $10K I could have enough after market power to complete with a supercar.

I just can't see how a vehicle with this sort of engine output would not come to the attention of the government.

Fordoldie · 07-07-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

they were barely disguised V8 supercars.

As for the engine, well to be honest I don't see why FPV/Ford should do it right now. With the high fuel costs, public perception is big engine = big fuel bill. Ford/FPV are not really into building a couple of cars a year (ooops my bad fairlane and LTD

), so there has to be a decent business case to warrant it. Maybe they should wait to see how the GTS goes.

They may have been but my point was they weren't being torn apart as XR8MAD suggested.

I think Ford have to get the current V8 handling better before giving it more power. The BF has improved from BAII but not that much. I dont think the current chassis is set up for too much forward weight over the front so we wont be seeing any changes until the next platform. Thats why Ford have persisted with the Turbo so much. Perhaps they would love to have an answer but they just cant do it with what they have

SSBUB · 07-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED turbo (mickmalta)

Typical holden........ overlook technology and make up for it by having the biggest motor....... I wonder if someone in head managment has a "size issue"?

yeah coz holden technology is really crap.....

:

nat_daly · 07-07-2006, 12:19 PM

the new HSV will need that much power. dont be suprised if it's nearlly tipping the 2tonne mark

Fordoldie · 07-07-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED turbo (mickmalta)

Typical holden........ overlook technology and make up for it by having the biggest motor....... I wonder if someone in head managment has a "size issue"?

I'm a V8 fan in general and respect many engines from different brands so what technology have they overlooked? Seems to me they have done pretty well of late with modern engines all through the range and the bigger the V8 the more economical they have been getting

BENT_8 · 07-07-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

I'm a V8 fan in general and respect many engines from different brands so what technology have they overlooked? Seems to me they have done pretty well of late with modern engines all through the range and the bigger the V8 the more economical they have been getting

I think Toyota have set the standards for drawing power from smaller engines eg. 100kw from a 1.6l 20yr old corolla.
Until Holden realise that multiple cams and atleast 3 valves per cyl. is the way to develop power in the future, i believe they will struggle as the perception of bigger is more expensive to run.
Holden may win the race and 20% of the market but i think Ford will win at the bowser with the penny conscious buyer.