more job losses Ford Australia

[simon varley]

well, after taking my leave as part of the May redundancies, I just heard today that there are potentially more job losses coming. I can't see this ending well

[randel]

Sad to hear this....

[GT1533]

These ones?

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...-and-designers

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

A question for those more in the know than me, in this field.

The article suggests that the redundancies are associated with the end of the product development cycle of the current model Ranger/Everest. So, presumably, the numbers increased prior to the start of that cycle? And, if the responsibility for the development of the Ranger/Everest remains in Aus in the future, then around the start of the next cycle, a similar number of engineers will need to be recruited? If Ford are expecting to continue the boom/bust cycle of employment, surely there's risk with not being able to get the right talent/talent retention? The alternatives are that you give them other products between the single platform development cycle to keep them gainfully employed and retain the best talent, or you outsource the development to other parts of the business.

So, where's this heading?

[au2000]

Not that this is a related field.. but in my job many years ago we had hired a number of fixed term employees for a 2 year period.. at the end of the 2 years they were all gone. So were these staff hired on a similar condition? Stay on until ranger / everest are completed ?
Or were these ongoing staff who thought they had an ongoing role? Were they apprentices so to speak who werr just hired to get some experience and help the established staffing group?

[vbomber]

Originally Posted by simon varley

well, after taking my leave as part of the May redundancies, I just heard today that there are potentially more job losses coming. I can't see this ending well

They were 80 people short in taking redundancies, mate was talked out of applying for it but may look to take it now and with the latest news might be...

[lra]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

So, where's this heading?

Eventually, to the same place as Holden.
Why would Ford keep Australians in design and engineering jobs to tide them over until the next Ranger, or whatever.
Take a look at the jobs that Holden did for GM, and received stuff-all in accolades for their efforts, and I am not referring just to Pontiac / Chev SS / Camaro.
It is all about the corporation money and profits, and I don't think that much Australian patriotism and welfare exists in Ford USA HQ.

[Syndrome]

So it is curtains for the Ranger Car Company of Australia?

[simon varley]

yes, the company did hire up for next gen, but a lot of those roles were agency not full time. This round of redundencies is aimed at the full time salary positions, with a few hourly to round it out.

when I left six weeks ago the message was definitely about reduced workload due to the development cycle of T6. the next few years will largely be freshening work so many less engineers required. The company say that Australia remains the lead for Ranger/Everest, but the truth is that there have always been ongoing discussions about combining with F150, so thats never been guaranteed

this round of cuts is spoken about on terms of efficiencies. There's a global push for a 25% efficiency improvement of which significant numbers have already gone in America and Europe. I think it's just Australia's turn now :(

I don't know, but it sure feels like the start of the end, to me.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

I don't know, but it sure feels like the start of the end, to me.

Except that was in 2016,

I reckon they'll be completely gone in Australia by 2028

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I reckon they'll be completely gone in Australia by 2028

Captain obvious here... But unless Ford can make a splash and do volume in the EV market, they will be gone by 2030, same with any other car manufacturer doing business in Oz.

[Citroënbender]

It speaks to how a global marketplace sees Australia; generally incapable of noteworthy production.

[lra]

By 2028 > 2030, Australia will be awash with Chinese made EVs ........ some maybe even with Ford badges. A small 'Territory' and a SUV 'Falcon' ......... yeah, baby !

If we are still 'friends' with China. If Chinese EVs show that they do not self-immolate in public or private. If they last longer than 5 years without falling apart.

[roKWiz]

By then it probably won't matter as we will be just another province of China.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

The company say that Australia remains the lead for Ranger/Everest, but the truth is that there have always been ongoing discussions about combining with F150, so thats never been guaranteed

There was always that US-sourced model 'sword of Damocles' hanging over the Falcon when in production (they tried it too with the 90's Taurus, har har!)

Good luck to all staff & best wishes for greener pastures overseas or in other areas, if they want this. And I wish Australia had an Australian owned car builder that was patriotic and dedicated to designing building from here for the world on their own terms. Subs and frigates will have to do for now.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

There was always that US-sourced model 'sword of Damocles' hanging over the Falcon when in production (they tried it too with the 90's Taurus, har har!)

Good luck to all staff & best wishes for greener pastures overseas or in other areas, if they want this. And I wish Australia had an Australian owned car builder that was patriotic and dedicated to designing building from here for the world on their own terms. Subs and frigates will have to do for now.

Thankfully the Taurus failed. Pity the Taurus inspired AU design was already locked in before Dearborn realised the AU was as popular as an Edsel.

[zilo]

Dinosaurs like Ford and GM have been indenial mode for eternity.

Even a drovers'dog can see that EV's are the future...not V8's or utes

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Except that was in 2016,

not for engineering. we've never been busier

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by zilo

Even a drovers'dog can see that EV's are the future...not V8's or utes

short term sure, and as usual FMC are playing catchup. I'm far from convinced battery electric cars are here for the long term though given all the cost/weight/end-of-life issues, not to mention the infrastructure needed.

plenty of companies are looking at alternative fuel ICE engines. Hydrogen is progressing and so are many different biofuel options. Hydrogen fuel cell is also a possibility.

H2 is probably still a fair way from serious production but the e-fuels are already here, and are compatible with existing infrastructure

unfortunately, I'm not aware that FMC are looking at these options

[au2000]

Sadly the comment re future ranger models being considered to be combined on the f150 platform is no surprise, it was raised a few years back and in typical yank form at some point they will get jealous of what the team in vic can do….
Insert .. no Aussie falcons to the usa here…
Hope it’s not all wound up for Australia, but it would not be the first time that ford USA kills off what works here and implements their own ideas

[b0son]

Originally Posted by simon varley

unfortunately, I'm not aware that FMC are looking at these options

One day, someone will come up with batteries that use materials one can get from the sea (eg. sodium instead of lithium) or the air (eg. graphite from CO2), rather than rare-earth metals. At that point, the sustainability of EVs becomes irrelevant, and so too, does H2.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

unfortunately, I'm not aware that FMC are looking at these options

Simon, wouldn't Ford have E85 and E100 ecotec 4's and V6's for the Brazil market already?

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Except that was in 2016,

I reckon they'll be completely gone in Australia by 2028

Big call that one.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by au2000

Sadly the comment re future ranger models being considered to be combined on the f150 platform is no surprise, it was raised a few years back and in typical yank form at some point they will get jealous of what the team in vic can do….
Insert .. no Aussie falcons to the usa here…
Hope it’s not all wound up for Australia, but it would not be the first time that ford USA kills off what works here and implements their own ideas

I still think the 300,000+ global sales of Ranger means it needs to be a separate vehicle which sells into far more countries than Ford US has ever had to deal with. Unless Ford US can develop a vehicle for two size classes and not add too much cost/weight to the smaller version....and the whole reason Ford is going through the global redundancies including at Ford China is mostly due to reducing product development costs, their efficiency being worse than some competitors for R&D....except for Ford Australia's engineering team which easily ranks more efficient than the other Ford development centres when you combine quality of talent, expertise and cost.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Simon, wouldn't Ford have E85 and E100 ecotec 4's and V6's for the Brazil market already?

historically yes, but a quick look at their web site, and my rubbish Portuguese says no, not today. and anyway 'old' ethanol fuels made from crop planted when the forests are trashed aren't significantly better for the environment than petroleum based fuels.

there's a lot of work going on with fully synthetic fuels that looks interesting

https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/

[CyberWasp]

They should be growing the Australian division and reducing the American one if they want to improve efficiencies.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

They should be growing the Australian division and reducing the American one if they want to improve efficiencies.

WE all know that but you would probably last 3 seconds as CEO of Ford if you even suggested thinking about it and imagine what their unions would do. I could only dream what a Ford Australia led team would have created if Territory was turned into the global Edge or even Explorer with access to all the Ford global tech.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

WE all know that but you would probably last 3 seconds as CEO of Ford if you even suggested thinking about it and imagine what their unions would do. I could only dream what a Ford Australia led team would have created if Territory was turned into the global Edge or even Explorer with access to all the Ford global tech.

It’s not about American unions, Farley and Ford are committed to widespread electrification as a way
of increasing profits and reducing their exposure to ever tightening emissions and fuel economy constraints.
You can tell that they want to control anything that can be profitable especially the Bronco and with it Ranger/Everest.



The next six years are not going to see much change with Ranger and Everest but suddenly Ford will offer hybrid and
BEV versions of both to match other brands and diesel Utes will practically disappear within a year or two (2030?)
Most of us can’t imagine that because it just doesn’t make sense today but will when batteries and charging are better.

[Late braker]

Originally Posted by lra

By 2028 > 2030, Australia will be awash with Chinese made EVs ........ some maybe even with Ford badges. A small 'Territory' and a SUV 'Falcon' ......... yeah, baby !

If we are still 'friends' with China. If Chinese EVs show that they do not self-immolate in public or private. If they last longer than 5 years without falling apart.

Terrible.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s not about American unions, Farley and Ford are committed to widespread electrification as a way
of increasing profits and reducing their exposure to ever tightening emissions and fuel economy constraints.
You can tell that they want to control anything that can be profitable especially the Bronco and with it Ranger/Everest.



The next six years are not going to see much change with Ranger and Everest but suddenly Ford will offer hybrid and
BEV versions of both to match other brands and diesel Utes will practically disappear within a year or two (2030?)
Most of us can’t imagine that because it just doesn’t make sense today but will when batteries and charging are better.

This deal they've done in America to build the battery plants Is a step in the right direction , but there is so much money invested in developing battery tech you can't keep up with the leaders
Ford need to find a way to leap frog the masses with some tech unique to them , like Tesla have ......if they can't then they're going to be heading for a slippery slope like a lot of others especially the Japanese