Buying a brand new car, the costs involved?

smokiebbear · 13-02-2009, 07:54 PM

Hi all - I have posted this over at the ls1 forum also but i'm looking for some opinions from the other side of the fence

I am currently shopping around for a new tractor for the missus. I have narrowed it down to ...

1. Nissan Micra - (1.4l - 72kW)
2. Holden Barina (1.6l - 76kW)
3. Ford Fiesta (new 1.4l 71kW and runout model 1.6l - 82kW)
4. Mazda 2 (1.5l - 76 kW)
5. XR4 (2.0l -110kw) - 22k driveaway

I have been quoted around $1500 for dealer delivery

Most of these cars are around the 18 -20k driveaway. The car has to be auto as the missus doen't have a manual licence. I have not yet started to haggle them down any or ask for a few extras thrown in as I don't know how much room there is to move on a car that is only 18 -20k. Anyone know how much I should be able to get them down to in the current market (please if your just guessing don't reply i'm looking for real world experience only).

I was wondering if possible you could get a 20k driveaway car down to say 17k driveaway with a few extras or maybe even 18k driveaway with alloy wheels. Do car dealers have much room to negotiate on this as i think $1500 dealer delivery to have a car dropped off at the lot and a $2 cut an polish a bit steep.

cheers - matthew

kiwijohn42 · 13-02-2009, 09:10 PM

XR4 is manual only
You might get a deal on a run out Fiesta, but no chance on a new one. The supply is too limited. The auto doesn't come cheap either.

smokiebbear · 13-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn42

XR4 is manual only
You might get a deal on a run out Fiesta, but no chance on a new one. The supply is too limited. The auto doesn't come cheap either.

Aah silly me I didn't realise the xr4 was manual only :(

I guess the best bet is the older fiesta which is the one we are keen on as it's at least a 1.6l auto compared to the new 1.4l

kiwijohn42 · 13-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Mazda 2 ain't a bad car, been out long enough you might be able to get them to shift.
Micra is fairly new & as for the Barina? [Shudders]
They went to a 1.4 in the new Fiesta for better economy, not performance.

bdesigns · 14-02-2009, 01:25 AM

With the Mazda 2 i also heard it was a pretty good car, however the interior i think is a bit cheap. (alot of hollow plastics i think)

With the new Fiesta, i dont really think an auto will be worth it since, as you know already, its 1.4L. With the others, im not that sure since i dont have much experience with them.

About buying a car, pretty much the price you should start of is 10%-15% off the whole price (inc on road costs etc.) Also chuck in as much extras at this time so you can cancel them later so it seems like they are making more of a deal. (paint protection, tints, mats etc). Then after the torturest haggling, you should get at least 8% off the car.

Just make sure you are prepared to travel to a few dealers in one day and have 10% deposit ready.

When i bought the new fiesta, (RRP $24700 on road) i went to the dealer, hi, i want to buy a car today and im going to a few dealers. Who ever can get closest to 21k, i will buy it. In the end, i got it for 22k inc some features.

New car or not, the car industry is pretty bad at the moment, so they will always be prepared to drop the dealer delivery and stop duty.

Anyways, good luck with the car buying! Have you ever thought about the Honda Jazz? its a pretty damn good car..

Candyman2 · 14-02-2009, 12:16 PM

With the new Fiesta, given it is a totally new model and stock is extremely limited, don't expect to get much off.

Buying the new Fiesta is very unlike buying a new car of a current model in good supply.

Having evaluated the Mazda2, the Yaris, the Barina, the Jazz and the Swift, the Fiesta was well ahead both in quality and the driving experience.

I know you have to get an auto and while I have bought the manual, the Fiesta auto would still be my pick of the bunch you mention.

If you can't wait for the Fiesta, the Mazda2 would be my pick

greenfoam · 14-02-2009, 12:21 PM

The official word from Ford Australia is the 1.4L choice on the auto fiesta was for economy. But I've read elsewhere that's the torque limit of the auto box they are using and that's why you can't have the 1.6L in it (to me that's more believable since it's not even an option). My wifes never driven a manual car more than a few times in her life but she learnt so she could have the new fiesta. Have you seen the I30? that was probably going to be the second choice. There's not much deals to be done on the new fiesta since they are selling more than they can build at retail price anyway but you might get it for 1000 less or so

LethalLeigh · 14-02-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

The official word from Ford Australia is the 1.4L choice on the auto fiesta was for economy. But I've read elsewhere that's the torque limit of the auto box they are using and that's why you can't have the 1.6L in it (to me that's more believable since it's not even an option). My wifes never driven a manual car more than a few times in her life but she learnt so she could have the new fiesta. Have you seen the I30? that was probably going to be the second choice. There's not much deals to be done on the new fiesta since they are selling more than they can build at retail price anyway but you might get it for 1000 less or so

Very much on the money there. Whilst there is of course a set profit margin with these cars, it's all a matter of how much the dealer is willing to let it go for. There's plenty of factors involved, I'm sure you know the stories of good deals at the end of the month etc, it can happen.

At the end of the day I think you do very well to have your on roads covered by a dealer, keeping in mind this is where a big chunk of the initial perceived depreciation comes from.

As for the car itself smokiebbear, is there anything else you need from it or is price your main motivator here?

smokiebbear · 14-02-2009, 03:11 PM

Price is the main thing we are looking at. We don't need a new car for her as her current one is fine but we thought with all the good deals around at the moment then maybe we should get one. I have been to at least 10 dealers over the last 2 days and none of them were prepared to budge on price. We have decided on a runout fiesta and a new mazda 2. There is an 08 stock runout for mazda 2 for the Mazda 2 Maxx (middle of the range version) for a 3 door they are rrp 19,800 driveaway of thereabouts. The sales rep asked how much I was looking at spending and I said max 18k.

He asked if it was a finance issue, i advised no my finance is approved all i need to do is apply but that I currently have 2 loans at my bank and am paying one out in cash to do this and they have advised they see no issue why it will not be approved straight away as I have never missed a payment in 3 years of having loans with them and my credit card with them is hardly ever in the red. Being a joint loan with the missus she has 5k in a savings account also but we are looking to loan the full amount as the money she has saved is for a house in the next 2 years.

The bank has basically given me the green light to go out and find a car between 15 and 20k and then to drop in and see them and they will have it approved that day as they have done a quick test and found that it falls well under their limit and that the payment would be no more than i'm currently paying off my bike loan which is to be paid in full prior to the new loan.

Unfortunatly it just seems they do not want to do business because they asked if i needed finance, which i said no it is all good i have the green light i just need to put forth the application for what i require, then i was asked can i get more than the 18 i was looking at spending i replied yes but i don't want to, then they have all tried to get me to do in house finance with them.

I have advised all of them that i spoke with that i am definalty going to buy car but i just need a good deal and that i am only looking at spending 18k. They do not try and haggle with me about the price they just go "oh ok, well no worries if you want to buy this it's rrp and heres my card, bye". I mean seriously rrp is just that and i know they can go lower and its starting to peeve me off that not one of them has said something like "if we can work out a cheaper price would you be prepared to go ahead today?" or "i understand your only looking at spending a certain amount, what would we need to do to get you behind the wheel of one of these today?" or even "The price is rrp however we are prepared to negotiate if you'd like to come and take a seat inside and run through the finer points of it. If we can come down in price a little would you be prepared to sign the forms today?"

Seriously the sales reps I have spoken with are just wasting my time and theirs, only idiots pay rrp and i have advised them that i'm a serious buyer and been upfront with how much i'm prepared to spend yet they have not tried to negotiate once. There was even one who wanted 17k for a second hand swift and I told him if he was prepared to take 15k we'd have a deal. He said nope sorry its 17k but if you can only get 15k from the bank you must have a credit card you can put the rest on :O" I thought they were struggling to make sales but it appears they are not in need of my money anyhow.

I have found this process extremely frustrating as being in sales myself i would never treat a customer that way or walk away from them just because they aren't prepared to pay rrp. The problems i have encountered seem to be sales reps that are only interested in me paying top dollar and anything less they just brush me off, i haven't even found one prepared to negotiate which is why on monday or tuesday i'll be walking in and speaking directly with the sales managers at ford and mazda for a no bullshyte bottom line price and signing the paperwork. I have been honest with them about how much i am wanting to spend, my finances etc etc and even advised no i do not have the loan "approved" but that my bank have said that it will be and we just have to go through the formalities such as a credit check to whick nothing has changed since the last time we got a joint loan through them except that the missus makes more money now.

From their point of view they should consider me a cash buyer that has the money ready to sign the deal monday afternoon at the latest once a price is agreed upon and the bank has been informed how much money they need to write a cheque out for.

I know they have well over a 10% margin and all i'm asking for is 10% off the rrp. I would have thought making $1000 profit on a sale only is still better than not makning any money and having the car sit there another 3 months.

LethalLeigh · 15-02-2009, 03:02 AM

There's a couple of things to keep in mind here. The question of finance pops up because it's another avenue in which the dealership can make money. Without that opportunity they may be less willing to negotiate. Cash sales is an old concept that has little credence in an industry that needs its books looking 100%. The idea that you can get something knocked off because you have cash is no longer valid.

After a couple of years in the industry previously, I'll still maintain that my least favourite customer is someone who's only focus is price. If I got a customer who clearly showed that's all they were interested in and they had no qualms about walking, I'd let them walk. I like my customers to actually want my product.

I've no doubt you are keen on a car, but I don't know if you have given them that impression yet as silly as that sounds. Something is only worth as much as you're willing to pay for it and the more you worry about how good a deal you get, the more you worry about whether what you bought was worth it in the first place.