LPG, The End!!

[RASER]

Game Over?

Not good, but seeing prices work on supply/demand, might just be ok for us long term users [i.e. me!]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226363867011

&
http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226364134999

[Yellow_Festiva]

If that stat is correct it is a huge dive.... Must be based on conversions as well? Has the rebate stopped this year?

LPG won't be going anywhere any time soon. Even if sales of LPG cars totally stopped, the cars already on the road will still need refueling for a very long time... It's not like Super, where they can just apply an additive and use unleaded!

CNG??? Lots of other countries use it like we use LPG!

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

If that stat is correct it is a huge dive.... Must be based on conversions as well? Has the rebate stopped this year?

LPG won't be going anywhere any time soon. Even if sales of LPG cars totally stopped, the cars already on the road will still need refueling for a very long time... It's not like Super, where they can just apply an additive and use unleaded!

CNG??? Lots of other countries use it like we use LPG!

If no new cars on LPG, mean's LPG price will sky rocket.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by xisled

If no new cars on LPG, mean's LPG price will sky rocket.

Could be right... this may have been in the works for a while as LPG was already nearing $1 a while back but has pulled back a little to what... 75-80c?

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Could be right... this may have been in the works for a while as LPG was already nearing $1 a while back but has pulled back a little to what... 75-80c?

I think it is around that price. Not to sure as I dont use LPG. But I can see price increase due to no new cars and petrol stations having to stock LPGfor a select market.

Even Taxis which were once the biggest part of LPG are now looking at downsizing to hybrids and 4 cylinder.

[prydey]

i think its a combination of things.

new cars require the newer tech conversions. vapour and liquid injection. these are still quite pricy ($4k+). the rebate has dropped to $1k. there is also the added excise which though small, still scares people due to warranted trust issues with the govt and fuel excise.

lpg conversions used to be around $1k. the rebate kicked in and they went to $3k+ overnight. lpg installers claimed it wasn't them making the profit but someone was. as the rebate has reduced, so has the conversion price.

it was similar with rainwater tanks. govt offered a rebate and suddenly there were tank outlets on every corner. rebate died, so did the tank outlets. now we just have the ones that were always there.

many people are a lot smarter than govt and big businesses give them credit for. i've had lpg cars in the past but the conversion cost puts me off. longest i have kept a car is 4-5 years. lately its been about 2 years. i only do 10-15000km/yr so i would never pay the system off. i'm sure many others are in that situation.

i think the situation will stabilise though.

[xisled]

I think alot of this is to do with fleet cars also.

Previous years they choose Holden or Ford.

In most recent years companies have been gooing green and opting for smaller 4 cylinder cars, that do not have gas.

[GasoLane]

Must have been a slow news day there.

LPG was going ok before the rebate (I had mine fitted 2 months before it came in )

Either way it's still about half the price of regular ULP and a long way under the Premium ULP.

[last fairlane]

Here we go again less LPG cars on the road so less fuel is sold
so the price goes up
werent we told that earlier this year Russia and Europe
had a cold winter and used a lot of LPG so the price went up
these prks want it both ways
wasnt supply and demand the basis for lower prices
Coles and Woollies are cheaper than you local corner store
because they have more demand so have lower prices
I know its not that simple
but give us a break
you cant have it both ways
or maybe you can
John
25 year LPG user

[ute83]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

Here we go again less LPG cars on the road so less fuel is sold
so the price goes up
werent we told that earlier this year Russia and Europe
had a cold winter and used a lot of LPG so the price went up
these prks want it both ways
wasnt supply and demand the basis for lower prices
Coles and Woollies are cheaper than you local corner store
because they have more demand so have lower prices
I know its not that simple
but give us a break
you cant have it both ways
or maybe you can
John
25 year LPG user

Spot on. One simple way to get more people to buy LPG conversions is to lower the price of the stuff. The profit the oil companies are making on LPG is crazy.

[turbodewd]

Australia is the biggest user of autogas/LPG - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogas

More people should buy the EcoLPI - it sound fantastic. Slightly more power and torque than petrol AND greener AND fuel is around half the price.

[@ 74.7c/L in ACT near where I live.]

The key figure is really about total consumption of LPG Oz-wide, those are the figures Id like to hear about.

This is an Aussie industry that govt shud support.

(should is the stupidest spelling!)

[graham7773]

Stats saying 13000+ down to 244 new cars fitted with LPG in one year??? There would have been more than 244 taxis sold in that year across Australia and every one of them fitted with LPG systems. Are they not counted? In 2009 there were 18806 taxis in Australia and they are replaced every few years. 244 new vehicles with LPG is just wrong! more like 2440 just in new taxis. Where are the stats being drawn from?

[sgt_doofey]

Less cars running LPG would mean a fall in the price of LPG. Simple supply and demand. If the supply is therebut the demand isn't, then the price will fall to generate demand.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by xisled

If no new cars on LPG, mean's LPG price will sky rocket.

Maybe not, if everybody switched to electric cars over night and I mean everybody, then the price of oil would plummet. It is demand that increases the price not the lack of it.

Bud Bud

Edit: Sorry sgt doofey, I should have read to the bottom before I posted. What he said.

Bud Bud

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by graham7773

Stats saying 13000+ down to 244 new cars fitted with LPG in one year??? There would have been more than 244 taxis sold in that year across Australia and every one of them fitted with LPG systems. Are they not counted? In 2009 there were 18806 taxis in Australia and they are replaced every few years. 244 new vehicles with LPG is just wrong! more like 2440 just in new taxis. Where are the stats being drawn from?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but prior to the new commodore LPG option, the only other brand new LPG option fitted from factory was the Falcon.

For a large portion of last year, you couldn't get an E-Gas or an EcoLPI.

Doesn't that account of the large drop?

[TMC]

OK, when the prices went through the roof in Jan and Feb, everyone said that due to the INCREASE in LPG vehicles on the road, the government could now classify LPG no longer as an "alternative fuel" and could justifiably whack an excise on it. Now, 3 months later, no one is using it any more? In that case take the excise off it, and where is the issue in not having enough money to supply the rebates?????? If no one is converting, then you need no money in the rebate scheme.

LPG has been one weird commodity of late.

[aquahead2001]

I bought LPG in Geelong on the weekend and it was 68.9CPL, this is a significant price drop from the 85CPL it reached around Jan 2012.

The article says "new" which implies cars manufactured with LPG installed or fitted prior sale. Most Taxis are second hand now so have LPG fitted as they are being prep’d as a Taxi, so are not included in these figures. Don't forget both Ford and Holden stopped selling LPG vehicles for a fair while due to the move to Euro 4 and have both taken an eternity to get their new LPG power models out in the market.

Personally, I think the both Ford and Holden have also backed a knobbled horse with LPG. The recent price volatility (price gauging) and the government’s desire to have us all back in the stone age with private transport means that it will go back to a fuel used only on ultra-high mileage vehicles such as taxis until they go for hybrid/diesel/solar/compressed air/hydrogen/KERS powered quadracycles with an elastic band back up…

[Cúl-Báire]

Originally Posted by graham7773

Stats saying 13000+ down to 244 new cars fitted with LPG in one year??? There would have been more than 244 taxis sold in that year across Australia and every one of them fitted with LPG systems. Are they not counted? In 2009 there were 18806 taxis in Australia and they are replaced every few years. 244 new vehicles with LPG is just wrong! more like 2440 just in new taxis. Where are the stats being drawn from?

I thought that stat sounded really sus as well!

[gtfpv]

DISHEARTENED . CHECK MY THREAD ON XTRAIL .
my xr6 is coming off lease in january . the govt has ruined any chance of a re lease . i was considering buying it and converting it to LPG . it seems not viable anymore either . i may sell it and down size to a medium 4cy for work . its sad . but if holden and ford cannot compete and our govt dont support us . instead of leasing a falcon , or buying one on lpg , i'll buy a 4cy , cheaper and better technology and alsmot the same size if not biggger than my 2nd hand fg . i never thought i would see the day . i'm not far off tears reading this , but i simply cant afford over $200 a week in petrol costs anymore . if lpg savings arent there anymore .
i can sell my fg xr6 and buy an equal SUV , FOR LESS AND SAVE .
sorry ford .
from now on its a performance fpv weekender for me , and a practicle import .

[sgt_doofey]

gtfpv, with current prices, an LPG powered 6 is still going to be cheaper than a petrol powered 4. It's really a matter of sitting down, doing the sums and seeing when the conversion would pay for itself.
I've personally been running LPG for 13 years now and have saved a bucket load over that time.

[Ducati888]

The reduction in new LPG conversions by the average motorist could be caused by the uptake of diesel vehicles. Ten years ago nothing except trucks and 4X4's had it, but now the dirty fuel is trendy, and there is a mistaken perception that it's economical. It's not. It gets better economy than petrol, but not significantly in a city run where most cars spend most of their time. If you look at the weight of the vehicles a lot of diesel engines are lugging around, 9 - 10 L/100 in a diesel is pretty woeful really given how much it costs per litre.

LPG was never trendy, but it still makes better sense than petrol or diesel, mainly because it's far less poluting, it's half the price, and services are on par with petrol engines (no particulate filters). The problem is that I believe the common motorist is scared of having a gas tank in their boot, you lose space from the tank, and they see the filling method as complicated. Neither are in reality a problem or a risk, but lets face it, the common motorist is not that intelligent.

[gtfpv]

i ran lpg from 1992 to 2009 on my falcons . after doing my installers course .
the only reason i leased a car is because i could buy a new falcon and lease it on petrol for mot much more than running a 2nd hand falcon on LPG . THE GOVT MADE SURE that wont be continuing , they also made sure its not worth converting to lpg any more since the conversion cost went up 300% , but the rebate compensated , now thats been removed too .
nice one . nissan is looking pretty good . so is an old au falcon .
it simply isnt worth it anymore .

[sgt_doofey]

Ducatti, you've obviously never driven a modern Euro diesel then. Our Peugeot 307 2.0L HDi consistently returns 6L/100kms. On a cost per kilometre compared to my EL duel fuel, they are pretty much neck and neck. If I were to go for a new FG EcoLPi, then LPG would definitely be cheaper, but not by too much.

[mik]

i`m thinking also the market may be shrinking, companies are tightening up any way they can for the new carbon tax, , it would`nt surprise me if many companies that had large fleets of company cars where looking at ways of doing with less cars full stop.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Ducatti, you've obviously never driven a modern Euro diesel then. Our Peugeot 307 2.0L HDi consistently returns 6L/100kms. On a cost per kilometre compared to my EL duel fuel, they are pretty much neck and neck. If I were to go for a new FG EcoLPi, then LPG would definitely be cheaper, but not by too much.

Correct mate I haven't driven a modern diesel. I've got a Prado on LPG and a Verada on LPG, but I mostly ride a motorbike to work, get there in half the time of a car commuter and get 4L/100.

You need to compare cars of similar size. Your Peugeot is not the same size or class as an EL Falcon, nor is it the same size or class as a 2 tonne 4X4 or SUV. 6L/100K is not much better (if at all) than a Corolla, Mazda 3 or Focus, in reality, is it? What are your servicing costs, compared to those cars as well? Apples for apples.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Ducatti, you've obviously never driven a modern Euro diesel then. Our Peugeot 307 2.0L HDi consistently returns 6L/100kms. On a cost per kilometre compared to my EL duel fuel, they are pretty much neck and neck. If I were to go for a new FG EcoLPi, then LPG would definitely be cheaper, but not by too much.

Can the Peugeot tow 2300kg?

Can it carry 5 blokes?

Not really the same size vehicle or engine size really, is it?

[RASER]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

DISHEARTENED . CHECK MY THREAD ON XTRAIL .
my xr6 is coming off lease in january . the govt has ruined any chance of a re lease . i was considering buying it and converting it to LPG . it seems not viable anymore either . i may sell it and down size to a medium 4cy for work . its sad . but if holden and ford cannot compete and our govt dont support us . instead of leasing a falcon , or buying one on lpg , i'll buy a 4cy , cheaper and better technology and alsmot the same size if not biggger than my 2nd hand fg . i never thought i would see the day . i'm not far off tears reading this , but i simply cant afford over $200 a week in petrol costs anymore . if lpg savings arent there anymore .
i can sell my fg xr6 and buy an equal SUV , FOR LESS AND SAVE .
sorry ford .
from now on its a performance fpv weekender for me , and a practicle import .

The only other option to *consider* is a Hybrid Camry, not the old model but the just released new one, not sure if they are still doing $30k driveaway though, well worth a test drive

[BLDNUT01]

Lpg is .90cents here in Townsville and only Shell up here seem to sell it so not much incentive here

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by RASER

The only other option to *consider* is a Hybrid Camry, not the old model but the just released new one, not sure if they are still doing $30k driveaway though, well worth a test drive

Aren't Hybrids only good in the city though. I thought when on country drives they used the petrol engine?

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by RASER

Can the Peugeot tow 2300kg?

Can it carry 5 blokes?

Not really the same size vehicle or engine size really, is it?

No, it can tow 1400kgs behind the 6 speed manual box. I can't compare like to like as Ford don't offer a manual in the Falcon, but I reckon from memory it was about 1600kgs for a manual Falcon for towing wasn't it?
I've had 5 blokes in it whilst driving Adelaide to Melbourne and back again. A little squished but not too many complaints.
The boot in my Pug is probably the same size as the Falcon too as we have the wagon. Approx 550L from memory. The advantage the Pug has is fold flat rear seats which give me over 1500L of boot space should I need it. Can you fit a two seat lounge chair in the back of a Falcon?

No, they aren't the same class of vehicles. The Pug loses out to the Falcon in rear seat space. It's just not there compared to the large sedan.
I also have a Falcon for towing so haven't even bothered with a tow bar for the Pug. The EL is up for replacement and I'm trying to convince the other half to go with another Falcon as it fits all of our needs perfectly. Take out the rear passenger room, and the Falcon is on par with other cars for most other features.

Each.car has it's pros.and cons and fulfill different needs.