FPV engine in the New Mustangs ?????

X ORSMXR · 12-04-2006, 11:14 PM

Hi guys just reading on a U.S. site that Ford US are looking to go with the boss 290 in the Mustang to compete with the new Comaro.
this is what was said.

GM car-czar Bob Lutz is on the record stating that “if” GM were to
build a Camaro, it would be designed to sell at volumes similar to
the Mustang’s—100,000 to 150,000 per year. He acknowledges
that, to do so, it would have to offer an entry-level V-6 model priced
just over $20,000. There’d also have to be an affordable V-8 model
priced under $30,000. In response to questions about the
Camaro concept’s 25-horsepower deficit relative to Dodge’s
retro-muscle Challenger show car, he quipped that, should the
need arise, the Corvette Z06’s LS7 V-8 stands ready to outmuscle
Dodge’s Hemi by 80 horsepower. (Surely, Chevy will resurrect the
hallowed ZL1 nomenclature for this modern-day all-aluminum
427.6-cubic-inch Camaro.)

We know the mainstream V-8 version—let’s call it the Z28—won’t
get the LS2 Corvette engine shown in the concept car, although the
current GTO has it, so anything is possible. Instead, sources
suggest it’ll run a closely related aluminum 6.2-liter like the one
bowing in the 2007 Escalade, featuring cylinder-shutoff. It should
twist the dyno needles to around 400 on the horsepower and
pound-feet scales. The theory is, since Chevy is arriving late at the
retro-muscle party, it had better make a splashy entrance, and 400
horsepower should trump the Mustang GT.

Don’t expect the original ponycar to stand pat at 300 horses,
though. Under Phil Martens, the Mustang team reportedly was
readying a slew of special-edition ’Stangs, of which all have been
canceled, we hear, except the “Boss” variant. Word has it that
power for this big horse will come from a 5.4-liter version of the
modular V-8 engine. Much Internet speculation suggests it’ll pack
the Australian “Boss 290” 32-valve 5.4-liter. That iron-block wonder
develops 389 horsepower (290 kilowatts down under) and 384
pound-feet—a bit shy of the Camaro’s anticipated output, but not so
much that astute gearing, tire selection, etc. might give the Ford an
edge. Shall we call it Boss 330, in keeping with Ford’s local tradition
of cubic-inch numeration?

apolloxbgt · 12-04-2006, 11:22 PM

Interesting,wonder if they would assemble them here,that would be a huge boost for fpv.It's good news for them (fpv)that there even speculating it,they obviously have a lot of respect within ford u.s.

chevypower · 12-04-2006, 11:48 PM

yeah right, ship an American engine to Australia in parts for assembly (high labor costs) then export it back to the US to car production..... if they are seriously considering this, then no wonder these car companies are struggling to make money

apolloxbgt · 12-04-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

yeah right, ship an American engine to Australia in parts for assembly (high labor costs) then export it back to the US to car production..... if they are seriously considering this, then no wonder these car companies are struggling to make money

I may be wrong,but don't gm do that already with the monaro?

svo347 · 12-04-2006, 11:56 PM

Yep....

chevypower · 12-04-2006, 11:56 PM

they ship the engine here complete and put it in the car and ship the whole thing back, as it is stupid to send a nearly completed car that cant be driven, to the US to another assembly plant to receive an engine - that one makes sense,

but to ship the engine block, heads etc to Australia
bolt it together here, and ship it back...STUPID!

AWD Chaser · 12-04-2006, 11:57 PM

Sounds good - Ford Vs. Holden in America, except slighlty different badges! Nice score for FPV to even be getting word about the Boss engine over there! Makes us seem like we have alot of Muscle car dev. going on to the rest of the world...

CAMS290 · 13-04-2006, 12:03 AM

And the yanks said that the 5.4 triton block with the Cobra R type heads wouldnt work in the first place.

:

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Go Aussies !!

apolloxbgt · 13-04-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

they ship the engine here complete and put it in the car and ship the whole thing back, as it is stupid to send a nearly completed car that cant be driven, to the US to another assembly plant to receive an engine - that one makes sense,

but to ship the engine block, heads etc to Australia
bolt it together here, and ship it back...STUPID!

So to ship a motor around the world and get it back in a complete car is smart,but ship some motor parts round the world and get them back as a complete motor is not?

:
I guess with a name like chevypower I should have expected that kind of logic.

X ORSMXR · 13-04-2006, 12:05 AM

Must be all the quick times all us V8 boys have been putting down the track, must have them intrested.

Steffo · 13-04-2006, 12:26 AM

FPV V8 in a Mustang would be very good for FPV. I'd like to see it happen. FPV becoming the Ford Global performance arm?

Maybe that's dreaming a tad much... lol

ltd · 13-04-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

So to ship a motor around the world and get it back in a complete car is smart,but ship some motor parts round the world and get them back as a complete motor is not?

:
I guess with a name like chevypower I should have expected that kind of logic.

Yeah, and lets face it, the monaro has been such a huge success in the USA, what did they sell like 1200 over 4 years? Pity the body panels for it came from Korea

**Polyal** · 13-04-2006, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

FPV V8 in a Mustang would be very good for FPV. I'd like to see it happen. FPV becoming the Ford Global performance arm?

Maybe that's dreaming a tad much... lol

more importantly though, an increase in BOSS numbers should mean a decrease in unit cost, which then could lead to $$ being spent on R&D; or even an alloy block etc etc.

ClevlndStemer · 13-04-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Pity the body panels for it came from Korea

get over it. you realise that a lot of the raw materials ford use on the falcon aren't australian, i.e glass and a lot of the steel for the panels, v8 engine blocks, a lot of the electrics are designed here (by bosch) but are made in other countries, who cares where they get it from, eventually we're all going to be buying cars that are made in china.

4Vman · 13-04-2006, 08:41 AM

I think you're looking at it the wrong way round, maybe due to the much higher consumption of these engines in the states its an opportunity to assemble the BOSS motor in the states and we import finished crate motors at a significantly reduced cost?
It could also mean that Ford US would sink some serious development dollars into this motor that obviously FPV could never afford?
Win/Win?

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Until the AU all tickford I6 engines were apparently shipped to the UK and assembled there!!! UK labour prices are outragous, even Rolls Royce can't afford to assemble engines there.

Australia has low labour costs, and we already have a BOSS production line and development here in Australia. It would be shipping the blocks (not sure where the heads come from, possibly US or mexico) from canada to OZ to have a substancial FPV make over, then ship it back to the US. While there is a cost, it is not much. Bunnyings can move 40kg bags of mulch profitabily for what $5 a bag anywhere in Australia including contents. Companies like Ford get excellent shipping contracts. A lot of the cost is loading and unloading, so unless it can be done in canada it may be favourable to do it here.

It all depends on volume. Personally I think it would be great. Australia has started getting a name for itself in relation to hulkingly powerful machinery (ie top gear, Car and driver reviews etc). The GTO also woke some people up as well. Some yanks know about the Chargers and the clevo's we used to make here. While not as good as made in the USA its as acceptable to them as made in Canada or maybe even more so.

Personally I think they should stick the Falcon I6 turbo motah into a mustang.

**Polyal** · 13-04-2006, 09:12 AM

The I6T surely deserves to be a global engine. Lets not let it steal the 4v's spotlight....again.

FPV8U · 13-04-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think you're looking at it the wrong way round, maybe due to the much higher consumption of these engines in the states its an opportunity to assemble the BOSS motor in the states and we import finished crate motors at a significantly reduced cost?
It could also mean that Ford US would sink some serious development dollars into this motor that obviously FPV could never afford?
Win/Win?

Sounds good to me, taking our Boss Engines to the USA would boost Boss V8 sales by three or four times what they do here easily, but as has been said if it is used it also means more money can be spend on further development.

Win/Win - Hell yes!

4Vman · 13-04-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

Until the AU all tickford I6 engines were apparently shipped to the UK and assembled there!!! UK labour prices are outragous, even Rolls Royce can't afford to assemble engines there.

Australia has low labour costs, and we already have a BOSS production line and development here in Australia. It would be shipping the blocks (not sure where the heads come from, possibly US or mexico) from canada to OZ to have a substancial FPV make over, then ship it back to the US. While there is a cost, it is not much. Bunnyings can move 40kg bags of mulch profitabily for what $5 a bag anywhere in Australia including contents. Companies like Ford get excellent shipping contracts. A lot of the cost is loading and unloading, so unless it can be done in canada it may be favourable to do it here.

It all depends on volume. Personally I think it would be great. Australia has started getting a name for itself in relation to hulkingly powerful machinery (ie top gear, Car and driver reviews etc). The GTO also woke some people up as well. Some yanks know about the Chargers and the clevo's we used to make here. While not as good as made in the USA its as acceptable to them as made in Canada or maybe even more so.

Personally I think they should stick the Falcon I6 turbo motah into a mustang.

Sorry but Australia has some of the highest labour rates anywhere in the world! manufacturing is being shipped off shore at an alarming rate, that combined with the high Aussie dollar is killing local industry.
As an example I got a price list from Hays recruitment and their base rates for a labourer are $29-$35 per hr!
IR reforms will help to some degree to weed out the non performers, but there's no way we could produce the BOSS motor cheaper here than in the states if volume is increased.
The US could easily consume 10-20 times our local rate of BOSS motors.

jspec_sti · 13-04-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think you're looking at it the wrong way round, maybe due to the much higher consumption of these engines in the states its an opportunity to assemble the BOSS motor in the states and we import finished crate motors at a significantly reduced cost?
It could also mean that Ford US would sink some serious development dollars into this motor that obviously FPV could never afford?
Win/Win?

I like your thinking. Alloy version of the BOSS 5.4 with a supercharger anyone? Maybe even the mid corner speed might improve!

quest · 13-04-2006, 09:43 AM

Theres an engine plant in Canada that just stopped production that is already set up for this kind of assembly & casting
I have to agree it doesn't make sense to ship materials half way around the world & back but it doe's speak volumes about development projects in AU

I havn't been around this forum for long but it amazes me that the Persuit Ute was never offered in North America with everyone being so truck crazy

chevypower · 13-04-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

So to ship a motor around the world and get it back in a complete car is smart,but ship some motor parts round the world and get them back as a complete motor is not?

:
I guess with a name like chevypower I should have expected that kind of logic.

Ouch! That hurt man! Dont make me cry....

So what? you expect Holden to push these engineless Monaros off the production line, on to the car transporters by hand then push them on to the ship..... then push them in to the GTO LS1 installation plant (which doesnt exist) It's NOT VIABLE you idiot! They need the cars to be mobile

But to suggest "oh we can make the parts of an engine, but we dont know how to assemble our own engine, so we will ship it to Australia so they can bolt it together...." I can understand them doing that in Mexico or Brazil (less freight and cheaper labor) - the engines which are already assembled in North America for the Lincoln Navigator (DOHC 5.4 close enough to the XR8 spec, i am sure they know how to upgrade the motor) - why on earth would they ship the engines on the opposite side of the world to a production facility that cannot support US volume... try to use your brain a little bit and realize why the Ford Motor Company wont be doing this..

The real issue, is you are just hoping for this to happen... it would be like your favorite footy team winning the grand final, cos if Ford Australia are exporting anything, you will probably get off on that and brag about it to all the Holden fans - you seem to think I am saying this as if i am against Fords.

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Sorry but Australia has some of the highest labour rates anywhere in the world! manufacturing is being shipped off shore at an alarming rate, that combined with the high Aussie dollar is killing local industry.

While Australias labour costs are high from a world wide perspective, they are extremely competitive compared to the US (automotive sector), UK, germany and japan. FPV is already making engines here and most likely always will its just utilising existing capacity.

That labour rate is through a 3rd party labour hire company. Labourers get paid about $20 casual. Not bad, but labouring isn't exactly a easy job. Its the hardest physical work you can do. Thats why good labourers can earn good money with overtime and such. I used to work as a labourer, and I earnt more than I will being a science teacher (what Im currently studying), or when I was a entry level recruitment consultant, when I was a shiftleader for a call centre, or working on contract with ANSTO as a lab tech, or a University lecturer. If I had finished a whole year at normal fulltime work I would have pulled in over $70,000 as a labourer. Sure that was working 6 days a week, often 14 hrs a day. I've heard of Bricky labourers making over $80k a year.

This is all about a limited edition mustang. While the potential for US volume is huge, volume is not what they need. They need profit. Making a exclusive ~500 vechical special may be just that. There is no point in tooling up a US or canadain plant for 500 custom engines. Don't forget that the 5.4 DOHC would be slapped with guzzler tax which instantly kills thousands of buyers so it wouldn't be mainstream anyway.

The 5.4 could fill the gap until the 6.2L arrives. I would also wonder about a limited edition Mustang Turbo. Now the I6 has reasonable emissions it would proberly be US passable. If it could fit, theres another 500 special models right there.

FPV8U · 13-04-2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

I havn't been around this forum for long but it amazes me that the Persuit Ute was never offered in North America with everyone being so truck crazy

I have heard this like 20 times off differn't people from the USA, are you listening FPV...

boy02 · 13-04-2006, 07:53 PM

the 'Boss 290' is from america and has no FPV influence on it. it is just shipped over here and plonked into the FPV's as the LS2 is done in the HSV's. so there not sourcing it from OZ are they theyre just using the same engine as the FPV's thats like saying the Z06 is using the GRM Nation's Cup 427cui Monaro engine when really GRM's was sourced from america in the first place.

CAMS290 · 13-04-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote: