futura to be knocked off production line

niko · 13-04-2006, 09:37 AM

just some insider info.

not the most top secret as you can probably work it out anyway....

they cost as much as an xr, and the only difference between them and an xt (in general) is the different seats, and ofcourse theres a few extra buttons. but ye.

also theres tough demand down at broadmeadows were all the xr's are getting spat out. to many ppl want them!!!

Poetic Justice · 13-04-2006, 09:38 AM

works well as far as I can see

More XR, less base models. Woot woot!

**Polyal** · 13-04-2006, 09:42 AM

yeah ive heard the same thing..makes sense really.

I think the fairmont is on borrowed time aswell.

All you need is a base model, sports, luxury; let people option what they want and charge them a shedload for it

jmc-007 · 13-04-2006, 10:06 AM

Here we go again.

1992 Ford Falcon S then in turn. deleted
1993 Ford Falcon Futura for the non sport buyer then the
1993 Ford Falcon XR6 for the sport buyer.

and thats how its been.

How about they delete the XT and make the futura the base model.

Poetic Justice · 13-04-2006, 10:08 AM

I would say that deleting XT and having Futura as the base model would seem the appropriate thing, as the Futura has been around for a while.

I really hope they don't delete the Fairmont. I think that would be a very silly thing to do.

Paxton · 13-04-2006, 10:14 AM

The only problem with the number of XR's being churned out, is the fact that it cheapens the 'model'. The Futura was the 'Safety' Pack, over the GLi, which gave it ABS (now Standard on the XT), Dual Airbags (Now Standard), Front Fast Glass (Now Standard). What is the point of the Futura.

The Fairmont is what the Ghia used to be. It has Wood, Leather (in Places), but offers nothing really different in Driving ability. Ford needs to do with it what Holden did with the Calais/Berlina - Make the Fairmont the Luxury Model, and make the Ghia the Sports/Luxury model (Turbo motor anyone?)

AnthonyQLD · 13-04-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

and make the Ghia the Sports/Luxury model (Turbo motor anyone?)

Yes please

Deadman · 13-04-2006, 10:39 AM

I saw a BA Futura yesterday with front (fairmont like) fog/driving lights (whichever one they are), and a body kit (you know, the factory optioned one).

I looked at it a few times and just couldn't work out why the hell they just didn't buy an XR6. Would have been the same money :/

Anyway, I can see where they're coming from if they delete it...

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 10:47 AM

XT - This should be the entry level car. You have to go above XR or to Fairmont to get something that is meaningfully better.

Futura - XT with size airbags and 16" alloys. It does cost as much as a XR6 NA to make. Yet a whole lots less sexy and profitable. Either buy a optioned XT with a safety pack or grab a XR.

Fairmont - It can be a inbetweeny model. But really 16" alloys? The avalibility of factory leather would really lift the appeal of the car..

Ghia - Spec it properly, wheres the LSD, wheres the turbo, where the 18"s, wheres the dam exhaust? I can't see it because its XT spec. Power both seats thanks. Now that the LWB are going to be killed off it can get LTD spec stuff like auto dimming mirrors, 10 way seats. Xenons will do nicely on BF II as would some sexy LED brake lights. Heated seats and some sort of airbags for the rear passengers. It should be a flat out euro fighter because thats what it has to do if it wants more than fleet sales.

XplosiveR6 · 13-04-2006, 11:00 AM

the way i have always thaught the models when as follows...
GLi - Taxi pack/Fleets
Futura - Personal buyers
Fairmont - mananger fleets/grandpas
Fairmont ghias - Personal buyer with a bit of money/ high level manangers
XR - mid life crisis

but these days things have changed heaps, now that more people want sporty looking cars and the fact the XT base model is no longer just a taxt pack, it has the same extras, if not more then the futera had in models before the BA, so really there is no use for the futura anymore

MoreHPformyXR6 · 13-04-2006, 11:07 AM

What do u get with the Futura over XT is it abs & 16 inch alloys & different trim in seats? Doesnt represent value to me.

EFFalcon · 13-04-2006, 11:11 AM

plenty of people buy GLi/XT's for personal use
like myself :P

i'm not as special as u Ghia owners ;)

can't see much point in the futura though.
deleting the XT would mean they would have to offer the small things (alloys etc) on the base model.
how ever it would give the base model a better image as the futura was always a little above base spec.

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 11:28 AM

Fairmonts and Fairmont Ghias are well entrenched into company fleet policies. Regional managers for example might get a fairmont, but the state or national manager would get a Ghia.

Futura was never in the same way. Xt's are still the base company car but the Futura was pitched to fill inbetween XT and Fairmont.

There was a time you could tell exactly what position some one had in a company by the car he drove. People changed jobs over it, packages were fought over it.

XR is the wild card. Usually bought on leases, as leases have become more popular, so have the XR. XR spans the XT-Ghia level. Leases have also ment less interest in the Fairmont/Ghia.

Some people however won't buy a XR. They are extrovert, and can have negitive images in some circle (mid life crisis, boy racer, cowboy, tool, ******** etc).

XT = Entry
Fairmont = Luxury
XR = Sport
Ghia = Sport luxury
LTD SWB = Mega luxury. Unique kit. Advanced technology flagship. Real wood. Super opulant leather. Reclining rear seats. The sort of car you would hope you would get for $75,000.

Paxton · 13-04-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

XR - mid life crisis

Excuse me! I bought my EF XR6 at 21. Are you saying that I was having a mid life crisis then, or should have I bought a Fairmont or Ghia?

Ford's problem was the AU. If it wasn't for Ford upspeccing the Forte (power windows, Cruise Etc) then we wouldn't have the problem they have today.

**Polyal** · 13-04-2006, 12:10 PM

Iphido - I agree with the LTD, pi$s off the LWB cars all togther! And make some 300C crusher!

niko · 13-04-2006, 12:13 PM

the killa with the xr is all the momo ИИИИ, different trims and body kit, the headlights all come as factory xt and they just get sent back to hella and directly swapped. so there getting headlights same price as wat they pay for the standard ones.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-04-2006, 12:16 PM

No more Futura?

Ill believe it when i see it, Orix Fleet and Fleet Plan buy 1000's of Futura's for the Government, Hire Companys and as their own lease cars, can't see Ford Dropping the Futura till atleast the next model, they are still selling plenty... Even the tax office has a complete FUTURA fleet!

I agree with what otheres have said, drop the XT and make the Futura standard, that would blow the VE out of the water as I doubt it would come with all the same features standard.

Btw the Futura gets

16 inch alloys,
4 power windows
Reverse sensors
Side airbags
colour coding
chrome bits
better interior trim

once you add it all up ontop of the price of an XT its not far off neways!

MoreHPformyXR6 · 13-04-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

No more Futura?

Ill believe it when i see it, Orix Fleet and Fleet Plan buy 1000's of Futura's for the Government, Hire Companys and as their own lease cars, can't see Ford Dropping the Futura till atleast the next model, they are still selling plenty... Even the tax office has a complete FUTURA fleet!

I agree with what otheres have said, drop the XT and make the Futura standard, that would blow the VE out of the water as I doubt it would come with all the same features standard.

Does that mean that base line falcon would be almost 40k plus ORC instead of about $35 plus ORC
or are u saying drop the XT & drop the Futura price?

Smoke Pursuit · 13-04-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

Does that mean that base line falcon would be almost 40k plus ORC instead of about $35 plus ORC
or are u saying drop the XT & drop the Futura price?

Thats exactly what im saying, or in the case of combining the Two give the XT full power windows and alloys standard to cut back the price a little, then drop the Futura, making the Fairmont a more viable purchase at the same price as an XR6..

Ford wont drop the futura till holden drop the acclaim, it would be absolutely crazy for them to do so as there would be no competition for the Acclaim. Maybe this means Holden wont have an Acclaim in the VE?? who knows, we all know that information is available between both manufacturers so time will tell.

All i can say to those who think the Futura doesnt sell, go to any government based organisation and they will have more Futuras / Acclaims then anything else, same goes for the XLS utes, they arent much cheaper then the XR6 but thats all the councils / RTA use, they dont bother buying XRs.

AWD Chaser · 13-04-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

I looked at it a few times and just couldn't work out why the hell they just didn't buy an XR6. Would have been the same money

Because the XR6 is a "sports car" under any insurance policy.

I do agree with the idea of droping one of the base models, but i reckon it should be the XT. Have the futura the base model for the price of an XT.

See how that compares to the Commodore executive with no Aircon or Power Windows!!!!

I think either proprly spec the LTD or do away with it and put the LWB chassis on all the falcon range.

OzJavelin · 13-04-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Because the XR6 is a "sports car" under any insurance policy.

Non turbo XR6 a "sports car"!!??

A comfortable tourer yes ..

**Falcon Coupe** · 13-04-2006, 12:56 PM

An XR6 wagon to replace futura would sell well IMO.

Lukeyson · 13-04-2006, 01:06 PM

yeah XR is hardly mid life, got 2 XR8s very early twenties!!
Hope that dont mean i will only live to mid 40's :(

MoreHPformyXR6 · 13-04-2006, 01:09 PM

BMW Z3 that's mid-life

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 01:22 PM

I actually think with Orion the LWB will die. No one can make unique shape cars with volume in the 300 a year range. Not even die hard japanese brands can overlook the lack of profitability in that. Wagons are dying so it would most likely need unique doors as well pushing development costs through the roof.

Im pretty sure the LWB will die, but there will be a SWB LTD at a simular price of the current on ~$75,000. Its competition will be things like the new Honda ledgend, the 300c, the Caprice, etc. It could be differenciated with unique bumpers, colours, wheels etc. Ford can do that, just look and see how diffrent a XR8 and Futura are.

Ringo · 13-04-2006, 01:38 PM

Howdy from the land of Fleet Management.

Ford dropping the XT and then not replacing it with some other 'base model' would send a ripple through the industry.

Perhaps the popular SR will take the place of Futura and Futura becomes the base model....they would make a little more sense as it is visually different as well as some different touchy feely stuff on the inside to seperate it from XT. They wouldn't do it mid model cycle though - it would lower the resale of Futura and XT.

With VE, Aurion and the new Carmy (yes I kow they are 4 pot only but have you seen fuel prices lately??) on the horizon Ford need to keep evolving or else they will be left for dead.

Company Fleet policies are very much set around the different vehicle spec levels - XT or Exec, Futura or Acclaim, Fairmont or Belrina etc. ATO, Govt and most major companies have minimum safety specs that vehicle must have under OH+S laws - the company car is an extention of the office. Futura used to have duel bags, abs, cuise etc as standard where as XT is was an option hence the policy. Prices get very similar b/w XT and Futura when you through in bulk buy power.

I can't tell you the number of companies looking at cars OTHER than typical fleet cars because of rising costs. Fords ace in the sleeve are their LPG models but the saving for those is currently running at about $100 per month if your doing 25,000 klms a year. I also wonder what would happen if Ford made their 4.0 litre engine 3.5 litres to save on some fuel...Minor change to engine stroke = drop a bit of power & torque but gain a whole lot of economy.

Scary fact - Currently a company can lease a Subaru Forester XS (that is the mid range Forrester) with 5 star safety rating, side airbags, sun roof, wagon, 4wd, alloy wheels, nice to drive etc etc for LESS than a Falcon XT.....about $100 per month less.....Oh oh Fo Mo Co

Why?

2 reasons - Fuel costs have gone up 20% over the last 18 months. Resale values on 6 Cyl have dropped about 18% while 4 cyl & LPG resale values have gone up.

The cost of leasing 6 cyl cars has risen by about 15% overall and well equipped 4 cyl cars are being looked at as substutitues very very seriously...the fleet cost savings are huge.

PS You can lease a Futura or XR6 (non turbo) for about the same money at present....no wonder there is so many XR6 non turbo's around.

PS - Most fleet companies WILL NOT buy a Commodore without A/C even if a customer wanted it.....try selling one at end of lease....no one will buy it

Steve D · 13-04-2006, 01:41 PM

One of the factors for the XR6's popularity has been that it is an attractive lease option, due to better resale values than the XT and/or Futura. I've heard from a friend, though, that he may not get another XR6 next time as the lease deal is not a good as it was last time around. Must be all those XR6s that are now coming out of their old leases... Certainly some I know went for the XR6 since the lease deal looked better than other Falcons.

So the model balance may be changed again...

ltd · 13-04-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

LTD SWB = Mega luxury. Unique kit. Advanced technology flagship. Real wood. Super opulant leather. Reclining rear seats. The sort of car you would hope you would get for $75,000.

Yeah Baby.

Iphido · 13-04-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

Perhaps the popular SR will take the place of Futura and Futura becomes the base model....they would make a little more sense as it is visually different as well as some different touchy feely stuff on the inside to seperate it from XT. They wouldn't do it mid model cycle though - it would lower the resale of Futura and XT.

The S and the SR have been ways to get private buyers into Xt's mid cycle. They disapear at the start of a new model and then kick in. I guess they do this instead of discounting or up specing XT's which would hurt resale (below 40%? is that possible?).

Quote:

Company Fleet policies are very much set around the different vehicle spec levels - XT or Exec, Futura or Acclaim, Fairmont or Belrina etc. ATO, Govt and most major companies have minimum safety specs that vehicle must have under OH+S laws - the company car is an extention of the office. Futura used to have duel bags, abs, cuise etc as standard where as XT is was an option hence the policy. Prices get very similar b/w XT and Futura when you through in bulk buy power.

With BF II I think we will see side airbags standard (to combat standard curtain bags on VE). Hence Futura is obsolete, appart from 16" wheels and minor trim.

Quote:

I also wonder what would happen if Ford made their 4.0 litre engine 3.5 litres to save on some fuel...Minor change to engine stroke = drop a bit of power & torque but gain a whole lot of economy.

I've suggested this before, but the whole EA 3.2 thing comes up again. People claim that the market can't support two engine capacities in this country and that people would always get the 4.0.

Resale is killing ford. Too many models at 40%! Ford should find out why buyers aren't interested and prices are so very low. Territory and XR are fantastic with solid 60+% resale.

You have to be happy with the BF 6 sss economy. 10.2L per 100. Thats very close to a 3.0L BMW 3'er or 5'er. 7.6L on the free way and 14.8 in the city.

Fords got more money for another comprehensive I6 update. I would imagine new materials (magnesium?) and new technolgies (direct injection) are on the board. Hopefully bigger fuel tanks. Would like to see over 1000km from a highway driven falcon. A 76L fuel tank would just about do it too.

GreenMachine · 13-04-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

PS - Most fleet companies WILL NOT buy a Commodore without A/C even if a customer wanted it.....try selling one at end of lease....no one will buy it

Do they STILL offer a non-A/C Commodore? I remember being amazed years back when a mate bought a few year old VT without air... I believe it was standard in Falcon from EL?