Is the ford I6 the next best thing to a V8?

[RAPID_BA]

We all love V8s but for a long time now the ford i6 has presented as a credible alternative to a V8

From EB2 and the 4.0 i6 we have enjoyed power and torque outputs very close the base V8 offering from holden and ford from the same vintage.

EB i6 was 148kw/348nm against V8s from ford and holden of 165kw/385-388nm

Ef/el had 157kw/357nm against the same V8s above

Au has 157kw/357nm against 175kw/400nm

In BA we get 182kw/380nm against 220kw/470nm 3v 5.4 but real driving showed not much of a difference

Yes the V8 has the sound which cannot be replicated but the i6 should be credited with offering V8 like performance for many years now.

We have to consider the i6 as the next best thing to a v8 and a credible alternative in any event.

[Paxton]

Let's put it this way - between 1984 and 1991, Ford didn't have a V8 Falcon. The bean counters at Ford certainly thought the I6 was better than the V8.

With the Turbo in the BA, a whole new ball game was started, but before that, Ford seemed happy pitting a faster XR6 (in the EF, anyway) up against the XR8.

[Dave R]

These days the gap has gotten alot bigger between N/A I6 and the V8s. But I guess you could call it the next best thing, not sure about a credible alternative though - if you want a V8, you want a V8. The I6T is a different story.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

We all love V8s but for a long time now the ford i6 has presented as a credible alternative to a V8

From EB2 and the 4.0 i6 we have enjoyed power and torque outputs very close the base V8 offering from holden and ford from the same vintage.

EB i6 was 148kw/348nm against V8s from ford and holden of 165kw/385-388nm

Ef/el had 157kw/357nm against the same V8s above

Au has 157kw/357nm against 175kw/400nm

In BA we get 182kw/380nm against 220kw/470nm 3v 5.4 but real driving showed not much of a difference

Yes the V8 has the sound which cannot be replicated but the i6 should be credited with offering V8 like performance for many years now.

We have to consider the i6 as the next best thing to a v8 and a credible alternative in any event.

Sure the I6 has improved from 148 to 193 in 20 years - a 30% increase but the V8 has improved by nearly twice it's original output in the years between 1991 and 2008 from 165 to 315kw (when comparing the top V8 offerings and ignoring the 335 SC engines for now and looking at N/A only)

So while power output in the 6's have improved the V8's have improved at nearly three times their rate

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure the I6 has improved from 148 to 193 in 20 years - a 30% increase but the V8 has improved by nearly twice it's original output in the years between 1991 and 2008 from 165 to 315kw (when comparing the top V8 offerings and ignoring the 335 SC engines for now and looking at N/A only)

So while power output in the 6's have improved the V8's have improved at nearly three times their rate

Ignore.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure the I6 has improved from 148 to 193 in 20 years - a 30% increase but the V8 has improved by nearly twice it's original output in the years between 1991 and 2008 from 165 to 315kw (when comparing the top V8 offerings and ignoring the 335 SC engines for now and looking at N/A only)

So while power output in the 6's have improved the V8's have improved at nearly three times their rate

Im comparing entry level i6 to entry level v8 not base i6 against top of the mark v8? Otherwise we also include up spec 6s (f6)

Really ford dont have a entry level v8 to compare since the 3v 5.4 so the comparo stops at bf 3v 5.4

But the ford i6 wouldnt be embarrassed against holdens entry level afm 6.0 litre.

I think to consider the i6 against the v8 it must be fitted to a list of model variants as the i6 is fitted from base model to luxury and sport models and the v8 its compared against should be considered the same.

[prasac]

we just talking Ford motors or all makers? Hyundai has been impressive of late with a 230kw 3.8L V6 with 380NM of torque. and the Mustang V6 produces about the same.

[oddnutz]

EB i6 was 148kw

not if you owned a EB SXR6

[DJM83]

Nope....

[Sep 97 EL XR8]

Unfortunately, you have to look at all the trends, and the V8 is becoming rarer and rarer, as all manufacurers are downsizing because of petrol consumption, and the more research being done on the I4, I6 and v6. If you look at all the typical manufactures selling v8's (GM, Ford, VW group, BMW, Mercedes), you will notice the V8's sales is insignificant. So it will come a time when the V8's are not viable from a sales point of view (i can't believe i said that - i have 2 V8's and love them). I believe BMW has the best I6 six out there, the ford I6 is good, but I don't know how much longer ford will continue to make the I6 as i'm sure they will use a off the shelf I4T or V6 from US.

I think the next best thing to a V8 is a V6, you can get a similar note (although not the same), you can get better torque from V6 than I6, if you compare the same capacity.

It will be a strange to have a falcon with either a I4T or V6, no I6.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Im comparing entry level i6 to entry level v8 not base i6 against top of the mark v8? Otherwise we also include up spec 6s (f6)

Really ford dont have a entry level v8 to compare since the 3v 5.4 so the comparo stops at bf 3v 5.4

But the ford i6 wouldnt be embarrassed against holdens entry level afm 6.0 litre.

I think to consider the i6 against the v8 it must be fitted to a list of model variants as the i6 is fitted from base model to luxury and sport models and the v8 its compared against should be considered the same.

Well the entry level V8 is now 315 kw...

The I6 Turbo is where the hero lies!!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Well the entry level V8 is now 315 kw...

The I6 Turbo is where the hero lies!!

This^^^^

[ebxr8240]

Yep but again the 5.0 V8 is NOT that big and can be very efficient and frugal fuel wise..
It's the perception .. Ford need much better advertising program to show how fuel efficient some models are..
My worry due to V8 / turbo rules for P plate rs .. They won't follow on with these vehicles???
Plus the conception could be out there that the Ford 6 cyl is not a revy engine..
Where they are used to 4's and V6's that rev...
NOT that I agree as the smooth torque sure makes up for it ..

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Sep 97 EL XR8

I think the next best thing to a V8 is a V6, you can get a similar note (although not the same), you can get better torque from V6 than I6, if you compare the same capacity.

Can you explain this one? First time I've heard that a V6 of the same spec will produce more torque than an I6.
The V6 is a product of the bean counter and nothing more. Only around for transverse applications and/or component sharing with V8s.

[JC]

Plenty of 6's on the market better than the Ford I6. BMW, merc, Nissan all make great 6's. But if you want to throw in ease of maintenace, low cost of replacements parts, than the good old Ford I6 is hard to beat, espeically with a snail bolted to it.

Is it better than a V8, depends on how you want to measure it? In terms of power, torque etc, the 6T is a pretty good piece of kit, but it does not have the same aural assault as even the old wheezer V8. So for me, no, a 6, any 6 will never sound as good as a V8, but will it get me to the detaination at legal speeds the same as a V8 - of course.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by smoo

Can you explain this one? First time I've heard that a V6 of the same spec will produce more torque than an I6.
The V6 is a product of the bean counter and nothing more. Only around for transverse applications and/or component sharing with V8s.

The V6 is for practicality purposes only. The block is shorter, so you can have a smaller engine bay & fitting the accessories (air con, power steering etc.) becomes easier, I also read somewhere that vehicles fitted with a V6 cause less damage when hitting a pedestrian, so you get a better safety rating (which shows how impressive Ford are with their engineering, becoming Australias first 5 star ancap rating car and with a inline 6 engine!) Also the V6 will rev up quicker because of the smaller crank. I haven't ever heard of a V6 producing more torque than an inline 6? Especially the Australian Ford inline 6, which has such a long stroke making heaps of torque. Also I believe the V6 is mean't to be more smoother than an inline 6, but in Holdens case this is not true as every Falcon & Commodore that I have ever been in, the Falcon idles and accelerates so much more smoothly, especially the VN's & VP's I remember my friends one when he planted it you could actually hear the engine rattling.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by JC

Plenty of 6's on the market better than the Ford I6. BMW, merc, Nissan all make great 6's. But if you want to throw in ease of maintenace, low cost of replacements parts, than the good old Ford I6 is hard to beat, espeically with a snail bolted to it.

Can you explain why they are better?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Can you explain why they are better?

smoother, more efficient

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

The V6 is for practicality purposes only. The block is shorter, so you can have a smaller engine bay & fitting the accessories (air con, power steering etc.) becomes easier, I also read somewhere that vehicles fitted with a V6 cause less damage when hitting a pedestrian, so you get a better safety rating (which shows how impressive Ford are with their engineering, becoming Australias first 5 star ancap rating car and with a inline 6 engine!) Also the V6 will rev up quicker because of the smaller crank. I haven't ever heard of a V6 producing more torque than an inline 6? Especially the Australian Ford inline 6, which has such a long stroke making heaps of torque. Also I believe the V6 is mean't to be more smoother than an inline 6, but in Holdens case this is not true as every Falcon & Commodore that I have ever been in, the Falcon idles and accelerates so much more smoothly, especially the VN's & VP's I remember my friends one when he planted it you could actually hear the engine rattling.

Yea and part of the practality purposes is the reduced cost via component sharing. There are no V6s I can think of solely designed for a rwd car, even Mercedes V6s in their cars and heavy diesel trucks are a spin off of the 90 degree V8s.
V6s may have a shorter crank (giving the illusion they rev harder?) but what about the added valve train, longer timing chains etc to off set less main bearings, I'd say the differences would be minimal.
And I think you got the smoothness around the wrong way, in that the I6 is naturally more balanced than the V6 due to the crank design of throw placement between the two layouts and firing order, I think

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Can you explain why they are better?

Unfortunately if you really have to ask the question then you will probably not understand the answer.

Look up the specs of a VQ35HR or VQ37VHR, S54, GT3RS etc...........

[flappist]

Originally Posted by smoo

Yea and part of the practality purposes is the reduced cost via component sharing. There are no V6s I can think of solely designed for a rwd car, even Mercedes V6s in their cars and heavy diesel trucks are a spin off of the 90 degree V8s.
V6s may have a shorter crank (giving the illusion they rev harder?) but what about the added valve train, longer timing chains etc to off set less main bearings, I'd say the differences would be minimal.
And I think you got the smoothness around the wrong way, in that the I6 is naturally more balanced than the V6 due to the crank design of throw placement between the two layouts and firing order, I think

Nissan VQ37VHR..... and all its predecessors.

[mik]

kw`s are over rated imo, lots of engines have a high kws, some even have a decent torque figure .....................at 5000/6000 rpm , from memory my lowly 10 year old xr6 makes 372 nm at 3200 ? (ah good ole wiki....172 kW (231 hp), 374 N·m (276 lb·ft), VCT), anyway its pretty close to the v8 of its time(which is 1 litre bigger)and still better torque than the new holden v6 iirc, i think they could extract more power out of the NA inline 6 if they wanted too, imagine the i6 with direct injection ! but why, they have their hero v8`s and turbo 6.
i miss the burble of my v8 and wish i had one at times, but the henry 6 is so dam good, i could drive for 10 years with the i6 and easily keep up with most traffic without ever going over 2200 rpm, and also and tow well and do pretty much what you can do with a v8, so my answer would be ...... yes!

[Aulpgute]

An inline 6 has a firing interval of 120 degrees as opposed to a V6 of 180 degrees similar to a V8, hence the inherent smoothness and superior torque. In the mid 90's when Mercedes changed over from the 3.2l inline six to the V6 in the E class it was down on performance until it's first update. Back in the good old days a straight 8 always had the edge on the V8's.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by flappist

Unfortunately if you really have to ask the question then you will probably not understand the answer.

Look up the specs of a VQ35HR or VQ37VHR, S54, GT3RS etc...........

Hence why I asked the question. I will check out the specs.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by smoo

Yea and part of the practality purposes is the reduced cost via component sharing. There are no V6s I can think of solely designed for a rwd car, even Mercedes V6s in their cars and heavy diesel trucks are a spin off of the 90 degree V8s.
V6s may have a shorter crank (giving the illusion they rev harder?) but what about the added valve train, longer timing chains etc to off set less main bearings, I'd say the differences would be minimal.
And I think you got the smoothness around the wrong way, in that the I6 is naturally more balanced than the V6 due to the crank design of throw placement between the two layouts and firing order, I think

The shorter crank statement I said was just my perception, not a fact, I should have stated this, the V6 does use a shorter crank and weighs a lot less than the inline 6 crank, I remember holding a V6 crank and it was lighter than my 250 crank, I didn't say it would rev harder, but rev up quicker/free rev, because it is lighter. I was told the V6 is meant to be smoother because of the opposing cylinder banks but that is an unsubstantiated claim as I was told this by someone who claims they are in the know, and it was a while ago I was told so I may have it mixed up.

[ford man xf]

Found this quote while looking at the engines flappist provided:

Compactness is the primary reason. An inline six is longer than a V-6,

An aluminum block’s cylinder liners take up space; with liners it would not have been possible to achieve the engine’s 3.2-liter displacement without lengthening the block. The second reason is strength. Given that this engine develops a fully 333 hp from 3.2 liters – significantly over 100 hp per liter – its internal stresses are immense.

So the inline 6 is smoother than a V6. As Aulpgute stated above, is firing interval the only reason the inline 6 is smoother?

[Raptor]

Ah the old smoothness argument

Lot's of misinformation being sprouted here already.
Try reading Engine Smoothness if you really want to understand the subject.

As to the OPs opening question - what makes you think any V8 is superior to the I6 anyway

As far as I'm concerned it not the "next best thing" it's better

[JC]

Originally Posted by flappist

Unfortunately if you really have to ask the question then you will probably not understand the answer.

Look up the specs of a VQ35HR or VQ37VHR, S54, GT3RS etc...........

LOL, thanks flappist - some people are blinded by what they drive and can't see outside the box.

Just to clarify, when I say better, I mean more power per cubic inch, better fuel efficiency, wider ranging use (everything from family hack sedans to full on sports cars - Nissan maxima, Nissan 350Z would be 2 examples that share the same basic engine). And if anyone calls the XR6T a sports car, you deserve a week's holiday from this forum IMO.

[JC]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Found this quote while looking at the engines flappist provided:



So the inline 6 is smoother than a V6. As Aulpgute stated above, is firing interval the only reason the inline 6 is smoother?

How did you turn a question of an I6 being the next best thing to a V8, into smoothness of an I6 compared to a V8? The mind boggles!

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Ah the old smoothness argument

Lot's of misinformation being sprouted here already.
Try reading Engine Smoothness if you really want to understand the subject.

As to the OPs opening question - what makes you think any V8 is superior to the I6 anyway

As far as I'm concerned it not the "next best thing" it's better

Thanks for link.

Originally Posted by JC

LOL, thanks flappist - some people are blinded by what they drive and can't see outside the box.

Just to clarify, when I say better, I mean more power per cubic inch, better fuel efficiency, wider ranging use (everything from family hack sedans to full on sports cars - Nissan maxima, Nissan 350Z would be 2 examples that share the same basic engine). And if anyone calls the XR6T a sports car, you deserve a week's holiday from this forum IMO.

No, not really, as you have stated, "better" can mean a number of things, but thanks for clearing that up. Affordabilty and build production are a major factor, we are very blessed to have such a great engine that only makes an appearance in 2 vehicles worldwide in such a low volume. And exactly for the reasons you mentioned is what makes it a great engine.

Originally Posted by JC

How did you turn a question of an I6 being the next best thing to a V8, into smoothness of an I6 compared to a V8? The mind boggles!

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but this statement was made by Sep 97 EL XR8 "I think the next best thing to a V8 is a V6, you can get a similar note (although not the same), you can get better torque from V6 than I6, if you compare the same capacity." smoo quoted it in his post.