AFL hands out record suspension to Steven Baker

[RedHotGT]

From:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/af...-1225885409278

What is everyone's opinion on this issue?

Here's my piece - for what it's worth.

The AFL needs to have a long hard look at the umpires and the match review panel, and how they are to work hand-in-hand together. At the moment, clearly the system does not work.

The record 12-week suspension a result of carryover points and loading due to Baker's poor tribunal record in the past. Fair enough... But when was the last time that a player was charged with 4 seperate infringements?

If the umpires had have done their job correctly and paid free kick(s) when incidents occured, then it would have been clear that Baker had done something wrong and that the punishment for his actions could be handled immediately. Instead, the umpires chose to pay nothing in the way of free kicks and 50m penalties, and in some of the footage you can see the umpire is actually standing RIGHT IN FRONT of the players as they wrestled.

Baker niggled Steven Johnson throughout the game and with no free kicks coming from his actions, he has kept the same tactics and strategy throughout the game - only to find out that he has 4 seperate charges to face after the game!!!

I don't think that what Baker was doing to Johnson was in the spirit of the game (punching his injured hand) but on the other hand - Johnson should have removed himself from the ground if he was infact injured.

But what Baker did to Johnson was no different to what J.Riewoldt did to T.Pears the other week - and this was not sighted by the Match Review Panel.

Johnson's flying elbow that split Baker's eye open was obviously in retaliation, and yes he should be suspended for that action - but how was it different to Chris Judd's elbow that split M.Pavlich's eye the other week also??

I think that the footage of Baker and Johnson after the game should also be taken in to account. Baker went to shake Johnson's hand after the game, and they both acknowledged each other and even smiled at each other - showing that even though their clash on the field was aggressive, they both felt that it was 'all part of the game'.

Baker is known for his tagging skills, and his ability to isolate and infuriate his opponent. He will be a huge loss for the Saints for the period of suspension.

For the record - I am a Hawthorn supporter and have no bias towards these 2 players or the teams for that matter.

I'm interested in everyone's opinion of this matter, and what suggestions are to make sure that something like this does not happen again. Any player receiving 4 seperate charges (and potentially wiping out 1/2 a season) is a bit ridiculous...

Look forward to the responses.

Loftie

[BENT_8]

This is a joke.

SB gets 12 weeks for a few jabs.

Barry Hall nearly killed Brett Staker and all he got was 6 weeks.

Both share similar tribunal history.

[RG]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This is a joke.

SB gets 12 weeks for a few jabs.

Barry Hall nearly killed Brett Staker and all he got was 6 weeks.

Both share similar tribunal history.

Difference is that was one charge for one action whereas Baker is facing multiple for multiple actions.

It is a joke though and proves that the current tribunal system is fatally flawed based on the continuous string of inconsistent decisions.

If only the umpires had been doing something resembling a half way decent job on the night none of this would have happened.

Directly targeting SJ's hand was a dog act though and will tarnish Bakers name and career just as it did to that other dog Kretiuk who did the same to Matthew Lloyd. Do what you want but never, ever specifically target an injury.

[SB076]

I agree with what you have written. Had the umpires paid a few free kicks to Johnson Baker would have had to try something else - or get dragged.

I dont like what Baker did (I dont think its in the spirit of the game personally - I have had a knee reco and if someone decided to test it - I wouldnt be happy about it) But I think 12 weeks is harsh (you could line someone up and king hit them and get less than that) As you stated the umpires should have controlled the game, than neither Baker or Johnsone would be in this situation.

I dont support either the Cats or Saints (after last weeks performance I dont think I will publically acknowledge who I support....)

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by RG

Difference is that was one charge for one action whereas Baker is facing multiple for multiple actions.

Agreed, but the total impact to SJ combining all those incidents could never be compared to the sheer brutality of the Staker hit.

The footage of Stakers eyes rolling in his head before he hit the deck is sickening.

Didnt Nick Riewolt suffer a similar situation when an injury was targetted during a game? all the commentators at the time said it was fair game if he played with the injury.
It was 05 v's BL, Mal michael was cleared of anywrong doing as Reiwoldt agreed to play injured.
He broke the collar bone again later in the season after heavy physical attention from his opposition.

[RG]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, but the total impact to SJ combining all those incidents could never be compared to the sheer brutality of the Staker hit.

The footage of Stakers eyes rolling in his head before he hit the deck is sickening.

Didnt Nick Riewolt suffer a similar situation when an injury was targetted during a game? all the commentators at the time said it was fair game if he played with the injury.

That was against Brisbane and a few bumped him as he was going off, commentators said on the night it was fair game and then after a sit and a think said they were wrong and it was BS.

One thing I have to say is this though, niggling taggers (Staker/Baker etc) bring the actions upon themselves. There is no need for the constant crap that they do, the pinching, holding, grabbing, slapping etc and it needs to be stopped. All it proves is that they are a far inferior player to their opponent and need to resort to this crap in order to try and outplay them. Baker deserved SJ's elbow to the head and probably more. SJ really should be a bit peeved with his teammates too for not stepping in and making an issue out of it.

[BENT_8]

Players are tagged in every level of the game, has been happening for years and wont stop anytime soon.
Its about psychology, nothing to do with who's a better player.
If a player allows constant nagging to upset him then he is mentally weak, his attention should be focused squarely on the task at hand, everything else is irrelevant.
Good players get tagged every week, how often do they react and get suspended.

All this is on the back of Barry Halls recent run in when he was pushed over doing up his laces.
Barry shouldn't be used as an example to set precedence as he is a known hot head who will swing at anything.
Any other player wouldnt have tried to squeeze the life from the offender.

Taggers know how to push buttons, if your mentally weak you will react, lose concentration and the job is done.

[RG]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Players are tagged in every level of the game, has been happening for years and wont stop anytime soon.
Its about psychology, nothing to do with who's a better player.
If a player allows constant nagging to upset him then he is mentally weak, his attention should be focused squarely on the task at hand, everything else is irrelevant.
Good players get tagged every week, how often do they react and get suspended.

All this is on the back of Barry Halls recent run in when he was pushed over doing up his laces.
Barry shouldn't be used as an example to set precedence as he is a known hot head who will swing at anything.
Any other player wouldnt have tried to squeeze the life from the offender.

Taggers know how to push buttons, if your mentally weak you will react, lose concentration and the job is done.

Just because it happens does not make it right.

I suppose they could take a leaf out of Lloyd's book, remember the tagger and next time to two of you are going at the ball run over them like a bloody train.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This is a joke.

SB gets 12 weeks for a few jabs.

Barry Hall nearly killed Brett Staker and all he got was 6 weeks.

Both share similar tribunal history.

Hall committed 1 offense.. Baker was outed for 4 separate offenses....

[rodderz]

Probably a bit harsh, even considering his 4 offenses. He deserved a suspension, and a whack for his persistent little efforts, but cmon this is footy not netball. I know the afl needs to set an example to young kids, but it's also a physical and tough game. You don't want players shying away from other players just because they're worried they'll get rubbed out for any potential incident. Bring back the biff....bring back the excitement

[jaysway]

absolute joke.
they should have just had a bit of biff to get it over with and they probably would have copped less weeks on the sideline.
i cant stand the jabs in the back and constant blindside ****. just play the game, with some biff if needed, then get on with it.

[RG]

The biff won't come back as long as Demetriou is in charge unfortunately. He bows down to the wowsers and non-fans who say the game needs to be sanitized and clean so children aren't killed and kittens aren't injured.

Demetriou isn't a good thing for the game IMO.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hall committed 1 offense.. Baker was outed for 4 separate offenses....

A little trigger happy Norm, read the whole thread, i have already agreed the Hall incident was for one offence.

Tell me, what would you prefer, a king hit from barry or 3 jabs from Stevie baker...
Compare the combined footage of the SB v's SJ incidents and then look at brett Stakers eyes...

SJ was never in a life threatening situation and continued the game.

[RG]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

A little trigger happy Norm, read the whole thread, i have already agreed the Hall incident was for one offence.

Tell me, what would you prefer, a king hit from barry or 3 jabs from Stevie baker...
Compare the combined footage of the SB v's SJ incidents and then look at brett Stakers eyes...

SJ was never in a life threatening situation and continued the game.

Hang on a second, I think you need to review the Hall v Staker incident.

Barry Hall did a quick turn around and smacked staker in the head with his LEFT hand. Barry Hall is right handed.

SJ did the same to Baker but used an elbow instead of a fist.

No difference to me, both caused the same injury yet no one is saying SJ needs to be banned from the game.

Hall cops a pretty unfair wrap.

[pauljh74]

While Hall got done the other week as he should have he was also the victim of cheap shots - he got kneed while tying his laces among other things. The person provoked should continue to be penalised when they lash out, but the person provoking should cop it as well when they use punches etc.

Using those tactics just demonstrates they don't believe they have what it takes to beat the player with their football skills, so have to play dirty to get the better of them.

Baker has been made an example of - hopefully this leads to an overall improvement.

[vztrt]

I love how the AFL has turned into this rubbish they call a game. All these tough players being real tough now cause they know they wont get their heads kicked in (like Barry hall getting harrased when they know he cant do anything).

I'm happy he got what was given and a black eye to boot. I wonder how tough he would have been when a punch only cost a player 2k.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by RG

Hang on a second, I think you need to review the Hall v Staker incident.

Barry Hall did a quick turn around and smacked staker in the head with his LEFT hand. Barry Hall is right handed.

SJ did the same to Baker but used an elbow instead of a fist.

No difference to me, both caused the same injury yet no one is saying SJ needs to be banned from the game.

Hall cops a pretty unfair wrap.

Yep, and tell us what Staker was doing in the seconds leading up to the hit... he was barely touching hall, perhaps tapping his arms, definately not deserved of the hit he got.

Who cares which hand he used, cant say ive ever known of a boxer with only 1 usable hand.

The elbow to SB whilst not in the spirit of the game was done blindsided, SJ couldnt have known the damage he would do, barry Hall turned deliberately and swung at BS. It was regarded at the time and still is as a very dangerous action which could have killed Staker.

SB deserved the elbow and SJ deserves the games, but SB's actions DO NOT represent 12 weeks on the sidelines.

[RG]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yep, and tell us what Staker was doing in the seconds leading up to the hit... he was barely touching hall, perhaps tapping his arms, definately not deserved of the hit he got.

Who cares which hand he used, cant say ive ever known of a boxer with only 1 usable hand.

The elbow to SB whilst not in the spirit of the game was done blindsided, SJ couldnt have known the damage he would do, barry Hall turned deliberately and swung at BS. It was regarded at the time and still is as a very dangerous action which could have killed Staker.

SB deserved the elbow and SJ deserves the games, but SB's actions DO NOT represent 12 weeks on the sidelines.

They were both intentional, both to the head and both caused a decent injury.

Steve Johnson knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what he was after when he lifted that elbow.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

A little trigger happy Norm, read the whole thread, i have already agreed the Hall incident was for one offence.

Tell me, what would you prefer, a king hit from barry or 3 jabs from Stevie baker...
Compare the combined footage of the SB v's SJ incidents and then look at brett Stakers eyes...

SJ was never in a life threatening situation and continued the game.

Hall copped 3 times the severity for his "punch" compared to each of Bakers "jabs"..

Its a tough one though.. i can see why people are unhappy.

[Stattic]

Why are people asking for physicality?? Physicality is the bump! It's not dirty violence off the ball

[RG]

Originally Posted by Stattic

Why are people asking for physicality?? Physicality is the bump! It's not dirty violence off the ball

Nothing wrong with a little snipe off the ball, the constant nagging, niggling rubbish is what I take issue with.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hall copped 3 times the severity for his "punch" compared to each of Bakers "jabs"..

Its a tough one though.. i can see why people are unhappy.

I can too, Baker was an idiot though and stuffed up. It's just the league has decided he is a statement.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hall copped 3 times the severity for his "punch" compared to each of Bakers "jabs"..

Its a tough one though.. i can see why people are unhappy.

But do we also remember that the Hall suspension was really a 'NOTHING' suspension - as he also broke his wrist in the same game (when he over-ran the boundary line and hit the advertising fence)... giving him a 5-6 week injury break... (for which he served his suspension)...

I think where the system needs to change is obviously the multiple offences that have been recorded...

If the umpiring continues to be so poor, it is not unimaginable that a player could record as many as 6-8 offences in a game that are sighted by the Match Review (and not reported by the umpires)... meaning that infact a WHOLE SEASON could be missed (if there is loading/bad previous record) from a number of incidents that didn't really amount to much...

The bottom line(s) are this:
The umpires are unsure of what they are supposed to be doing... And this needs review...
The tribunal/match review system needs review and to work more syncronised with the umpires...

[4Vman]

The AFL need to adopt the Basketball system where the officials look at designated areas on the court rather than "ball watch"..
This means they get to pick up all the "off the ball" stuff...

I know they are looking at doing this as they have consulted with Basketball Australia about it.

[aussie muscle]

serves him right. pillock!

[AUIIPURSUIT]

i barrack for the cats, whilst i didnt see SJs elbow (i saw baker running off the ground with blood), i did see some of bakers' "tagging" on SJ, including the hitting of his hand..

I was watching with some boys and immediately thought of nick riewoldt getting hip n shouldered consecutively running off the ground.

Look its not great to watch, but if you arent fit to play, you can only blame yourself.. Every tagger pinches and grabs.

I think him being given 4 different sentences for one match is ridiculous. surely the match is one instance, and whilst all should be looked at, it shouldnt be loading his record.

id say he deserved a couple games to chill at most.

[Jason[98.EL]]

my wife is a saints supporter and you should have seen her go of her nut about it

i noticed that geelong are taking the suspension of their player on the chin st kilda are fighting a couple of the charges and taking 5 weeks so could end up with a touch less than the 12 weeks

Jason

[BENT_8]

IMO they should introduce a yellow/red card system.

If a player steps over the line as with Baker he gets 5 mins on the bench without replacement, thats enough deterrant to stamp out most of the underhanded stuff.

If a player takes another out of the game as with hall on staker, then they should be removed from the game completely and not replaced onfield for 5mins.

With the pace of todays game this would be an instant deterrant as the team is severely hampered instantly.
Handing down suspensions a week later is a token punishment as the team can be restructured for the games to cover the sidelined player.

people need to accept that taggers are asked/paid to perform this duty on field and reduce the affect a player has on the game.
Why didnt Ross Lyon send a message to Baker to cut the crap out?
Because thats what the game plan included.

Punish the team on the day, the coaches will take notice and the practice will ease.

[My poor XF]

I think the umpires and those controlling the game need to show a greater responsibility in these situations. I don't see why it's not possible for a "3rd umpire or video ref" to be able to talk to the on field umpires and let them know what's happened and that a report should be made. Baker would then know he is already on report and be less likely to infringe again. Umps are miked up for tv so it shouldn't be hard.

You wouldn't get reported 4 times in a game if you were aware you were already on report.

[jmack]

couldnt have happened to a nicer bunch of sooks.being related to a couple of afl players myself (1 previously mentioned here)im all for a bit of biff(sorts the men from the boys) but we only have soft $$$$ parents to thank for the direction of the game .wont b long before its touch football any way.and no i dont barrack for either if these 2 teams as well

[saber]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsartic...5/default.aspx

Took an early guilty plea, and will now miss the next 9 weeks... he wont play another home & away match this season, but will be able to play come the first week of the finals.