Ford and GM merger talk?

[Timeshift]

I happened to come across http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...s.cfm?t=593853 based on the news article http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ord-usat_x.htm and being a Ford man myself, took some interest in reading it. The comments "Exactly! Bring on the Falcodore!" and "I predict a million bogans would be crying over this one." made me laugh especially :

I don't think it's feasible though.

[XRQTR]

With the market share spread over such a wide base, this would be an extremely productive move in light of dwindling sales for both companies, perhaps not a complete merger but some kind of collaberation on future models. This would benefit both companies simply in the savings that would be achieved on R+D, not to mention the time factor with two sets of heads wrapped around a common goal.

In saying this though, I really can't see this happening in the near future only because of the diehard element that would be lost due to a merger such as this one. However this does not mean to say that they would not join forces, 'covertly' if you like, to perhaps come up with better fuel systems or other fuel/energy saving devices, it could only benefit both companies in the long term.

So unless fuel prices drop down below the $1 mark this could be a possibilty as sales keep dropping with people searching for more fuel efficient cars or alternative transport. Even something as simple as car pooling could effectively kill off alot of manufacturers simply because cars would last longer having done much less kilometres, not too mention the fuel savings to owners effectively cutting fuel bills by up to 80%, being the main reason I can't understand why more people don't car pool.

[Bud Bud]

This is a good thread and actually has some merit! It may just be a necessary evil as Toyota pushes GM and Ford Globally to the brink. Holden may never be able to spend a billion dollars on a Commodore ever again, (it was Zeta that cost a billion dollars, not just the Commodore as everyone seems to think) unless for them, the overseas market continues to grow.

Ford Aus are in a similar state. The Orion could really be the last Falcon in a shrinking market simply just because of cost. After all it has come very close to this in the past already, and things weren’t this bad on the global or domestic market as it is now.

The Chrysler Crossfire would never have happened unless it shared the Merc SLK platform. The "new" Beetle is straight of the Passat platform, and yet neither look anything alike their donor's platform. Note: Platform does not mean floor.

I know that these companies are the same or related but it does show what can be achieved with a concept after the platform has been engineered. This is the most expensive part and this is where Ford and GM can share and benefit from each other. This does not mean that the cars will look the same or be powered by the same drive trains.

Globally both companies are in real trouble and while GM has more financial resources than Ford neither are in good enough shape to hold back Toyota as separate entities. But if they were smart enough to share some resources in the future well….

[Steve]

I don't see why a colaboration of some sort can't be entered into. It's been done before quite successfully, a perfect example is the Douvrin PRV V6 that was produced out of a collaboration between Peugeot, Renault and Volvo.

[uranium_death]

If the Falcon and Commode were make into a common car, imagine how much **** they'd kick with the Ford's Inline 6, the Commodore's 8 with the Ford's six speed.

Toyota would truly become the true gutless piece of **** car company.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

If the Falcon and Commode were make into a common car, imagine how much **** they'd kick with the Ford's Inline 6, the Commodore's 8 with the Ford's six speed.

Toyota would truly become the true gutless piece of **** car company.

Or more likely the power of the gemini, the spaciousness of a Ford Ka and the reliability of the BTR in todays market.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

The Orion could really be the last Falcon in a shrinking market simply just because of cost. Is the Orion just the project name for the new Falcon? Or is the base model Flacon going to be called Orion? In same way that base model VE Commodore is Omega. Also does anyone know what series the new Orion would be eg B?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Or more likely the power of the gemini, the spaciousness of a Ford Ka and the reliability of the BTR in todays market.

Although your comment is a "bit" of an exaggeration, I agree with you. If they were to merge and produce just one line of cars, we'd get total rubbish. The current competition needs to be maintained.

[David See]

ok, that's it - I'm psychic.

This morning I was driving to work and thought to myself - I wonder what would happen if Ford and Holden joined forces?

Now I come home to find this thread!

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

If the Falcon and Commode were make into a common car, imagine how much **** they'd kick with the Ford's Inline 6, the Commodore's 8 with the Ford's six speed.

Trouble is, they wouldn't necessarily pick the best components. With the loss of mutual competition they would be more likely to choose components on the basis of cost.

[Longreach]

Originally Posted by Abacus

Trouble is, they wouldn't necessarily pick the best components. With the loss of mutual competition they would be more likely to choose components on the basis of cost.

Yet wouldn't a partial reason for the merger be the dominance of toyota??
So wouldn't there still be competition?

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by Longreach

Yet wouldn't a partial reason for the merger be the dominance of toyota??
So wouldn't there still be competition?

Yep, competion for FWD 4s and 6s. Bye bye RWD and V8s.

[Longreach]

Oh ye i get ya, fair enough.
What is the benifients of FWD over RWD??
Like what would remove RWD from the areana all together?

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Steve

Although your comment is a "bit" of an exaggeration, I agree with you. If they were to merge and produce just one line of cars, we'd get total rubbish. The current competition needs to be maintained.

I never exaggerate. Car companies are all run by geniuses.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I never exaggerate. Car companies are all run by geniuses.

I just fell off my chair.

[uranium_death]

I guess the lesson is that Toyota is evil.
I think the new Camry looks like box with rounded edges. I hope they've fixed the interior. I prefer to sit on cloth, not plastic.

[Bossxr8]

Ford and GM have already worked together on a few projects before, including a 6 speed auto joint venture for small cars, so this is nothing new and may result in further joint venture programs to reduce R&D costs. Merger talk is just crap. Wouldn't happen in a million years.

Has nothing to do with Ford Australia and Holden.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

The Orion could really be the last Falcon in a shrinking market simply just because of cost. Is the Orion just the project name for the new Falcon? Or is the base model Flacon going to be called Orion? In same way that base model VE Commodore is Omega. Also does anyone know what series the new Orion would be eg B?

Orion is the project name. No one will know what the model code will be until a few months before the release, it certainly wouldn't have been thought up yet.

[uranium_death]

Although Orion sounds all futuristic and all, everything that was once futuristic eventually becomes outdated.

For this, I hope they keep the name "Falcon".

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Although Orion sounds all futuristic and all, everything that was once futuristic eventually becomes outdated.

For this, I hope they keep the name "Falcon".

Of course it will be Falcon, why would they throw away over 45 years of history for a risky name change, especially with the way the market is going. It would be suicidal.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Of course it will be Falcon, why would they throw away over 45 years of history for a risky name change, especially with the way the market is going. It would be suicidal.

At the moment I think you are right, but sales for the Falcon and Commodore are slipping fast. The Commodore means as much to the Holden faithful as the Falcon does to the Ford.

The Commodore has an incredible race heritage constructed over thirty years and has at one point recently as we know, outsold the Falcon two to one but even Mooney has indicated that the Commodore may have run its last race.

He has been quoted as saying something like "We may have to look beyond the Commodore in the Future" or words to that effect.

[suttoinc]

And then there were two car companies:
one who made cars for people that liked cars
and one for people that like whitegoods

[turboute]

Originally Posted by Longreach

What is the benifients of FWD over RWD??

It's cheaper to build (not really better in any other way, RWD is usually better for servicing, robustness and handling).

Originally Posted by Longreach

Like what would remove RWD from the areana all together?

with any luck it will never be removed, there will always be people who will pay a bit more to have a premium product. Why else would the BMW 1 series be selling?

The only Viable alternative would be all cars going to 4WD, but even then there will be people still wanting RWD only.

[4.9 EF Futura]

In order for it to work, it'd require a MASSIVE restructuring of the companies - something that both GM and Ford have been unwilling to accept individually (granted there are a lot of stakeholders who also dont want this to occur... unions, suppliers etc)... I dont see how this would change under an alliance.

Im not sure how it works in the states but over here, the manufacturers obviously source a lot of parts from the same suppliers already.

Also... ive seen what happens when you take 2 big, weak companies and join them together. You get one huge, weak company.... which promptly falls on its behind.

I certainly wouldnt read too much into the "discussions". Big business constantly float the ideas between each other. They can then write into their strategic plan "we're always looking for merger/alliance opportunities".

[red_hotxr6]

It will never happen. Ever. Go ford.

[XRQTR]

GM Oz has done well, kept their sales up anyway, by way of their export of the Commodore, Ford Oz really need to look very seriously if they want to keep manufacturing in Oz.

China would be one of the most lucrative markets in todays economy not just because of the obvious new money, but also because China is not bound ,to the best of my knowledge anyway, to the Euro3 guidelines. This would be quite advantageous to anyone with a heap of shelf stock, it would not necessarily be Eco-Unfriendly, simply not the latest tech. Many US car manufacturers are doing this now, where they sell or move their old casting and dye equipment to manufacturers in China who in turn produce the superseded cars on mass. It actually works quite well because this way companies make the money they need from equipment that would otherwise lay practically dorment, while in return get the spare parts for said cars back home at a much cheaper price thereby helping sales on the home market.

This would/could obviously inject massive funding back into R+D instead of trying to always figure out where to slash costs in order to pay for the next models.

Another avenue could of course be moving towards smaller more compact cars to send back into the European markets. As this is the way most of Europe is going it would make sense to perhaps give them what they want instead of trying to convince them to take what they don't really need. I think that when the Australian based companies stop following the US lead example of bigger is better they will move ahead in leaps and bounds, I mean it's not the Euro Co's that are facing bad times, if anything they are creeping ever further into new territories previously held by Ford and GM. With the Australian product pricing getting closer to that of the import it's no wonder they are losing customers.

Just a thought.