Ford readies luxury addition to Falcon range

[AnthonyQLD]

"Ford Australia may replace its underperforming long-wheelbase (LWB) Fairlane and LTD models with a more luxurious short-wheelbase sedan sitting above the Fairmont Ghia."
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=18363&vf=2

[Ozfords]

Why don't they just make a Senator type luxo/performance/super handler that has understated looks for those that don't want to stick out like dogs balls? Plus slap a FPV badge and hood adorement like that FPV lwb show car.

Hopefully it augers well at Ford with this re-shuffle. Are we facing another cycle where everyone goes to driving small cars overnight then they tweak why people bought big cars again and Commodore and Falcon sales top the charts again! (Personally I don't think so).

[Scott]

Holden did the Grange so well, Ford just has nothing to take to the fight. Much as I loved growing up in the back seat of Fairlanes, I think they have long seen their heyday and are now obsolete with sales around 150 per month. Drop em and build us a sporty, super luxo brother to the Fairmont Ghia.

[vztrt]

Or they could use the LHD conversion money from the government and export LWB to the arab countries (like Holden) so the LWB can still be in Fords lineup.

[AU-MUSTD]

Give the lwb the 260 option and also the turbo and sales will double. Also stick the 290 in an fpv fairlane and do the same with the fairmont ghia too create a bit of excitement around it's product. Whats this engineering he's speaks of about turbo into fairmont??????? Is it not the same as falcon????? I for one would take an fpv fairmont ghia over the gt much like the senater. Nothing wrong with the gt's agressive look and spoilers it's just not my style.

[nb_351]

or do like the au... have the top 6 cylinder(vct in the au) available in the ghia... which would be the turbo... and have the 260 boss optional...
should be like the good old days where you could option anything... imagine a 290 boss or turbo in your taxi spec bf? sprint maybe? but that would have to be the 290 in an xr8, which wouldnt make that much diference...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

Whats this engineering he's speaks of about turbo into fairmont??????? Is it not the same as falcon?????

Different front bar, less room for intercooler and less airflow, so cooling requirements need to be comprehensibly testing, different wiring looms, driveline changes to match XR6T, the list goes on. Every different version needs to go through the whole validation process, they don't just put a different engine in and send it straight into production.

[HSE2]

"Gorman says Ford is seeing a shift to turbocharged six-cylinder engines away from the traditional V8 as a result of climbing petrol prices, "particularly in the last three or four months". So, could this new model be powered by Ford's turbo six?"


Here we go!! Is this fact or fiction? In my experience there isn't alot in the fuel consumption if they are driven the same way.

[BPXR6T]

More weight, just what a new falcon needs.

[XA-Coupe]

Waiting for Iphido ......

[Iphido]

Nice to see Tom Gorman, my PR person got it typed up so quickly.

From last month thread:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...light=Fairlane

Hell you might get some people to switch to Fairlane for the next fleet turnover before Fairlane/LTD is deleted and the get Statesman/Caprice forever. Then you would have some people to pitch a new superluxury swb car to.

Im sure Ive mention SWB LTD and SWB super luxury before that (a few weeks) but the forum doesn't like SWB LTD as 3 letter searches are evil.

Its a predictable move by Ford and in line with the LWB getting the axe.

The problem is can Ford do it? Its struggled with selling Luxury, early TS50 (then went more hard core HSV Sporty), TL50 (axed and rare), Fairmont Ghia (3%), Fairlane ghia (getting the axe), LTD (getting the axe).

We are looking at a ~$70,000-$85,000 sedan. People are going to want proper equipment levels, borrow heavily from Jaguar I suppose. They are going to want it to look *DIFFERENT* from a XT taxi. Real refinement and improvement not just window dressing.

Real timber, real leather, real build quality, a exclusive power level above the falcon, real options and customisations. Proper dealer service. Proper buy and feel warm and fuzzy (no badge crediability remember).

They also need to think where is this superluxury sedan going to fit and not just steal goodies earmarked for the Ghia and stick them in that instead.

It would have to be a really impressive car. Dynamics exceeding XR, yet ride exceeding Ghia, equipment levels above Jaguar, real leading technologies not just first or good for a australian made car.

The LWB cars could justify themselves on sheer bigness. A SWB car can't, theres dozens of cars it would have to best to earn private owner money (not just fleet volume).

Will be more sporty than the ghia or less sporty than the Ghia or a extention of the same direction? What will it share and what will it not? Who is it competiting against. Germans? Careful.. japanese? dam hard case too.

And can they make money out of it?

The basics are there. The chassis and powertrain and interior could make that leap. But it would not be a small leap nor cheap and easy.

Bit of a list:

-Thicker glass, for protection and for NVH and for build quality. Double glazed side windows and rear. Make it bank vault like. People like that. Factory tinting.
-More powerful and free spinning engines. I6 up ~220 kw at least (im not joking). V8 up 270-280 atleast. Don't even try for less. Direct injection is becomming a norm as well. Economy improvement. Concider a Supercharged V8.
-Atleast Xenons and LED's. Incadecent globes are so 1900's. Maybe even CCFL for interior stuff and fiberoptics too.
-All the jap/euro spec list, seat heaters and coolers all round. 14 way power seats (rear powered as well), heated mirrors, auto dimming, Voice command, front and rear cameras, 400w audio+, more and thicker sound proofing, new mirrors, flat undertray etc.
-18 and 19" wheels should be optional at least. Maybe 20". People want presence in a car and big wheels help that. Make it ride and handle tho.
-TFT screens in the front seats for rear passengers.
-Full media station with MPG4, DIVX, digital TV, analog TV, games, tied into GPS, 120GB HD.
-Not sure about radar cruise control, proberly too expensive although it should be in the planning stages.
-Panoramic glass roof or atleast a decent pressed panel sunroof, none of this cutting it up and sticking a kit in.
-Territory brakes even on the I6, Turbo Terris on anything higher
-Give the dam thing LSD (or optional), this would atleast make it unique in the luxury market. Would perfer a E-diff.
-A nice exhaust dual outlet's. Chrome.
-Heated and cooled cup holders and fridge/heater centre console
-Self leveling suspension
-Fix up all those penny pinching things. Cheap exterior door handles, locks, hard plastics, thicker carpet, seat backs, damped grips, tactile switches .
-Some impressive options to tempt people and make them unique and stand out. But not lairy.
-Alloy/hi strength suspension components. Not just cast grey iron.

But its also how cohesively it all works.

[Deanodriver]

While it's a noble idea (although I'd just pitch the Fairmont Ghia further upmarket), I don't think it'll be all that successful.

Let's face it, if you want a luxury car about the same size as a Falcon, spending the extra and going for a BMW/Merc/Jag/Audi/Lexus is going to be more desirable than buying a Fairmont Ghia, even if it means giving up some space and performance. They just have more badge cred, better resale values, and more unique toys.

They'll still get plenty of fleet sales, but I doubt there's many private buyers still buying Fairlanes nowadays, or even Fairmont Ghias.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Nice to see Tom Gorman, my PR person got it typed up so quickly.

From last month thread:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...light=Fairlane



Im sure Ive mention SWB LTD and SWB super luxury before that (a few weeks) but the forum doesn't like SWB LTD as 3 letter searches are evil.

Its a predictable move by Ford and in line with the LWB getting the axe.

The problem is can Ford do it? Its struggled with selling Luxury, early TS50 (then went more hard core HSV Sporty), TL50 (axed and rare), Fairmont Ghia (3%), Fairlane ghia (getting the axe), LTD (getting the axe).

We are looking at a ~$70,000-$85,000 sedan. People are going to want proper equipment levels, borrow heavily from Jaguar I suppose. They are going to want it to look *DIFFERENT* from a XT taxi. Real refinement and improvement not just window dressing.

Real timber, real leather, real build quality, a exclusive power level above the falcon, real options and customisations. Proper dealer service. Proper buy and feel warm and fuzzy (no badge crediability remember).

They also need to think where is this superluxury sedan going to fit and not just steal goodies earmarked for the Ghia and stick them in that instead.

It would have to be a really impressive car. Dynamics exceeding XR, yet ride exceeding Ghia, equipment levels above Jaguar, real leading technologies not just first or good for a australian made car.

The LWB cars could justify themselves on sheer bigness. A SWB car can't, theres dozens of cars it would have to best to earn private owner money (not just fleet volume).

Will be more sporty than the ghia or less sporty than the Ghia or a extention of the same direction? What will it share and what will it not? Who is it competiting against. Germans? Careful.. japanese? dam hard case too.

And can they make money out of it?

The basics are there. The chassis and powertrain and interior could make that leap. But it would not be a small leap nor cheap and easy.

Bit of a list:

-Thicker glass, for protection and for NVH and for build quality. Double glazed side windows and rear. Make it bank vault like. People like that. Factory tinting.
-More powerful and free spinning engines. I6 up ~220 kw at least (im not joking). V8 up 270-280 atleast. Don't even try for less. Direct injection is becomming a norm as well. Economy improvement. Concider a Supercharged V8.
-Atleast Xenons and LED's. Incadecent globes are so 1900's. Maybe even CCFL for interior stuff and fiberoptics too.
-All the jap/euro spec list, seat heaters and coolers all round. 14 way power seats (rear powered as well), heated mirrors, auto dimming, Voice command, front and rear cameras, 400w audio+, more and thicker sound proofing, new mirrors, flat undertray etc.
-18 and 19" wheels should be optional at least. Maybe 20". People want presence in a car and big wheels help that. Make it ride and handle tho.
-TFT screens in the front seats for rear passengers.
-Full media station with MPG4, DIVX, digital TV, analog TV, games, tied into GPS, 120GB HD.
-Not sure about radar cruise control, proberly too expensive although it should be in the planning stages.
-Panoramic glass roof or atleast a decent pressed panel sunroof, none of this cutting it up and sticking a kit in.
-Territory brakes even on the I6, Turbo Terris on anything higher
-Give the dam thing LSD (or optional), this would atleast make it unique in the luxury market. Would perfer a E-diff.
-A nice exhaust dual outlet's. Chrome.
-Heated and cooled cup holders and fridge/heater centre console
-Self leveling suspension
-Fix up all those penny pinching things. Cheap exterior door handles, locks, hard plastics, thicker carpet, seat backs, damped grips, tactile switches .
-Some impressive options to tempt people and make them unique and stand out. But not lairy.
-Alloy/hi strength suspension components. Not just cast grey iron.

But its also how cohesively it all works.

Sorry - but this really is a pipe dream.

These specs would make it come in at ATLEAST 2 tonnes and it would cost well over 100K... How else would they recoup the investment in such a low volume program...?

Not in this lifetime from Ford AUS.

[Ruger]

exactly right your not going to get all that in a 80k ford. maybe in a 150k merc.

[irsa76]

Ford won't axe the LWB because while small, market is important. Look what happened to Holden when they axed the WB Statesman. Ford overtook Holden to the market lead despite no V8 engine or real performance versions. The reason why the BA LWB cars don't sell is because they look like a SWB, the AU was just too damm ugly. Holden suffered with the VQ-VS because it looked like a Calais with different taillights. At least the WH looked different enough from a VT. I do think they need to have a close look at the LWB range though.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Mr Stationwagon

Ford won't axe the LWB because while small, market is important. Look what happened to Holden when they axed the WB Statesman. Ford overtook Holden to the market lead despite no V8 engine or real performance versions. The reason why the BA LWB cars don't sell is because they look like a SWB, the AU was just too damm ugly. Holden suffered with the VQ-VS because it looked like a Calais with different taillights. At least the WH looked different enough from a VT. I do think they need to have a close look at the LWB range though.

IIRC - Ford continued growth whilst Holden lost ground due to their poor reading of the Fuel Crisis. Holden went small German import, Ford stayed with the larger Falcon. The Stato had little to do with it as it was still a minor sales car relative to the Commodore. Holden came back when they had a competitive family car again..... then Ford put the AU Forte up against the VT - the rest is "recent" history.

[lowriding]

Originally Posted by JEM

Sorry - but this really is a pipe dream.

These specs would make it come in at ATLEAST 2 tonnes and it would cost well over 100K... How else would they recoup the investment in such a low volume program...?

Not in this lifetime from Ford AUS.

yep , never from Ford fullstop. Ultimately it is only a Ford , and its always been that way . Even Ford acknowledge that which is why what iphido is proposing would wear another badge .Maybe Lincoln but never Ford.

[Iphido]

There is nothing I've listed that isn't already avalible on sub $85,000 cars. Except for Voice command or the media center. For Ford to succeed then Ford would have to play their game.

A super luxury SWB Orion would be suitable for UAE/USA export. Increase volumes (USA) and increased profits (UAE). Lincon could definately use a car like that which would be more mid-sizer over there.

Much of the equipment could be optional, thus giving the car the ability to inhabit the $~70,000-$110,000 region from upspec calais/Caprice through to Grange.

Not in this lifetime from Ford AUS.

Well then the product that Ford does make would be very uncompetitive. They are asking jaguar/BMW/Audi money for simular sized vechical, yet with far less brand cache, poorer engineering, poorer equipment levels. It would be a fleet vechical, aimed directly and only at those who got Fairlanes/LTD's before but have nowhere to go in Ford OZ's catalog.

[Bossxr8]

[QUOTE=Iphido]There is nothing I've listed that isn't already avalible on sub $85,000 cars. Except for Voice command or the media center. For Ford to succeed then Ford would have to play their game.

QUOTE]
Its easy to spread the development costs of those things when you can sell a million of them, something Ford doesn't have the option of. With their current volumes **** items such as seat heaters and other useless crap won't even make it to the beancounters. Saying that though in car entertainment systems will have a high priority for the future and i'm sure Ford will be looking into this rather than the other stuff.

[Iphido]

Ford sells tens of thousands of seat heaters every quarter installed in vechicals.

HTPC can be puchased for under $1000 designed to work off 12v systems. Most/all of the wiring is already there for the GPS setup.

I can buy a aftermarket seat heater kit for around $100 and make my own CarPC for about $500 and the interface for the BA-BF. Development costs can be carried over all series in the next model (~10 years worth).

Look at the Honda Accord Euro. Xenons, heated seats, rain sensing wipers, power driver *AND* passenger seat, 3 rear head rests, leather..

And it does it all for $40,000!! Half the price of the targeted ford yet higher speced than the wet dreams.

The honda legend has a 220Kw 3.5L, voice reconigiton sat nav, bose audio, noise cancellation, SHAWD etc etc.. Simular price to a LTD.

What may appear **** are just standard features in this segment. To be honest the XR's body kit is also ****, but is simply expected in that market segment. Most could be borrowed off jaguar (like the power peddle function).

[irsa76]

My take on Iphido's ideas:

-Thicker glass, for protection and for NVH and for build quality. Double glazed side windows and rear. Make it bank vault like. People like that. Factory tinting. Ford should introduce the laminated side glass that is offered on Volvos and the US Panther cars. Likewise heat insulated privacy glass.
-More powerful and free spinning engines. I6 up ~220 kw at least (im not joking). V8 up 270-280 atleast. Don't even try for less. Direct injection is becomming a norm as well. Economy improvement. Concider a Supercharged V8. Direct injection would require all new engines I belive. The upper luxury class, be it LWB or SWB, is more about effortless performance and silence. More torque is what is needed.
-Atleast Xenons and LED's. Incadecent globes are so 1900's. Maybe even CCFL for interior stuff and fiberoptics too. Active bi-xenons are the way to go, more so if you a doing it from scratch. I would expect to see them on the Orion anyway.
-All the jap/euro spec list, seat heaters and coolers all round. 14 way power seats (rear powered as well), heated mirrors, auto dimming, Voice command, front and rear cameras, 400w audio+, more and thicker sound proofing, new mirrors, flat undertray etc. Heated and cooled seats aren't a big issue, like wise full power adjustment. Heated mirrors aren't hard, neither is auto dimming, Mitsubishi has had auto dimming inside and driver's side mirror since 1999! Voice command is a gimmick at the moment, the Mercedes system is a pita. A rear view camera should be standard already, not hard as the Territory shows. Big stereo and sound proofing are a given.
-18 and 19" wheels should be optional at least. Maybe 20". People want presence in a car and big wheels help that. Make it ride and handle tho.
With the current trend I expect it will happen.
TFT screens in the front seats for rear passengers. Full media station with MPG4, DIVX, digital TV, analog TV, games, tied into GPS, 120GB HD. Pretty much already available with help from the aftermarket.
-Not sure about radar cruise control, proberly too expensive although it should be in the planning stages. Probably
-Panoramic glass roof or atleast a decent pressed panel sunroof, none of this cutting it up and sticking a kit in. At least a proper sunroof skin.
-Territory brakes even on the I6, Turbo Terris on anything higher Do they fit now? Big weight needs big brakes.
-Give the dam thing LSD (or optional), this would atleast make it unique in the luxury market. Would perfer a E-diff. Stability control is a better idea for this market.
-A nice exhaust dual outlet's. Chrome. With the trend for split duals on everything I think this is a given.
-Heated and cooled cup holders and fridge/heater centre console At least as an option.
-Self leveling suspension I thought the LWB cars already did? Full air suspension would be better, but way to much $$
-Fix up all those penny pinching things. Cheap exterior door handles, locks, hard plastics, thicker carpet, seat backs, damped grips, tactile switches .
Would be nice but every cent counts.
-Some impressive options to tempt people and make them unique and stand out. But not lairy. What sort of options could you add to all that?
-Alloy/hi strength suspension components. Not just cast grey iron. I think this is also a given.

The problem is this though. Would you spend $60,000+ on a Fairmont Ghia, which pretty much started out as a SWB almost LTD, with all the fruit, or $80,000+ for an LTD with the same when you can buy a prestige badge? And considering Ford owns 2 prestige marques in that price bracket I think they would be very cautious about introduceing a would be rival.

[DanielXR8]

Aside from the issues of making a luxury car that would grab enough people’s attention and also given they would be prepared to buy a product with a Ford or derivative badge on the grille, there is the not small issue that they would have to deliver levels of customer service and quality of service at dealerships that people who buy such a car at the price point we are talking about; would expect.

In short there would need to be a complete change in the corporate culture of Ford Australia, that would involve considerable short term pain, as dealers were dumped, others straightened out, others signed up and some employees in the company retrained, let go of, or made uncomfortable enough that they leave of their own volition, as they can’t let go of the “old way” of doing things.

Not impossible to make a great luxury car with all the trimmings, but dam hard to achieve for Ford.

That being said if they don't bite the bullet on their dealer and customer service problems soon, it won't matter what they make.

Daniel

[Iphido]

I suppose by now we are thinking Ford is more likely thinking of putting the LTD equipment into the Fairmont Ghia and charging $10k for it. Diffrent leather seats, 10 way powered passenger and driver, auto dimming centre mirror, floaty suspension package, 16" chrome wheels. With the same dealer service and ownership experience.

Woo hoo. I hope they explore some of my alternatives instead.

[jonk]

Sorry, the article you requested is not available.

[Iphido]

www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx%3FarticleID%3D18363%26vf%3D2+Fo rd+readies+luxury+addition+to+Falcon+range&hl=en&g l=au&ct=clnk&cd=1]Try this link[/URL]

Re reading the article Tom seems to be comming from a diffrent point of view.

And it seems that the Ford Fairmont Ghia Turbo is still on ice. Surely stupid concidering Holdens new 195kw/270Kw Calais V. And it won't be avalible on the Super Luxury SWB.

And I fail to see how having only one LWB car is a way to make money.

Infact studying that article carefully Gorman seems to be blowing smoke out of his own ****.

By going more in the direction of luxury, particularly with the Territory Ghia, we can see where the price points are and how much headroom we have with that brand.

So they want to jack up the price of the Territory Ghia? Or add a new model above the Ghia?

I think this may be more about adding a territory model above the Ghia than anything else.

[ltd]

Yes its a new marquee, they're calling it "fugoffolden", named after the german inventor, you know; rudolph diesels man-servant.

[irsa76]

As an interesting aside, it appears that the Lincoln Towncar is being retired after next year. With all the talk about an export program, and possible future directions for the Fairlane/LTD, maybe this could save them?