Does Phase 1 1/2 GTHO exist?

[bengalla]

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I have been told that a very limited number of GTHO Phase 1 1/2 were built.
Does any one know if this is correct?
If so, how many were built?
What would be the current value?
I may be getting told a good story here but I am curious to check it out.
Any help would be most appreciated.

[Jim Goose]

It wasnt officiali believe, but there was a period where models overlapped.
AMC have run articles about the HO...

[sprint347dave]

wasnt that when they changed from 351windsor to 351cleveland part way through the phase 1

[FlipXW]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

wasnt that when they changed from 351windsor to 351cleveland part way through the phase 1

Yep but with a hydrolic cam. Phase 2 started when the solid lifter cams arrived I believe. Although it was never technically called a Phase 1 1/2 I dont think. Come to think of it, a Phase 1 was never technically called a phase 1, just XW GTHO.

[T3man]

There was definitely a HO 1.5 but how "official" it was would be anyone's guess. It has been a term bandied about for many years and I do believe it was indeed due to the changeover to Clevelands but I'm not sure if Ford referred to them as anything other than GTHO - IIRC they didn't add the "Phase" until the GTHO 2 evolved.

PS heheheh, Phil just pipped me as I was typing LOL.

[4Vman]

Much like a "C10" technically there's no such thing as a phase 1 1/2, it's simply a Cleveland powered GTHO or Phase 1.

Phase 2 has the solid cam Cleveland and upgraded body shell.

[spebgtsprint]

Of course there was a Phase 1 1/2..............

It was obviously in between the Phase 1 1/4 and Phase 1 3/4.........

Sorry, couldn't resist it!!!!!!!

[SteveJH]

Does that make the current FPV's FG Mk.1.5

[superyob]

Originally Posted by spebgtsprint

Of course there was a Phase 1 1/2..............

It was obviously in between the Phase 1 1/4 and Phase 1 3/4.........

Sorry, couldn't resist it!!!!!!!

I'm still laughing!

[disco]

I have been told that a very limited number of GTHO Phase 1 1/2 were built.
Does any one know if this is correct?

Yes, more commonly known as a Cleveland GTHO or Phase 1.5 built in 1970, the first HO's were Windsor powered and known as Windsor GT-HO's or Phase 1's all built in 1969.

If so, how many were built?

Total 110: 24 in 3/70, 86 in 4/70

What would be the current value?

Depends on the car and condition, rarity is a factor, however a PH 1.5 is virtually identical to any 3rd or 4th month 1970 Clevo XW GT. Only diff being a holley carb, bigger alt and rear sway bar....and HO on the tag

I may be getting told a good story here but I am curious to check it out.
Any help would be most appreciated.

Hope this assists.

cheers,
Dave.

[bengalla]

Thanks for your replies - particularly Disco. For those who couldn't resist taking the mickey - I know how hard it would be to resist. Sounds like a dumb request - but thanks again for your help.

[spebgtsprint]

It was definitely not a dumb request mate, it is certainly a very interesting topic which alot of us less informed GT enthusiasts have heard about over the years, and never been able to verify. Sounds like disco's got it all sorted! Cheers Colin

[zdcol71]

My understanding was that the 1.5 was a Widsor motored XY,or some similar connection.??

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

My understanding was that the 1.5 was a Widsor motored XY,or some similar connection.??

No... as explained above Cleveland powered 69 XW Body...

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No... as explained above Cleveland powered 69 XW Body...

Ah, I'm a little backa$$ward then.
So is the Phase 2 the introduction of the XY?

[kiwimark]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Ah, I'm a little backa$$ward then.
So is the Phase 2 the introduction of the XY?

No
It was either Ford needed to homologate x amount of GT's to race the GT at Bathurst, and so topped up the balance with Clevelands or they were selling like hotcakes and could not fill orders with remaining amount of windsors they had (as ford grabbed the clevelands as soon as able to).

Phase 2 was fully developed cleveland XW, as Phase 1.5 was pretty much a crate engined cleveland dropped in.

[disco]

Originally Posted by kiwimark

No
It was either Ford needed to homologate x amount of GT's to race the GT at Bathurst, and so topped up the balance with Clevelands or they were selling like hotcakes and could not fill orders with remaining amount of windsors they had (as ford grabbed the clevelands as soon as able to).

Phase 2 was fully developed cleveland XW, as Phase 1.5 was pretty much a crate engined cleveland dropped in.

Kiwimark is on the right track.

Ford needed to kick start homologation of the PH 2 with the Clevo engines. Therefore they kicked off further production of GT-HO's post 69 Bathurst (Oct) from December 1969. In December, Ford produced 49 Windsor GT-HO's (Phase 1's) and once the clevo was released for regular GT production (around 2nd / 3rd month 70), they did an early run of Clevo GT-HO's (Mar-Apr). These later known as PH 1.5's. These are stock crate clevo's with the Phase 1 running gear. From May onwards, the Ph 2 (still an XW) was built where they had a strengthened shell, solid engine Clevelands, close ratio box, 31 spline running gear, nodular diff...etc. These were raced at Bathurst 1970.

To further confuse matters, there have been some cars referred to as Phase 2.5's....now this had nothing to do with the factory. These were simply Phase 2 GT-HO's mocked up to look like XY's. There were a number of unsold Phase 2's sitting in showrooms at the same time that the XY was released (Sep 1970). Hence a handful of Sydney based dealers mocked up XW PH2's as XY's to move them. They are however XW GTHO (PH2) on the tags. About 8-9 of these cars exist and are not to be confused with Phase 3's (XY) that were released by Ford from May 1971 onwards.

Cheers,
Dave.

[zdcol71]

All clear, thanks guys.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by disco

Kiwimark is on the right track.

Ford needed to kick start homologation of the PH 2 with the Clevo engines. Therefore they kicked off further production of GT-HO's post 69 Bathurst (Oct) from December 1969. In December, Ford produced 49 Windsor GT-HO's (Phase 1's) and once the clevo was released for regular GT production (around 2nd / 3rd month 70), they did an early run of Clevo GT-HO's (Mar-Apr). These later known as PH 1.5's. These are stock crate clevo's with the Phase 1 running gear. From May onwards, the Ph 2 (still an XW) was built where they had a strengthened shell, solid engine Clevelands, close ratio box, 31 spline running gear, nodular diff...etc. These were raced at Bathurst 1970.

To further confuse matters, there have been some cars referred to as Phase 2.5's....now this had nothing to do with the factory. These were simply Phase 2 GT-HO's mocked up to look like XY's. There were a number of unsold Phase 2's sitting in showrooms at the same time that the XY was released (Sep 1970). Hence a handful of Sydney based dealers mocked up XW PH2's as XY's to move them. They are however XW GTHO (PH2) on the tags. About 8-9 of these cars exist and are not to be confused with Phase 3's (XY) that were released by Ford from May 1971 onwards.

Cheers,
Dave.

I'd be quite happy if I owned one on these so called XY's only to find out later on that it is indeed a GT-HO.

[snakeoil]

Bruce Mc Phee came second at Bathurst in 69 was that car a windsor because my Autoart 1/18 has a Cleveland in it? Normally they are pretty accurate with this stuff!

Curious snake

[snakeoil]

Thinking out loud though Cleveland would not have been homologated for 69

[OLD BALDY]

I bought a new XWGT end of Sept '70, paid $5000, from memory it a had a few XY bits, Cleveland motor, front and rear spoilers, 5 slot wheels, extractors. Gt's were just GT's in those days, the bits didn't seem to mean as much in those days as they do today. Used it quite a bit for club motorsport including a coupla rallies!! It was stolen in 1980, all I got back was the shell which I sold for $1000 and $4000 from the insurance. The days before agreed values.

[snakeoil]

Old baldy you are right about values....................I bought a XW fairmont 302 W from Kevin Dennis a famous Melbourne Holden dealer in 1979 with 60,000 miles full service history mags radio cassette player and haggled over the $1290 price which included RWC !

[FERG_51]

[QUOTE=snakeoil;5493526]Bruce Mc Phee came second at Bathurst in 69 was that car a windsor because my Autoart 1/18 has a Cleveland in it? Normally they are pretty accurate with this stuff!

Not so sure about the 1/18
stuff being accurate the latest XY GS 302 has a Cleveland in it among many other discrepencies.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by snakeoil

Bruce Mc Phee came second at Bathurst in 69 was that car a windsor because my Autoart 1/18 has a Cleveland in it? Normally they are pretty accurate with this stuff!

You're correct, it was a Windsor.
My understanding is the Clevelands weren't fitted until 1970