The Notre Dame Cathedral...

[Tickford.]

Interested in peoples opinions on this. First off, I'm posting this as I'm interested in peoples view on the cathedral fire, please try not to go off topic. An open minded adult discussion would be great.

The cathedral fire was said to be as a result of a electrical short. That diagnosis was made, and publicised, pretty much soon after the fire brigades turned up. I was curious to know how they'd come to this conclusion so soon, even as the fire was still burning out of control. As a qualified electrician, and a current volunteer fireman, I was a little perplexed to this quick diagnosis as being the cause of the fire.

So I went digging, and doing a bit of researching last week I came across a lot of information out there. As most people don't like reading, I thought a video would be better. NOTE: both YouTube video links below are best viewed on fullscreen and in HD, as it's a bit grainy. Or better yet, link to a big screen TV if possible.

Notre Dame Cathedral has a webcam recording it's build from not too far away. This webcam is live 24/7. It records 60 seconds of footage every hour, at 5 minutes past the hour. See below link.
https://www.viewsurf.com/univers/vil...ale-notre-dame

On the day of the fire, this webcam captured a moving figure on the roof of the cathedral just before the fire started. It is very hard to see in the footage (which shows the actual footage captured on the day of the fire. There's five 60sec captures from 17:05, 18:05, 19:05, 20:05 and 21:05), but if you concentrate on the indicated area in the photo below, you can see a moving figure and a couple of flashes.

Photo:


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tid8lTWv_KI

There's seems to be someone walking around on the roof, in exactly where the fire started a hour and an bit later. At 23 seconds, there seems to be a flash of some sort.

[Tickford.]

This video is a zoomed in version of the above video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pFv3B-ROc


And I also found this video which goes into a little bit more detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mh4sRYaz6I


So was it really an electrical short that started the fire?

[Adamz Ghia]

Personally I don’t think it was anything sinister as such, but I do think someone has stuffed up big time and they don’t dare name them.

[M&Ms]

9th church to catch fire in France this year? Electrical short found to be the cause immediately?? Suuuuuure…..

[Tickford.]

The two responses above is exactly how I feel about this. Was it just a worker involved in the rebuild, and it was an accident.

Or was it one of the parasites involved in what M&M's had posted?? Which is somewhat true from a quick Google search.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-phillipe-isis

[FairmontGS]

That was the saddest I've been this year. Been there a couple of times and marvelled at how it has basically survived (a few set-backs over the years) since 12th Century.

I don't think it's in any way sinister - if it was any terrorist cell of note responsible they'd have claimed it immediately.

I'll be first in the queue when it re-opens in 2024

[Whitey-AMG]

Was there in August last year and did the full tour. Went to the bell tower and met all the gargoyles....lol

Sad day indeed as its a beautiful place very rich in history. Its had its fair share of challenges and rebuilds so its heartening to see the immediacy of the rebuild effort.

The footage in the youtube clips is thought provoking, but then again with the plethora of actions displaying the worst of human behaviour we’re all becoming wired to instinctively think terrorism. I dont think it is but either way, lucky its salvageable and will continue on as an amazing monument.

Peace....

[Citroënbender]

The footage in the youtube clips is thought provoking, but then again with the plethora of actions displaying the worst of human behaviour we’re all becoming wired to instinctively think terrorism.

Well spoken. As a social media avoider I can circumvent some of it, but the lurching train of thought is everpresent. I also have confidence that if there is arseholery behind this, the French are more than capable of doing whatever needs to be done in response - and they aren't obligated to make a public show of it.

[bathurst-racer]

All of the above.
I am appalled that one of our political figures has suggested that the Australian people should contribute to its restoration .

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Trickford

This video is a zoomed in version of the above video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pFv3B-ROc

Watching that close up video, it seems the person is moving around very quickly, jogging even sometimes. He/she seems to be in a hurry.

I'm not sure I have ever known a construction worker to work in a hurry?!

Jokes aside, what could the flashes be? There's a suggestion in one of the video's I posted that it could be a camera flash. But it's bright sunlight, and would a camera flash travel that distance?

The thing that gets me is the fire started soon after in the same area as this person was walking around in.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

All of the above.
I am appalled that one of our political figures has suggested that the Australian people should contribute to its restoration .

^^^^^ Plus one to this ^^^^^^

I'm Also dismayed at all the Donations to rebuild It..
The Catholic Church is one of (if not The) Wealthiest organizations in the World...
Who are more than capable of rebuilding It, without Joe Public putting his hand in His pocket..

[|||]

I thought it was "convenient" that the fire started when a lot of the art works were moved out due to the "renovations"

[mcflux]

Can this thread please be steered back to the loss of parts of the Notre Dame cathedral.

Jacinda Ardern has nothing to do with this.

The Sri Lankan atrocity is its own seperate issue.

Social media, and the plethora of media outlets we have today are filling us with noise, conspiracy theories, hate, outrage, fear. The exact truth behind what actually happened may never be known, but at least the early official line is it was an innocent accident rather than instigate an inflammatory Crusade of revenge and vengeance. Yes I said Crusade.

I went to Notre Dame 20+ years ago, and in retrospect am grateful for that. There’s a difficult path ahead for what becomes of her.

[xxx000]

I've seen a multi storey terrace house that collapsed due to errors while renovations being undertaken.
Also seen many fires occur in homes being renovated due to the actions of workers.
I'd be imagining that this was possibly due to a tradie and the authorities aren't singling him/her out because it wasn't a deliberate act.
I get tired of these bs conspiracy ideas

[GasoLane]

Can we please treat Notre Dame fire as historical architecture and not turn this into religious or racist war.

[Franco Cozzo]

George Orwell's 1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual

[smoo]

Originally Posted by mcflux

Can this thread please be steered back to the loss of parts of the Notre Dame cathedral.

Jacinda Ardern has nothing to do with this.

The Sri Lankan atrocity is its own seperate issue.

Social media, and the plethora of media outlets we have today are filling us with noise, conspiracy theories, hate, outrage, fear. The exact truth behind what actually happened may never be known, but at least the early official line is it was an innocent accident rather than instigate an inflammatory Crusade of revenge and vengeance. Yes I said Crusade.

I went to Notre Dame 20+ years ago, and in retrospect am grateful for that. There’s a difficult path ahead for what becomes of her.

It’s hard not to draw parallels between the Notre Dame fire and what is happening to French society. It is quite symbolic, whether it was intentional or not. Not just this fire, but the dozens of other churches that have been attacked in France over the past twelve months as well (why don’t we hear about that from mainstream media).
If they let it burn to the ground it would have saved the hard white self hating left or the fastest growing religion in France from doing it in a decade or two.

[mcflux]

As a white left-leaning non religious person I am saddened and somewhat at a loss by what has happened to Notre Dame. It was/is a beautiful structure of religious, historic, architectural and artistic importance, as well as being deeply ingrained in French identity.

[minheim]

It is a shame that so little was done before hand to minimise the risks should a fire start. Apparently the alarm system was not directly linked to fire fighting authorities meaning a 20 minute delay in them being notified and also unlike many cathedrals in America no fire retarding agents had been applied to the wooden oak beams as a safeguard. Apparently the French budget for preservation of their heritage has been shrinking since the De Gualle era.

[roddy1960]

I'll try again . Hopefully it won't be deleted if I do it this way...

It upsets me to see people on AFF forming opposing religious reasons why the fire happened when no evidence can back that up as yet if ever .Probably why the moderators pulled a few comments. It's emotive stuff .

The Notre Dame fire no matter what caused it was a terrible thing but for one fantastic result . No precious lives lost .

Any opinions that it was a radical terrorist attack , it's linked to other fires to churches in France or elsewhere or any similar radical action is to be condemned and has political connections is not helpful for anything, especially since that could not yet be possibly confirmed by anyone .

The Notre Dame Cathedral is a very special building for Catholics like me all over the world and when something like this happens it affects people all over the place , not just France . We can't belittle that with unconfirmed theories .

Give the French authorities time to carry out any necessary investigations and if any breaches occurred , let the law take it's course .

In the meantime lets see the thoughtful , carefully considered potential planning and rebuild take place at some stage and return it to it's former glory . Please respect that .

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'll try again . Hopefully it won't be deleted if I do it this way...

It upsets me to see people on AFF forming opposing religious reasons why the fire happened when no evidence can back that up as yet if ever .Probably why the moderators pulled a few comments. It's emotive stuff .

The Notre Dame fire no matter what caused it was a terrible thing but for one fantastic result . No precious lives lost .

Any opinions that it was a radical terrorist attack , it's linked to other fires to churches in France or elsewhere or any similar radical action is to be condemned and has political connections is not helpful for anything, especially since that could not yet be possibly confirmed by anyone .

The Notre Dame Cathedral is a very special building for Catholics like me all over the world and when something like this happens it affects people all over the place , not just France . We can't belittle that with unconfirmed theories .

Give the French authorities time to carry out any necessary investigations and if any breaches occurred , let the law take it's course .

In the meantime lets see the thoughtful , carefully considered potential planning and rebuild take place at some stage and return it to it's former glory . Please respect that .

Everyone should keep in mind that political, religious and generally contentious discussion are only allowed at mods' discretion.

[.:4:.]

So my take on this, yes its not good having such a historical monument see severe damage, but it was a construction site. Im not going to speculate about what the cause was, as an electrician there is a multitude of ways fires can start and ive seen enough small fires caused due to different faults. But being a construction site, even with fire detection systems theres a high chance those systems were isolated due to either hot or dusty works or those systems being worked on and after hours left isolated as they arent in a functional state. Granted australia is a newer country so what we have as old buildings arent as old, but i have done works in a few herritage buildings, earliest being a few from the 1880s, and the amount of well aged dried wooden structual members screams fire hazard. So had the same fault/cause happened in a concrete structure it may just have been a minor thing, but unfortunately in something like the cathedral, things escalate a lot faster.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'll try again . Hopefully it won't be deleted if I do it this way...

It upsets me to see people on AFF forming opposing religious reasons why the fire happened when no evidence can back that up as yet if ever .Probably why the moderators pulled a few comments. It's emotive stuff .

The Notre Dame fire no matter what caused it was a terrible thing but for one fantastic result . No precious lives lost .

Any opinions that it was a radical terrorist attack , it's linked to other fires to churches in France or elsewhere or any similar radical action is to be condemned and has political connections is not helpful for anything, especially since that could not yet be possibly confirmed by anyone .

The Notre Dame Cathedral is a very special building for Catholics like me all over the world and when something like this happens it affects people all over the place , not just France . We can't belittle that with unconfirmed theories .

Give the French authorities time to carry out any necessary investigations and if any breaches occurred , let the law take it's course .

In the meantime lets see the thoughtful , carefully considered potential planning and rebuild take place at some stage and return it to it's former glory . Please respect that .

There is plenty of evidence if you look at France's current issues, just the MSM wants to keep a lid on it ....

Its human nature that we'll kill each other over different political beliefs and religious ideologies, I don't understand why people struggle with this concept that has happened since humans have existed.

A topic gets started on an 800 year old symbol of Catholicism 'accidentally' burning down in a country with serious religious related issues and you think everyone isn't going to talk about the root cause leading to these issues?

Talk about head in the sand, are you running for election next month?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There is plenty of evidence if you look at France's current issues, just the MSM wants to keep a lid on it...

Its human nature that we'll kill each other over different political beliefs and religious ideologies, I don't understand why people struggle with this concept that has happened since humans have existed.

A topic gets started on an 800 year old symbol of Catholicism 'accidentally' burning down in a country with serious religious related issues and you think everyone isn't going to talk about the root cause leading to these issues?

Talk about head in the sand, are you running for election next month?

Maybe , just maybe the social evils of smoking may have been the cause... lol
But its never a good idea to let a possible truth get in the way of an opportunity to kill each other.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/notre-da...b-before-blaze

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Maybe , just maybe the social evils of smoking may have been the cause... lol
But its never a good idea to let a possible truth get in the way of an opportunity to kill each other.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/notre-da...b-before-blaze

Quotes from that article:

"We condemn it. But the fire started inside the building... so for company Le Bras this is not a hypothesis, it was not a cigarette butt that set Notre-Dame de Paris on fire," Le Bras Frères spokesman Marc Eskenazi said.

Europe Echaffaudage also ruled out the possibility that the fire might have been started by an electricity incident at one of the two lifts on the site.
"The lifts’ electricity was perfectly within specifications and well maintained,” he said".

So it wasn't cigarette butts, nor was it a "electrical incident" according to that article. The two most probable causes seem to have been ruled out. Or am I missing something?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

All of the above.
I am appalled that one of our political figures has suggested that the Australian people should contribute to its restoration .

Don't be "appalled", just don't contribute. Simples.

I'd put my hand in my pocket to help out the Frenchies - we've got prior form - WW1, WW2, etc. It's a very significant building.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There is plenty of evidence if you look at France's current issues, just the MSM wants to keep a lid on it ...

Its human nature that we'll kill each other over different political beliefs and religious ideologies, I don't understand why people struggle with this concept that has happened since humans have existed.

A topic gets started on an 800 year old symbol of Catholicism 'accidentally' burning down in a country with serious religious related issues and you think everyone isn't going to talk about the root cause leading to these issues?

Talk about head in the sand, are you running for election next month?

No , not head in the sand but how about giving the investigators a chance to sort through the mess first . If it turns out to be found a deliberate act , chase the mongrels down and punish them but it could just as easily been a monumental renovator blunder or a simple accident too just at the minute .

If waiting until a bunch of evidence is looked at is head in the sand stuff then so is just about every criminal case or inquiry on the planet then .

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by hayseed

^^^^^ Plus one to this ^^^^^^

I'm Also dismayed at all the Donations to rebuild It..
The Catholic Church is one of (if not The) Wealthiest organizations in the World...
Who are more than capable of rebuilding It, without Joe Public putting his hand in His pocket..

FYI, the Notre Dame Cathedral is not owned by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church can use it, but it is state owned.
The Catholic Church and the French state have not played ball for some time now, so the Catholic Church will not help with funding for the rebuild.

https://independentaustralia.net/lif...tre-dame,12591

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Trickford

Quotes from that article:




So it wasn't cigarette butts, nor was it a "electrical incident" according to that article. The two most probable causes seem to have been ruled out. Or am I missing something?

Lots of flammable building materials on site. Although not certain, its plausible a cigarette butt landed on something easily flammable , material or liquid and set it off. The building contractors will of course deny it but the fact that cigarette butts were found at all on a strictly non smoking project doesnt categorically rule out accidental cause in this manner.....just yet.
A very embarrassing and irresponsible outcome if found to have any merit.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

No , not head in the sand but how about giving the investigators a chance to sort through the mess first . If it turns out to be found a deliberate act , chase the mongrels down and punish them but it could just as easily been a monumental renovator blunder or a simple accident too just at the minute.

The investigation is still ongoing. As of today, the investigations are still circulating around the probability of a cigarette butt, or an electrical issue to be the cause. Still plausible yes, but I am not too sure. As said above, the two most probable causes have been knocked on the head by the opposing representatives. The fact of the matter still remains that an electrical fault was blamed within a couple of hours of the blaze starting. While the fire was still spreading. That to me still is a contentious issue.

France is a country that is on the brink of a civil war almost. A country that has a very publicised race relations issues in the recent years. So Roddy, I have to ask you this. Of those two scenarios you posted (1. A deliberate act, 2. A renovator blunder), which one of those scenarios would you prefer if you were in charge of the country? Which of those two scenarios would cause the least damage to your country, and stop a potential internal fire from erupting? (pardon the pun)