First drive review of Mustang PP2

[Bossxr8]

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/we-ge...-fast-package/

Positioned between the PP1 (which is pretty much what our GT's are) and the GT350, it's US $6500 option over a base GT (which we don't get).

From all reports it's closer in lap times to the Shelby than it is the base GT. Manual only.

[White SW]

Very nice Beastie it is, I love the 19" wheels, would look very nice on my BA.

[Bossxr8]

305's all round

[XByoot]

While they are at it can they do a real turbo six?

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...ra-sweet-dream

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by XByoot

While they are at it can they do a real turbo six?

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...ra-sweet-dream

Well obviously if they were inclined they would use the 3.5 V6 from the F150 Raptor. But the 2018 Mustang has dropped the V6 completely.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by XByoot

While they are at it can they do a real turbo six?

Why?
The aspirational Mustang has always been a V8.
The 6 was sold for CAFE reasons, its place now taken by the EB4.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Why?
The aspirational Mustang has always been a V8.
The 6 was sold for CAFE reasons, its place now taken by the EB4.

Why? Personal choice. Why do with 8 if you only need a 6? The Stang was always about cheap and cheerful bang for buck , I’d pay that over “having to have” that big ol 5.0 “just because”.

The Turbo six Barra would be a great power plant in there in my opinion. I’ve driven a 5.0 and it was OK, I’d rather a Barra with a good bottom end punch. That 5.0 is a very big lump of engine for 450 or so HP. Aspirational or not times change. Will it happen, of course not, but in my opinion it would work nicely. Relatively simple power plant, cheap to manufacture, bang for buck and would shake up an LS pretty easy.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Why? Personal choice. Why do with 8 if you only need a 6? The Stang was always about cheap and cheerful bang for buck , I’d pay that over “having to have” that big ol 5.0 “just because”.

The Turbo six Barra would be a great power plant in there in my opinion. I’ve driven a 5.0 and it was OK, I’d rather a Barra with a good bottom end punch. That 5.0 is a very big lump of engine for 450 or so HP. Aspirational or not times change. Will it happen, of course not, but in my opinion it would work nicely. Relatively simple power plant, cheap to manufacture, bang for buck and would shake up an LS pretty easy.

Considering they only sold the Barra 6 here and is no longer produced, it's not going to happen. It will only be a variant of one of the Ecoboost engines or nothing. You have to admit that part of the character of the Mustang is the V8 and the sound it makes and a good part of why a Mustang GT has the V8. To can the Mustang V8 will only result in a loss of sales to Camaro and Challenger V8 models in their primary market.

[chrisandsharon]

Geeezuz Christ - 305 rubber

That’s a nice bit of gear, wheels and stance are spot on! Very nice.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Why? Personal choice. Why do with 8 if you only need a 6? The Stang was always about cheap and cheerful bang for buck , I’d pay that over “having to have” that big ol 5.0 “just because”.

The Turbo six Barra would be a great power plant in there in my opinion. I’ve driven a 5.0 and it was OK, I’d rather a Barra with a good bottom end punch. That 5.0 is a very big lump of engine for 450 or so HP. Aspirational or not times change. Will it happen, of course not, but in my opinion it would work nicely. Relatively simple power plant, cheap to manufacture, bang for buck and would shake up an LS pretty easy.

Well both your reasons for wanting the 6 should be mitigated by the fact that: 1. the weight difference between the two engines is marginal at best (Around 201-203kg dry weight on both); and 2. The turbo 6 is more expensive to produce. Now you would also lose the advantage of economy of scale, so now both options add cost.
Lincoln is producing its own version, and I’m sure it will offer a turbo 6. That said, you wanted it to be cheaper, but that’s not going to happen. Just be a man, get the GT and get a supercharger! 😄

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Well both your reasons for wanting the 6 should be mitigated by the fact that: 1. the weight difference between the two engines is marginal at best (Around 201-203kg dry weight on both); and 2. The turbo 6 is more expensive to produce. Now you would also lose the advantage of economy of scale, so now both options add cost.
Lincoln is producing its own version, and I’m sure it will offer a turbo 6. That said, you wanted it to be cheaper, but that’s not going to happen. Just be a man, get the GT and get a supercharger! ��

So the locally made turbo 6 Barra was more expensive than the V8? The sales price didn’t show that. The mod motor program is pretty old, but they have considerable investment in it, having an upstart in-line six from down under wouldn’t be very nice I guess.Two engines, similar weight, one relatively cheap ,simple to modify and tune and waaaay smaller, or a Coyote.

Be a man? Yeah, and be different too! Don’t need a supercharger for that. If anyone does I feel sorry for them hahaha.

The V8 and the Mustang definately has a strong background, but if it was (but I acknowledge it never will) be offered with a Barra turbo it would have opened up a different market. The US tuner crowd would have loved something like that.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by XByoot

So the locally made turbo 6 Barra was more expensive than the V8? The sales price didn’t show that. The mod motor program is pretty old, but they have considerable investment in it, having an upstart in-line six from down under wouldn’t be very nice I guess.Two engines, similar weight, one relatively cheap ,simple to modify and tune and waaaay smaller, or a Coyote.

Be a man? Yeah, and be different too! Don’t need a supercharger for that. If anyone does I feel sorry for them hahaha.

The V8 and the Mustang definately has a strong background, but if it was (but I acknowledge it never will) be offered with a Barra turbo it would have opened up a different market. The US tuner crowd would have loved something like that.

If you pay attention much to what people say, you will know I have long been a fan of the EcoBoost V6. But that has nothing to do with the accuracy of my response to the basis of your argument. The sales price between the 4.0 I6 and 5.0 V8 Gen 2 Coyote has nothing to do with the production cost difference between the Gen 2 3.5 EcoBoost and the Gen 3 5.0 307 V8. Both are great engines, but your arguments are invalid. Your follow up arguments about originality and anatomical compensation are red herrings that have nothing to do with your original arguments. If you want to refute what I’m saying, then post something substantial to prove me wrong.

[chevypower]

Also it looks like your FG 4.0 non turbo dry weight is 195 kg. Not sure what the weight of a turbo and intercooler are, but we are already within 6 Kg of the 460 hp 5.0 that revs to 7,500rpm. Not sure what kind of weight savings you were expecting between a 4.0 with a cast iron block and an aluminum 5.0.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If you pay attention much to what people say, you will know I have long been a fan of the EcoBoost V6. But that has nothing to do with the accuracy of my response to the basis of your argument. The sales price between the 4.0 I6 and 5.0 V8 Gen 2 Coyote has nothing to do with the production cost difference between the Gen 2 3.5 EcoBoost and the Gen 3 5.0 307 V8. Both are great engines, but your arguments are invalid. Your follow up arguments about originality and anatomical compensation are red herrings that have nothing to do with your original arguments. If you want to refute what I’m saying, then post something substantial to prove me wrong.

Settle down there old mate..my comments are only regarding the Barra. Nothing to do with the eco boost production costs or any other version of six cylinder engine you refer to. Your comments are out of context.

Your comment about “being a man, get a GT and a supercharger “ well, like I say, I’m happy to not bother measuring manhood by those means, and I like originality, it’s not a red herring, just my view old mate. Have a nice day.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Settle down there old mate..my comments are only regarding the Barra. Nothing to do with the eco boost production costs or any other version of six cylinder engine you refer to. Your comments are out of context.

Your comment about “being a man, get a GT and a supercharger “ well, like I say, I’m happy to not bother measuring manhood by those means, and I like originality, it’s not a red herring, just my view old mate. Have a nice day.

Fair enough, I wasn’t being literal with the “be a man” comment. I just mean go drive it and get one. We can wish it had all these things it doesn’t have, but from what I can tell, it’s an amazing car. If they did offer the TTV6, it’s not going to be advantageous in the things you are looking for. It would be torquier down low (that’s what makes it an amazing F150 engine), but it’s not like the 5.0 is lacking there. If it were me, and I had the choice in a Mustang, I really would get the 5.0 with a Whipple blower if I felt I needed more.

[FPV8U]

Is this package coming to Australia?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Is this package coming to Australia?

No word on it yet. But interestingly it's an option over there, not a new model. They have 3 variants of the GT, the base GT, the PP1 which is pretty similar in spec to what we get and then PP2.

I doubt it though.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No word on it yet. But interestingly it's an option over there, not a new model. They have 3 variants of the GT, the base GT, the PP1 which is pretty similar in spec to what we get and then PP2.

I doubt it though.

Considering we don’t get the GT350 (or the upcoming GT500) over here this package would comfortably fill that step up FPV/HSV market spot that’s currently quite empty.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Why? Personal choice. Why do with 8 if you only need a 6? The Stang was always about cheap and cheerful bang for buck , I’d pay that over “having to have” that big ol 5.0 “just because”.

The Turbo six Barra would be a great power plant in there in my opinion. I’ve driven a 5.0 and it was OK, I’d rather a Barra with a good bottom end punch. That 5.0 is a very big lump of engine for 450 or so HP. Aspirational or not times change. Will it happen, of course not, but in my opinion it would work nicely. Relatively simple power plant, cheap to manufacture, bang for buck and would shake up an LS pretty easy.

Cylinder argument aside, why would you choose an I6 Barra over the V6 Ecoboost?

Talking about Bottom end punch. The 3.5 Ecoboost annihilates the Barra for Torque.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Cylinder argument aside, why would you choose an I6 Barra over the V6 Ecoboost?

Talking about Bottom end punch. The 3.5 Ecoboost annihilates the Barra for Torque.

Ecoboost 3.5 looks like 268kw @ 5500, 465nm @ 1500 (not sure I had a good source)

Barra (325) is 325kw @6000 and 576nm @ 2750 (Factory Barra Wikipaedia), additionally according to a graph somewhere on this forum it makes 450nm @ 1500 and 500nm by about 1700rpm.





If those figures are correct, (cylinder config vss weight aside)I would take the Barra over the Ecoboost. The ecoboost only makes 3% more nm at 1500, and is likely surpassed by the Barra before 1700rpm

[Dave1966]

I6 engines have been part of the Mustang since day one. It would be great marketing given all the retro styling rage.

[jpd80]

PP2 plus Bullitt engine tune would be a great package.

[chrisandsharon]

Love my 6s hence the F6 in the garage. I dunno though - personally a Mustang with an 8 is like bangers and mash, they just compliment each other and are legendary on the road and on the plate. Take the mash away and put pumpkin with it and it just ain’t the same
Some things are just meant to be.......

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Ecoboost 3.5 looks like 268kw @ 5500, 465nm @ 1500 (not sure I had a good source)

Barra (325) is 325kw @6000 and 576nm @ 2750 (Factory Barra Wikipaedia), additionally according to a graph somewhere on this forum it makes 450nm @ 1500 and 500nm by about 1700rpm.





If those figures are correct, (cylinder config vss weight aside)I would take the Barra over the Ecoboost. The ecoboost only makes 3% more nm at 1500, and is likely surpassed by the Barra before 1700rpm

Actually, the highest version of the new 3.5 EcoBoost puts out 335kw and 690 Nm (in the F150 Raptor and Lincoln Navigator).
About 280kw and 645Nm in the regular F150, tuned for regular unleaded and warrantied to tow 6,000kg on a regular basis. You have to take all that into consideration.

[Vesper Martini]

Actually there is a more powerful version in the Ford GT

The GT is Ford's most powerful production car yet, sporting outputs of 482kW of power and 746Nm of torque from its 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6, which helps it reach an intimidating top speed of 346km/h.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...onfirmed-51475

(PS I didn't know this myself till I looked it up this morning)

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Ecoboost 3.5 looks like 268kw @ 5500, 465nm @ 1500 (not sure I had a good source)

Barra (325) is 325kw @6000 and 576nm @ 2750 (Factory Barra Wikipaedia), additionally according to a graph somewhere on this forum it makes 450nm @ 1500 and 500nm by about 1700rpm.



If those figures are correct, (cylinder config vss weight aside)I would take the Barra over the Ecoboost. The ecoboost only makes 3% more nm at 1500, and is likely surpassed by the Barra before 1700rpm

Sorry not sure of your figures they look to be closer to the 4 cylinder 2.3 Ecoboost.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Sorry not sure of your figures they look to be closer to the 4 cylinder 2.3 Ecoboost.

Checked my Browser History - 2013 Lincoln 3.5T ... whoops old engine

[bangm001]

Nice package, is it comin to Oz??????

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Actually there is a more powerful version in the Ford GT

The GT is Ford's most powerful production car yet, sporting outputs of 482kW of power and 746Nm of torque from its 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6, which helps it reach an intimidating top speed of 346km/h.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...onfirmed-51475

(PS I didn't know this myself till I looked it up this morning)

Some are even a little more special than others:
(P.S. Check out that ATI Damper. The only damper)

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Checked my Browser History - 2013 Lincoln 3.5T ... whoops old engine

They were also detuned for FWD platforms