14.91 in a Fairmont Ghia stock auto & diff what do u guy's think.

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 09:09 AM

Hey guys,

ran a 14.91 at WSID last night. I have an EF Ghia with stock auto & stock 3.23 diff no LSD. Im just curious wat u guys think, my first run was 15.47, second run 15.004, third 14.94, forth 14.91, fith run 15.6 (stalled to high and had wheelspin)

Mods are JMM Dev5, race series headers.

please let me know your opinions, cheers.

**Polyal** · 21-09-2006, 10:05 AM

II think thats about right, big cam and good headers will do that. Is it a series two ghia? XR engine?

Ruger · 21-09-2006, 11:33 AM

well done mate in a big ef ghia thats a very nice time! what mph and 60ft you getting?

OED666 · 21-09-2006, 04:33 PM

yea, thats definitly impressive. certainly a healthy 6!!!

**Stav** · 21-09-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Ghia

Hey guys,

ran a 14.91 at WSID last night. I have an EF Ghia with stock auto & stock 3.23 diff no LSD. Im just curious wat u guys think, my first run was 15.47, second run 15.004, third 14.94, forth 14.91, fith run 15.6 (stalled to high and had wheelspin)

Mods are JMM Dev5, race series headers.

please let me know your opinions, cheers.

Nothing wrong with a 14.9.Well done.However a dev 5 in a standard auto spinning ? Is it a standard auto with a hi stall converter? Stalling too high?

northey · 21-09-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Ghia

Hey guys,

ran a 14.91 at WSID last night. I have an EF Ghia with stock auto & stock 3.23 diff no LSD. Im just curious wat u guys think, my first run was 15.47, second run 15.004, third 14.94, forth 14.91, fith run 15.6 (stalled to high and had wheelspin)

Mods are JMM Dev5, race series headers.

please let me know your opinions, cheers.

What's a JMM Dev 5; are race series headers tri y type or 6 into 1's?

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

II think thats about right, big cam and good headers will do that. Is it a series two ghia? XR engine?

Cool, nah its series one, no tickford gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger

well done mate in a big ef ghia thats a very nice time! what mph and 60ft you getting?

Thanks Ruger, 60'... 2.268, 93.75 MPH, i was hoping for a 14.89 on my last run, im still trying to get my stalls right but i had wheel spin, if only i had one more run but the night was over. Cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by OED666

yea, thats definitly impressive. certainly a healthy 6!!!

Thanks OED666, wouldn mind it being as healthy as a 13.8 once i throw in a manual, just a nice thought!

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Nothing wrong with a 14.9.Well done.However a dev 5 in a standard auto spinning ? Is it a standard auto with a hi stall converter? Stalling too high?

Yea the auto couldn be more standard its quite pathetic & the spinning dont ask me, i have brand new Potenza G3's which i had down to 20psi & yea she spun alright wouldv stood their smoking if i didn back off. Yea stalled it too high (just passed its limits) so i was spewing that i didn get another run. All good though

Quote:

Originally Posted by northey

What's a JMM Dev 5; are race series headers tri y type or 6 into 1's?

Jim Mock Motorsport, Development Kit 5. Dont like the guys, they ripped me of something shocking, but thats who they are anyway. ill take a guess its tri y from the image of them in my head, sorry not sure about that one.

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Nothing wrong with a 14.9.Well done.However a dev 5 in a standard auto spinning ? Is it a standard auto with a hi stall converter? Stalling too high?

sorry didn exactly answer your question... no hi stall, plan to get manual in next month or so, i hate auto for street use plus i would like the extra 0.5 down the 1/4 if i can gain that much..

**Stav** · 21-09-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Ghia

Cool, nah its series one, no tickford gear.

Thanks Ruger, 60'... 2.268, 93.75 MPH, i was hoping for a 14.89 on my last run, im still trying to get my stalls right but i had wheel spin, if only i had one more run but the night was over. Cheers

Jim Mock Motorsport, Development Kit 5. Dont like the guys, they ripped me of something shocking, but thats who they are anyway. ill take a guess its tri y from the image of them in my head, sorry not sure about that one.

93.75MPH is showing that your car is pretty much able to get a 14.3 to 14.6 with the right driveline.I highly recommend a tune.Autotech enginnering a site sponsor does tuning in Sydney.With a good tune and setup there is no reason to not get to a 14.1..

Btw your 60 footers suck so a manual should do wonders for you.Also go and get a crazy lsd conversion and some neck snapping gears.

I think that you get what you pay for in performance parts.Despite the negativity the stuff can and does work.Your time is good and your mph is very good.

jonbays · 21-09-2006, 07:57 PM

hmm good result from a cam and extractors on an auto well done.

northey · 21-09-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

hmm good result from a cam and extractors on an auto well done.

that's what I thought.

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

93.75MPH is showing that your car is pretty much able to get a 14.3 to 14.6 with the right driveline.I highly recommend a tune.Autotech enginnering a site sponsor does tuning in Sydney.With a good tune and setup there is no reason to not get to a 14.1..

Btw your 60 footers suck so a manual should do wonders for you.Also go and get a crazy lsd conversion and some neck snapping gears.

I think that you get what you pay for in performance parts.Despite the negativity the stuff can and does work.Your time is good and your mph is very good.

Thanks useless, i know what i can do to the car, unfortunately the best i can afford from here onwards is gonna be a manual. My 60' foot is not that great your right a manual will get my 60' foot right down to 2.1 or lower, also i expect to see 96 MPH with a manual as im am sure my auto is soaking up the leathal part of my midrange & top end power aswell.

My problem is iv spent $7800 at JMM & 2 trips from sydney to get it right with them and the best i have got is a 14.9, i left JMM in the beggining with a supposed 170rwkw... so if this was true i shouldv seen 14.6 14.5. But offcoarse its not the case, my car had 135rwkw on Spiro's dyno after the Dev5. Went back down there and forced them to find something wrong, they ended up sucking me into another 800 bux to replace my CAT as it was blocked & a set of race series. Its a pathetic business they run, giving people way over the top power figures which put simply is bullshitting them.

However the car is quick but not $7800 quick, fair enough not everyone can be lucky, but i was told i had 170rwkw when i left there which was utter bullshit.

Whats your opinion? I wanna know what ppl think

Also cheers for the advice! I wish i could afford a good tune & a 3.7 LSD along with some nice grippy tyres, that would be fun.

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northey

that's what I thought.

To be fair, the head has been heavily ported & polished, all new adjustable vernier timing gear installed & compression raised. This is all involved in the Dev5

**Stav** · 21-09-2006, 10:17 PM

I think it doesnt look real good. You have spent a packet and deserve a better time.

Spiros dyno gave me 131 rwkws with dev 4 cam,gave a dev 5 131 as well. My friend hulk ef pulled 152 rwkws on the same day. Me and hulk went to wsid a few weeks back and he ran a best of 14.5 and I ran a few 14.8's.
Dynos do not indicate true performance.The track does. Realistically you would think that an extra 20 rwkws would have made a bigger difference.The bottom line is that the dyno is not real life. Don't regard it. It is Spiros tuning tool..thats all.

As far as advice...go the manual and your car should will gain 10 rwkws on Spiro's dyno and youll be able to launch that puppy like a mad man.The bigger bonus will be that you will gain power through the rev range due to less parasytic losses from the auto.Good luck and we are all here if you need to ask something.

EF_Ghia · 21-09-2006, 10:29 PM

Thanks useless. My opinion on Spiros dyno is he shows alot of "bad air fuel ratios" which "need a chip to fix". Im sure makes alot of money from that. Also dyno figures are only a guide as u say, but at the end of the day a proper dyno figure will be a very similar comparison to your 1/4time i think, i havnt yet seen someone with a proper dyno reading that hasn had a time which can be expected from that power figure.

Just for my sake, are there any I6 Fords out there with a standard auto. no hi stall & 3.23 gears doing 14.9 or less... im sure there is

**Stav** · 21-09-2006, 10:35 PM

Highly unlikely mate.I have not heard of one yet.Not with a standard diff and auto...but lets see if anyone else has.

I still think its done well for the mods.

northey · 22-09-2006, 06:06 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of the auto. They are generally more consistent and a little quicker than a manual over a 1/4 mile. Have you thought about getting a shift kit for the auto and a better torque convertor? If it's wheelspinning now with a stock auto it'll be worse with a manual.

14.9 is a pretty stout time for a full bodied 6 cyl. Have you tried leaving the line without stalling the car up?
With a standard/mild auto they tend to respond better from the convertor being "hit" by hitting the throttle quickly from idle. As long as the engine is responsive and can handle a bit of initial timing you might find a couple of tenths in there.

If you're just new to racing work on the startline technique a bit; it takes a while. Try a few different things. Stop the wheelspin. If it goes berserk from idle then you potentially have a very quick car there.
Try letting the auto change itself; then try manually changing. Use different revs for your shift points.

Don't take a whole lot of notice of a chassis dyno; it's only a guide.
Everyone who has mucked around with cars has spent a lot for little gain at some stage including me. Most are too frightened/proud to admit it though.
Keep working at it; I'm sure it's there.

OED666 · 22-09-2006, 08:52 AM

$7800... man, you got fisted there... including a manual conversion i might have spend that much.

try what northy said. i recall my quickest time when mine was auto was when i just stood on it off the line.

EF_Ghia · 22-09-2006, 10:17 AM

Thanks Northey, sounds like a damn good idea to me, i will try get the car back down the track before i convert to manual. It would be very interesting to see what happens without stalling it up. Also i had half a tank of fuel, would that have made much difference if i turned up with a 1/4 tank maybe?

With a manual what 60' could i see if i can get good launches

Thanks OED666, just out of curiosity what car did u run with an auto, it wasn your current AU motor was it or has that always had a manual behind it? Do u recal your time

OED666 · 22-09-2006, 10:56 AM

with it being auto, it did have much done. 16.06 was my time.

cat back exhaust, thermos, xr cam. it definitly did better 60ft's when i didnt stall it. i think my best was 2.3ish, and stalling it was 2.6-2.7. Plus my auto was cactus, a couple of days after my 16.06 it started to shift really hard.

I managed a 14.7 out of my old motor with a manual, but i could never launch properly. i was doing 2.25 60fts', so it was definitly capable of 14.4's with the old motor, it had a good trap speed. all of a sudden one night i could launch, and i am now doing 1.93 60fts.

EF_Ghia · 22-09-2006, 11:26 AM

OED666, do you have an organic heavy duty or a ceramic clutch? Iv read somewhere that you like to rev to 4000 then slip the clutch within the 60'.

Is your AU motor heavily worked or just a good cam & good exhuast?

Walkinshaw · 22-09-2006, 11:43 AM

$7000+ ? Did it come with a free Powerdyne supercharger?

**Bluehoon** · 23-09-2006, 03:49 PM

Whilst time is the goal, don't forge the fun aspect. :nutsycuck

jonbays · 24-09-2006, 08:25 AM

I wouldn't worry about the Jim Mock 170rwkw claim every dyno is different and i bet you won't see that again and it doesn't matter.

Thr 93.7mph tells me more about the power the car is making and its good. Very good for a Ghia the heaviest model in the range apart from the LWB fairlanes and wagons.

If a qtr time is the be all and end all for you then the problem is the falcon auto. It is way overgeared in first andn second and the converter stalls up way too low for a cammed engine.

If you want a low to mid 14 put in a set of 3.9 gears with an LSD centre and a hi stall converter 2600-2800 rpm will do it.

EF_Ghia · 24-09-2006, 10:16 AM

Thanks jonbays, i certainly agree with u the auto & 3.9gears will give me a mid 14. However ill be paying $650 for the manual conversion kit & $300 on clutch & oil. If i was to go 3.9LSD thats $1300 odd + $1000 or more for the hi stall, then i still have an auto which im certain soaks up my power & i can feel it sitting in the redline for a second or more before it even changes. I think without spending alot of money on an automatic to tighten it up then it wont ever be as quick as a manual, if i had another $4k spare id possibly do the auto & diff, but id be left with a car i use for work thats auto (which i hate on the street) & which has a heavy take off in traffic.

I think in my case, if i was to go for a rebuilt auto with faster shifts & a good hi stall as opposed to a T5 manual a good clutch & both having 3.9LSD, in my opinion i would see 1/10th in my times, thats if the auto would even be quicker... so for an extra $2500 odd i would be better off with the manual if im correct with those times, provided you have a good driver i really cant see and auto being quicker than a manual in a car with my level of power.

Thanks for the advice, id like to hear what you think...

Walkinshaw, no supercharger unfortuantely haha would'v made the car alot more fun. I did do some research though before i went into getting the Dev5 as u would before spending so much & from what i could gather i was getting a fair deal, many people were telling me it was very good value for money. Also at the time i needed a new headgasket & water pump seal. However you live & you learn, its not all bad though, the car isn slow i can beat any standard SS commodore to 180 on a freeway & R33skylines.

jonbays · 30-09-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Ghia

Thanks jonbays, i certainly agree with u the auto & 3.9gears will give me a mid 14. However ill be paying $650 for the manual conversion kit & $300 on clutch & oil. If i was to go 3.9LSD thats $1300 odd + $1000 or more for the hi stall, then i still have an auto which im certain soaks up my power & i can feel it sitting in the redline for a second or more before it even changes. I think without spending alot of money on an automatic to tighten it up then it wont ever be as quick as a manual, if i had another $4k spare id possibly do the auto & diff, but id be left with a car i use for work thats auto (which i hate on the street) & which has a heavy take off in traffic.

I think in my case, if i was to go for a rebuilt auto with faster shifts & a good hi stall as opposed to a T5 manual a good clutch & both having 3.9LSD, in my opinion i would see 1/10th in my times, thats if the auto would even be quicker... so for an extra $2500 odd i would be better off with the manual if im correct with those times, provided you have a good driver i really cant see and auto being quicker than a manual in a car with my level of power.

Thanks for the advice, id like to hear what you think... .

Well for drag racing an auto will be better than a manual after you hit the 300RWKW plus mark and is always more consistent.

For street and tack use the manual will be more exciting and faster. On the strip the manual will be quicker by at least 0.5 a second compared to a stock auto. A modded auto with hi stall and low diff closes the gap to half that though and will help a dyno day warrior get the best peak power too.

EF_Ghia · 30-09-2006, 08:53 PM

I agree with you jonbays.

Apart from the dyno side of things, i can't see to be honest how an auto can seek a higher peak power than a manual which will be locked in, provided the right gear is selected etc.

jonbays · 01-10-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Ghia

I agree with you jonbays.

Apart from the dyno side of things, i can't see to be honest how an auto can seek a higher peak power than a manual which will be locked in, provided the right gear is selected etc.

On a dyno an auto will always read a lower rear wheel power figure than the equivalent manual. Torque converters aren't 100% efficient. Hi stall converter cars fare even worse. It doesn't mean they are less powewrful just less efficient getting the power to the back wheels. After around the 300rwkw mark the advantges of an auto and a torque converter outweigh the disadvantges of slightly less efficiency as a few kw lost don't hurt times as much as being able to dial in a stall speed as opposed to getting a manual launch right every time.

EF_Ghia · 03-10-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

Well for drag racing an auto will be better than a manual after you hit the 300RWKW plus mark and is always more consistent.

For street and tack use the manual will be more exciting and faster. On the strip the manual will be quicker by at least 0.5 a second compared to a stock auto. A modded auto with hi stall and low diff closes the gap to half that though and will help a dyno day warrior get the best peak power too.

Arn you saying here that a Modded auto with hi stall etc will help a car produce its best peak power?

jonbays · 03-10-2006, 10:03 AM

No. Power as measured on a dyno Autos will always show less than manuals.

On the strip with real power not dyno measured power but qtr mile TS Autos will outperform manuals beacuse the power is more controllable with a modded auto and histall converter.