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21-12-2019, 09:46 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,380
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In the current conditions - yes. Government needs to consider an ex gratia payment to frontline fighters who have been actively fighting fires for the past month or so. A minimum tax free payment of say $10k would be a nice thankyou..
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21-12-2019, 09:49 AM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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I would love to see them get paid, especially when they are helping in situations like we have now, but realistically No, they volunteer to do a job for what ever reason. Involving wages to do it would change a lot of how things would occur.
I do think they should get some sort of possible tax break/assistance etc
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21-12-2019, 10:43 AM | #4 | ||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
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The clue is in the name - "volunteer". But maybe after a certain point and especially if you're not getting your full wages from your employer.
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21-12-2019, 10:46 AM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,790
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Volunteer firefighters volunteered and the model was based on climate and fire conditions that involved generally a specific and discrete period commitment in the past.
For whatever reason- the fires Australia is experiencing in terms of spread nationally, duration and intensity is unprecedented. And it is only going to get worse with increasing population around the world, increased meat demands and deforestation to provide crop cultivation to produce livestock feed- cutting down forests effects climate. And that is putting aside issues of energy and carbon etc etc. The problem and elephant in the room for the world is human population growth that is denuding the plant of its lungs and temperature control. As a consequence of this human growth explosion and impact on the planet, the old model of volunteer firefighter of past just does not fit to today. I personally think if you have a self employed businessperson/employee that is foregoing income, after 2 weeks in the field the government should pay each member a sum per week to cover their life expenses like mortgages, utilities, food on table, to allow their dependant families to survive and hell- it should be much much more than centrelink benefits. Something like $800.00 per week so they can cover mortgage, food for dependents and utilities. If Australia cannot do this with the wealth that this country generates, something is very wrong. It cannot be right that the military spend cannot allow a 0.5% deduction etc and that be used for our National Security in terms of payments to firefighters who will increasingly be months in the field.
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Ford Rides: Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender |
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21-12-2019, 10:56 AM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Taromeo
Posts: 10,584
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If they get paid they are no longer volunteers...
I do think however that they should be entitled to some form of recompense from the government. It could be in the way of tax concessions, an ex gratia payment or some other form of recompense. I also believe that their employers should be entitled to some form of recompense so the fire fighters can continue to be paid their normal wage while out saving the place. |
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21-12-2019, 12:02 PM | #7 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 11,270
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I can never understand how a country like this doesn't train the armed forces to fight fires, natural disasters and buy all the necessary equipment needed.
Surely all the vehicles and aircraft could be used for dual purpose. The armed forces could also maintain this equipment opening up more civil defence type jobs in the future. Yep they should be paid, the money saved from axing some useless politicians and gov portfolios would pay for them.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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21-12-2019, 12:49 PM | #8 | ||
HUGH JARSE
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,803
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Pay firefighters?
What happens when they are not fighting fires? Do they get standby/callout money doing nothing? Maybe a base wage and then a top up when they fight fires? Should the equipment they buy be tax deductible? Do you have to join a union to be a paid firefighter? Will they go on strike for better wages and conditions? Does a person on a higher wage get the same money fighting fires as a person who is unemployed? How much should Tony Abbott be paid? I could go on and talk about the Army, but your eyes would glaze over. |
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21-12-2019, 12:51 PM | #9 | ||
Frankenford pilot
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,049
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As already mentioned they volunteer to do a job. How far should a volunteer be put into danger. What’s going to happen to the wife’s and families that have sadly lost the main bread winner. Will they be compensated after loosing a family member for volunteering. Also the mostly small companies that the volunteers come from, can they cope with the lose of that employee for what ever amount of time.
I know not all fires are deliberately lit but what happens to little Johnny that thought it’s fun to see the flashing lights. A slap on the wrist and told don’t do it again. Sentencing needs to be handed out to those found guilty, despite how old they are, let the punishment fit the crime.
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21-12-2019, 01:37 PM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,434
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Considering the current levels of commitment and circumstances, I do think they deserve some kind of financial assistance but what that looks like I don't know. A couple of days is one thing but this is weeks and months.
I just donated to the NSWRFS yesterday to chip in a bit that hopefully helps out. Least I can do. |
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21-12-2019, 04:16 PM | #12 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 191
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Quote:
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21-12-2019, 04:27 PM | #13 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,437
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21-12-2019, 05:09 PM | #14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,878
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We had a situation here where a couple of people did a bit of a whip around for beer money.They picked up a few slabs and took them to the fire station,but some waste of space dogooder decreed that it wasn,t appropriate to have alcohol at a Govt funded “work” place,so the volunteer firies didn,t get to drink it (officially)
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21-12-2019, 05:41 PM | #15 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Yes, they should get paid some pocket money - either directly (tax free / not considered income for tax / pension / benefits) or through tax credits.
My parents place is out at Bargo, NSW. Dad refused to leave, and has told me what a wonderful job the Firies did protecting not only their place but all the surrounding places. Shame he is an old fossil (only just learnt how to use the call function on his phone), would have loved to see some pictures / videos of the several trucks on our and surrounding properties. Next year when my personal situation improves I want to volunteer for the SES or to care for injured animals etc. Not for the possible pay or recognition, but because it's the Aussie thing to do.
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21-12-2019, 05:51 PM | #16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,610
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Cav was this on army land where they lose things that go boom
What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires ? Back to the question should they be paid my opinion yes - do they don’t really know. Are the families of these people compensated if they are maimed or killed Don’t know this ever, same for volunteer coast guard and many others. Last edited by 11ford11; 21-12-2019 at 06:01 PM. |
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21-12-2019, 07:04 PM | #18 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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21-12-2019, 07:33 PM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,610
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21-12-2019, 07:35 PM | #20 | ||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,480
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Paid? No. Its a volunteer position.
Duly compensated? Hell yes! As mentioned above with tax credits and income loss protections etc. |
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21-12-2019, 07:42 PM | #21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,790
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Maybe we can then start winning rugby union finally!!!
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Ford Rides: Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender |
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21-12-2019, 09:08 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,878
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Mick Holten brought up a very good point when he said,rather than look after overworked volunteers, it is better to not overwork the volunteers. One of the problems in our Me Me Me society is getting sufficient numbers of people to volunteer.I am involved in a couple of organisations (1 international) and the average age of our club members is in the mid to late sixties.Another which involves driving the average is very close to seventy,younger people generally just are not interested.
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21-12-2019, 10:39 PM | #23 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
It's my own observation (and I'll get flamed for saying so I'm sure) but from my many dealings with first generation migrants from ex communist / currently quasi communist countries (not all ethnicities mind you) they tend to not bother helping or getting involved with other peoples affairs unless there is quick profit involved or if it directly benefits them in some way. Also, many younger people (30's-40's) are struggling to keep their heads above water financially, and then the younger again (late teens to early 20's) are online or trying to make a buck so that they are not struggling in their 30's and 40's.
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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21-12-2019, 10:51 PM | #24 | |||
HUGH JARSE
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,803
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Quote:
If it wasn't for the smoke they would never have found someone to steer them in the right direction and they would still be driving around in circles. You can tell they are not Infantry soldiers. Infantry soldiers don't go around in trucks, they patrol on foot killing bad guys as they go. They never get lost, plus they would have the fire out in no time by ****ing on it. Disclaimer: I is Grunt! |
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22-12-2019, 12:06 AM | #25 | |||
Frankenford pilot
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,049
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Quote:
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Cheers Bretto 73 XB GT Last of the Big Ports |
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22-12-2019, 12:40 AM | #26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sth Coast NSW
Posts: 1,512
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22-12-2019, 01:43 AM | #27 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 325
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Yes to getting paid. Or some type of reward.
The volunteer firefighters I've known are generally tradies, fishing, camping types. Other end of the scale guys I know who are suit wearing, caviar, 5 star hotel types who come across as 'superior', and unlikely to get involved as volunteer firefighters. Maybe a reduced tax rate(tax brackets)could apply to volunteers, which could attract big earners. GRATITUDE & RESPECT to all firefighters. Best wishes to those who have lost... |
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22-12-2019, 10:13 AM | #28 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,437
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Quote:
The whole thing about getting upset over Scomo going to Hawaii with his family on holidays is BS - who cares he is away with his family, we have these things called phones and internet in 2019, I'm sure he can be contacted and kept in the loop as the situation progresses/changes, he doesn't need to be in country or at the scene. He isn't going to come back and fight fires on the front line Everything is billed as 'climate emergency' these days, some ****(s) lit some of the fires and this country has been catching on fire for bazillions of years and sometimes it rains and sometimes it doesn't. |
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22-12-2019, 11:13 AM | #29 | |||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
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22-12-2019, 12:10 PM | #30 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 11,270
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Bushfires have been around since day zot, its not related to climate change, the problem is greenie, do gooder groups and the outraged closing up National Park, droving, cattle grazing and more back burning in the cooler months.
The fuel loads have been building and building over the last few years since they have been locking up more state forests, National parks to traditional and recreational users. I laugh when Melbourne has a 38-40deg day forecast and its panic stations for the rest of the state. The rest of the state is regularly in the high 30s low 40s for weeks at a time this time of year but we don't instantly combust in panic. Volunteers do a fantastic job and are worth every reward they get. They are not out in that heat and danger working round the clock for the fun of it. The businesses who they work for need some sort of restitution as well. Cav, I notice the army always turn up after the fire is out.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
Last edited by roKWiz; 22-12-2019 at 12:16 PM. |
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