Should volunteer firefighters get paid?

[Bolly47]

Should volunteer firefighters get paid?AS myself yes

[Peter B - CV8]

In the current conditions - yes. Government needs to consider an ex gratia payment to frontline fighters who have been actively fighting fires for the past month or so. A minimum tax free payment of say $10k would be a nice thankyou..

[ratter]

I would love to see them get paid, especially when they are helping in situations like we have now, but realistically No, they volunteer to do a job for what ever reason. Involving wages to do it would change a lot of how things would occur.
I do think they should get some sort of possible tax break/assistance etc

[FairmontGS]

The clue is in the name - "volunteer". But maybe after a certain point and especially if you're not getting your full wages from your employer.

[asagaai]

Volunteer firefighters volunteered and the model was based on climate and fire conditions that involved generally a specific and discrete period commitment in the past.

For whatever reason- the fires Australia is experiencing in terms of spread nationally, duration and intensity is unprecedented.

And it is only going to get worse with increasing population around the world, increased meat demands and deforestation to provide crop cultivation to produce livestock feed- cutting down forests effects climate. And that is putting aside issues of energy and carbon etc etc.

The problem and elephant in the room for the world is human population growth that is denuding the plant of its lungs and temperature control.

As a consequence of this human growth explosion and impact on the planet, the old model of volunteer firefighter of past just does not fit to today.

I personally think if you have a self employed businessperson/employee that is foregoing income, after 2 weeks in the field the government should pay each member a sum per week to cover their life expenses like mortgages, utilities, food on table, to allow their dependant families to survive and hell- it should be much much more than centrelink benefits.

Something like $800.00 per week so they can cover mortgage, food for dependents and utilities.

If Australia cannot do this with the wealth that this country generates, something is very wrong. It cannot be right that the military spend cannot allow a 0.5% deduction etc and that be used for our National Security in terms of payments to firefighters who will increasingly be months in the field.

[LG17]

If they get paid they are no longer volunteers...


I do think however that they should be entitled to some form of recompense from the government.
It could be in the way of tax concessions, an ex gratia payment or some other form of recompense.
I also believe that their employers should be entitled to some form of recompense so the fire fighters can continue to be paid their normal wage while out saving the place.

[roKWiz]

I can never understand how a country like this doesn't train the armed forces to fight fires, natural disasters and buy all the necessary equipment needed.
Surely all the vehicles and aircraft could be used for dual purpose. The armed forces could also maintain this equipment opening up more civil defence type jobs in the future.

Yep they should be paid, the money saved from axing some useless politicians and gov portfolios would pay for them.

[Cav]

Pay firefighters?

What happens when they are not fighting fires?

Do they get standby/callout money doing nothing?

Maybe a base wage and then a top up when they fight fires?

Should the equipment they buy be tax deductible?

Do you have to join a union to be a paid firefighter?

Will they go on strike for better wages and conditions?

Does a person on a higher wage get the same money fighting fires as a person who is unemployed?

How much should Tony Abbott be paid?

I could go on and talk about the Army, but your eyes would glaze over.

[73 4V XB]

As already mentioned they volunteer to do a job. How far should a volunteer be put into danger. What’s going to happen to the wife’s and families that have sadly lost the main bread winner. Will they be compensated after loosing a family member for volunteering. Also the mostly small companies that the volunteers come from, can they cope with the lose of that employee for what ever amount of time.

I know not all fires are deliberately lit but what happens to little Johnny that thought it’s fun to see the flashing lights. A slap on the wrist and told don’t do it again. Sentencing needs to be handed out to those found guilty, despite how old they are, let the punishment fit the crime.

[MITCHAY]

Considering the current levels of commitment and circumstances, I do think they deserve some kind of financial assistance but what that looks like I don't know. A couple of days is one thing but this is weeks and months.

I just donated to the NSWRFS yesterday to chip in a bit that hopefully helps out. Least I can do.

[Cav]

So you think the Army should get involved?

[94_ef]

Originally Posted by Cav

image

Looks like someones thinking "Perhaps we could discuss this after I'm done with these burny things eh son?"

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Volunteer firefighters volunteered and the model was based on climate and fire conditions that involved generally a specific and discrete period commitment in the past.

For whatever reason- the fires Australia is experiencing in terms of spread nationally, duration and intensity is unprecedented.

And it is only going to get worse with increasing population around the world, increased meat demands and deforestation to provide crop cultivation to produce livestock feed- cutting down forests effects climate. And that is putting aside issues of energy and carbon etc etc.

The problem and elephant in the room for the world is human population growth that is denuding the plant of its lungs and temperature control.

As a consequence of this human growth explosion and impact on the planet, the old model of volunteer firefighter of past just does not fit to today.

I personally think if you have a self employed businessperson/employee that is foregoing income, after 2 weeks in the field the government should pay each member a sum per week to cover their life expenses like mortgages, utilities, food on table, to allow their dependant families to survive and hell- it should be much much more than centrelink benefits.

Something like $800.00 per week so they can cover mortgage, food for dependents and utilities.

If Australia cannot do this with the wealth that this country generates, something is very wrong. It cannot be right that the military spend cannot allow a 0.5% deduction etc and that be used for our National Security in terms of payments to firefighters who will increasingly be months in the field.

When I proposed we reduce the planets population by 40% people got upset

[Tassie f100]

We had a situation here where a couple of people did a bit of a whip around for beer money.They picked up a few slabs and took them to the fire station,but some waste of space dogooder decreed that it wasn,t appropriate to have alcohol at a Govt funded “work” place,so the volunteer firies didn,t get to drink it (officially)

[Yellow_Festiva]

Yes, they should get paid some pocket money - either directly (tax free / not considered income for tax / pension / benefits) or through tax credits.

My parents place is out at Bargo, NSW. Dad refused to leave, and has told me what a wonderful job the Firies did protecting not only their place but all the surrounding places.

Shame he is an old fossil (only just learnt how to use the call function on his phone), would have loved to see some pictures / videos of the several trucks on our and surrounding properties.

Next year when my personal situation improves I want to volunteer for the SES or to care for injured animals etc. Not for the possible pay or recognition, but because it's the Aussie thing to do.

[11ford11]

Cav was this on army land where they lose things that go boom

What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires ?

Back to the question should they be paid my opinion yes - do they don’t really know.
Are the families of these people compensated if they are maimed or killed Don’t know this ever, same for volunteer coast guard and many others.

[five 7]

What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires

Haven't we already ....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Should volunteer firefighters get paid?

By political reporter Stephanie Dalzell

For weeks, exhausted volunteer fire crews have been crucial in the fight against unprecedented bushfires burning across the country.

Their efforts have sparked widespread calls for compensation.

But just what exactly would — or could — that look like?

What entitlements do volunteer firefighters currently get?

The answer is not much.

While volunteer firefighters are entitled to compensation if they're injured while on the ground, they otherwise receive very little assistance.

Some union members are eligible for up to five days of special leave from work every year to assist volunteer organisations, and that can be increased in a declared emergency.

But for non-union members, and longer bouts of leave, it's entirely up to individual employers as to whether they grant time away from work, and how that's processed — as fully paid, time in lieu, partly paid or leave without pay.

Volunteer Firefighters Association President Mick Holton said government agencies and larger companies were typically more able and willing to afford to lose staff for days at a time.

But he said smaller businesses often struggled to pay staff who were volunteering — and it wasn't fair to expect them to.

Some of the states provide a payroll tax exemption for wages paid to workers attending emergencies during rostered hours.

But Mr Holton said many volunteers weren't even compensated for out-of-pocket expenses like fuel, food and equipment.

He said that left them or chook raffles.

"To me they shouldn't need that, they shouldn't need to be wanting for anything. They volunteer their time, so they cost us no money in wages. The very least we could do is cover their out-of-pocket expenses."

What have they given up?

Thousands of volunteer firefighters have lost part of their incomes, work, sleep and time with their families.

And tragically, in the case of two young fathers from New South Wales — they have even sacrificed their lives.

Rural volunteer firefighter Steve Baily lost thousands of dollars worth of equipment while fighting a blaze near his home just north of Tamworth.
He returned home to discover that while he was protecting other people's properties, part of his had been destroyed.

A crowdfunding campaign has been set up to replace his equipment which was destroyed by the blaze.

Labor leader Anthony Albanese has been ramping up calls for volunteers to be paid for their work, saying their sacrifices need to be acknowledged.
"Firefighters deserve our praise, they deserve our thanks," Mr Albanese said while touring a fireground in western Sydney on Friday.

"But they also deserve a bit more too.

"They deserve for Government and for all of us, businesses are certainly kicking in, to do whatever we can to make sure that they can continue to do this."

So what could they get?

There are various ways volunteer firefighters could be compensated.
Leave entitlements, a one-off payment or tax breaks are all ideas that have been floated.

Mick Holton said while the idea of financially compensating volunteers was noble, it would be hard to implement.

"It's a challenging one because there are volunteers that tell me that paying volunteers would damage the volunteer ethos," Mr Holton said.

"But there are others that say while I am happy to volunteer, I can only do this for so long."

Mr Holton said the issue should at least be explored.

And in the interim, he said the first priority of all levels of government should be ensuring volunteers don't have to fork out their own money while battling blazes.

"If a volunteer could produce evidence they had spent money on fuel or food, they should be compensated for that.

"That would be a good start."

What happens next?

Volunteer firefighting services are managed by the states and territories, and the ABC has been told none of them have raised the issue of compensation with the Commonwealth.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has previously rejected calls to pay volunteers, in the face of increasing pressure.

"We are constantly looking at ways to better facilitate the volunteer effort, but to professionalise that at that scale is not a matter that has previously been accepted and it's not a matter that is currently under consideration by the Government," he said earlier this month.

But the deaths of two young fathers have shown the sacrifice can be much more than financial.

Mick Holton said serious change was needed after this fire season, with many volunteers battling blazes on and off for months.

He said overall, all levels of government needed to work together to better manage the battle against bushfires.

"We're putting the cart before the horse here," Mr Holton said.

"Rather than have solutions about how we manage overworked volunteers, it would be better if they weren't overworked."

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...cid=spartanntp

[11ford11]

Originally Posted by five 7

What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires

Haven't we already ....

Yep !

[marty351]

Paid? No. Its a volunteer position.
Duly compensated? Hell yes!
As mentioned above with tax credits and income loss protections etc.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by five 7

What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires

Haven't we already ....

Maybe we can then start winning rugby union finally!!!

[Tassie f100]

Mick Holten brought up a very good point when he said,rather than look after overworked volunteers, it is better to not overwork the volunteers. One of the problems in our Me Me Me society is getting sufficient numbers of people to volunteer.I am involved in a couple of organisations (1 international) and the average age of our club members is in the mid to late sixties.Another which involves driving the average is very close to seventy,younger people generally just are not interested.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Mick Holten brought up a very good point when he said,rather than look after overworked volunteers, it is better to not overwork the volunteers. One of the problems in our Me Me Me society is getting sufficient numbers of people to volunteer.I am involved in a couple of organisations (1 international) and the average age of our club members is in the mid to late sixties.Another which involves driving the average is very close to seventy,younger people generally just are not interested.

I don't think it's just young people, but there are certain cultural backgrounds that simply don't get the concept of helping others for no reason but to help.

It's my own observation (and I'll get flamed for saying so I'm sure) but from my many dealings with first generation migrants from ex communist / currently quasi communist countries (not all ethnicities mind you) they tend to not bother helping or getting involved with other peoples affairs unless there is quick profit involved or if it directly benefits them in some way.

Also, many younger people (30's-40's) are struggling to keep their heads above water financially, and then the younger again (late teens to early 20's) are online or trying to make a buck so that they are not struggling in their 30's and 40's.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by 11ford11

Cav was this on army land where they lose things that go boom

What happens when NZ invades us and there too tired from fighting fires ?

Back to the question should they be paid my opinion yes - do they don’t really know.
Are the families of these people compensated if they are maimed or killed Don’t know this ever, same for volunteer coast guard and many others.

The Army blokes were on a tactical navigation exercise where an occifer gave them directions, consequently they were hopelessly lost.

If it wasn't for the smoke they would never have found someone to steer them in the right direction and they would still be driving around in circles.

You can tell they are not Infantry soldiers.

Infantry soldiers don't go around in trucks, they patrol on foot killing bad guys as they go.

They never get lost, plus they would have the fire out in no time by ****ing on it.

Disclaimer: I is Grunt!

[73 4V XB]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I don't think it's just young people, but there are certain cultural backgrounds that simply don't get the concept of helping others for no reason but to help.

It's my own observation (and I'll get flamed for saying so I'm sure) but from my many dealings with first generation migrants from ex communist / currently quasi communist countries (not all ethnicities mind you) they tend to not bother helping or getting involved with other peoples affairs unless there is quick profit involved or if it directly benefits them in some way.

Also, many younger people (30's-40's) are struggling to keep their heads above water financially, and then the younger again (late teens to early 20's) are online or trying to make a buck so that they are not struggling in their 30's and 40's.

I did notice on the news tonight the amount of healthy, agile body’s on the climate protest line.... again....

[snap0964]

[sr71]

Yes to getting paid. Or some type of reward.
The volunteer firefighters I've known are generally tradies, fishing, camping types. Other end of the scale guys I know who are suit wearing, caviar, 5 star hotel types who come across as 'superior', and unlikely to get involved as volunteer firefighters.
Maybe a reduced tax rate(tax brackets)could apply to volunteers, which could attract big earners.

GRATITUDE & RESPECT to all firefighters.
Best wishes to those who have lost...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 73 4V XB

I did notice on the news tonight the amount of healthy, agile body’s on the climate protest line.... again....

I'm more of an arm chair protester these days

The whole thing about getting upset over Scomo going to Hawaii with his family on holidays is BS - who cares he is away with his family, we have these things called phones and internet in 2019, I'm sure he can be contacted and kept in the loop as the situation progresses/changes, he doesn't need to be in country or at the scene.

He isn't going to come back and fight fires on the front line

Everything is billed as 'climate emergency' these days, some ****(s) lit some of the fires and this country has been catching on fire for bazillions of years and sometimes it rains and sometimes it doesn't.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm more of an arm chair protester these days

The whole thing about getting upset over Scomo going to Hawaii with his family on holidays is BS - who cares he is away with his family, we have these things called phones and internet in 2019, I'm sure he can be contacted and kept in the loop as the situation progresses/changes, he doesn't need to be in country or at the scene.

He isn't going to come back and fight fires on the front line

Everything is billed as 'climate emergency' these days, some ****(s) lit some of the fires and this country has been catching on fire for bazillions of years and sometimes it rains and sometimes it doesn't.

Lets not forget the new mantra of the "runaway/it's too late/must spend billions/irreversible/insert new bs" of the alarmists, conveniently ignoring 4.5 billion years of evolution and relying on weather data from the last 150 years to make scientifically informed decisions.

[roKWiz]

Bushfires have been around since day zot, its not related to climate change, the problem is greenie, do gooder groups and the outraged closing up National Park, droving, cattle grazing and more back burning in the cooler months.
The fuel loads have been building and building over the last few years since they have been locking up more state forests, National parks to traditional and recreational users.

I laugh when Melbourne has a 38-40deg day forecast and its panic stations for the rest of the state.
The rest of the state is regularly in the high 30s low 40s for weeks at a time this time of year but we don't instantly combust in panic.

Volunteers do a fantastic job and are worth every reward they get. They are not out in that heat and danger working round the clock for the fun of it. The businesses who they work for need some sort of restitution as well.


Cav, I notice the army always turn up after the fire is out.