Drive Article: XR8 & SS-V taken to the Summernats

[Ford17]

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/w...08-12jm43.html

Interesting responses from the crowd - only 43% interviewed said they would consider buying a new Falcon or Commodore.

And with quite a few 'hardcore' attendees praising the likes of Hyundai and Mazda

Although not mentioned, I would imagine there would be a decent number hoping other people buy new Falcons & Commodores, so they will have 'stock' to work with in 10-20 or so years' time.

[ford man xf]

No offense to the people that attend, but most the types that do attend are in no position to even consider buying a new car, hence why they mostly own second hand cars.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

No offense to the people that attend, but most the types that do attend are in no position to even consider buying a new car, hence why they mostly own second hand cars.

Is that you Joe Hockey?

[mtbkym01]

Nice main article photo

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Is that you Joe Hockey?

Post made me lol

[Focused]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

No offense to the people that attend, but most the types that do attend are in no position to even consider buying a new car, hence why they mostly own second hand cars.

Just like a fair proportion of Falcon-worshiping members on here...

You'll inevitably be criticised for being a toff... blah blah hence the reference to Joe Hockey already, but you're probably right...

And yes, the article is rubbish. Tis a slow news day as everyone is waiting for the Detroit MS so they had to publish something.

[bluovl]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

No offense to the people that attend, but most the types that do attend are in no position to even consider buying a new car, hence why they mostly own second hand cars.

A lot of the cars entered are worth way more than a new XR8 or SS-V.
I'm often staggered about how much cash is put into these cars whether it be for show or go.
I would say that Summernats entrants & spectators couldn't care less about new cars. Summernats isn't about bog stock new cars.
They can be seen at car yards everyday.
The journalist in this instance may as well conducted his B.S. survey at a golf tournament, ballroom dancing competition or yoga class, where they too wouldn't be interested.


Its a rubbish article that is typical of todays crop of motoring journalists.
Years ago motoring journalists were dedicated to the subject they wrote articles about, that being cars.
These days journalists write about cars one minute and then sport the next.

[AndyXR6T]

"I'd prefer the Holden interior, exterior and handling with the XR8's driveline. That would be the ultimate Aussie car."

^^ this guy hit it on the head for me.
I believe too many people dislike the new look of the falcon, and although we can defend them for their budget etc, it does lack what others desire in the commodore. Commodores down side is the "driveline" as this bloke said

[WHYME]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford man xf
No offense to the people that attend, but most the types that do attend are in no position to even consider buying a new car, hence why they mostly own second hand cars.

Originally Posted by bluovl

A lot of the cars entered are worth way more than a new XR8 or SS-V.
I'm often staggered about how much cash is put into these cars whether it be for show or go.

ford man xf wasn't talking about the entrants, but rather those that attend as in the spectators. I don't mean any offence either but judging by most of the crowd, he isn't wrong.

[graphicgoose]

What a pointless, nothingness article...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by tempted

These comments in particular make me feel like bashing my head against a brick wall:

Well duh you idiots, you get what you pay for. Do you expect a full size sports/luxury V8 sedan for the price of a small 4 cylinder econobox?

Do they expect to get, or do they really need. Sales of luxury/sports model Falcons was never going to keep Falcon viable.
The average punter doesn't need a big 6cyl sedan let alone a turbo or V8.
The perception that the home grown product is more reliable and cheaper to maintain is a distant memory, throw in the contempt many Ford dealers show their customers and its a recipe for disaster.
It wouldn't matter how good their product is, the brand is on the nose and the only way to change it is with real, coal face change and price gouging GTF's and XR8's isn't a good start.

Originally Posted by tempted

The current model Falcons and Commodores are as solid and well built as they've ever been in their history. What models would you seriously rate as better?

I don't necessarily believe that is true.
Whilst the recent crop of offerings are a complete package, most will be worn out within 15 yrs, something an XF built 3 decades ago could achieve with ease, door handles aside.
Look at the AU, arguably one of the best screwed together Falcons in history and at 13+yrs old, the cars are showing their age.
Most BA's are falling apart.
Not everyone hovers around car forums and details their cars to the hilt, most got treated ordinarily and are showing it a decade on.

The fact is someone who doesn't need a big 6 for $40k can get a Korean import that will last as long, be cheaper to run and with the change you could buy another when the time came.

All this article points out is that if both marque's cant get their core audience to buy in anymore, what chance do they have with average Joe.

My2c.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Do they expect to get, or do they really need. Sales of luxury/sports model Falcons was never going to keep Falcon viable.
The average punter doesn't need a big 6cyl sedan let alone a turbo or V8.
The perception that the home grown product is more reliable and cheaper to maintain is a distant memory, throw in the contempt many Ford dealers show their customers and its a recipe for disaster.
It wouldn't matter how good their product is, the brand is on the nose and the only way to change it is with real, coal face change and price gouging GTF's and XR8's isn't a good start.



I don't necessarily believe that is true.
Whilst the recent crop of offerings are a complete package, most will be worn out within 15 yrs, something an XF built 3 decades ago could achieve with ease, door handles aside.
Look at the AU, arguably one of the best screwed together Falcons in history and at 13+yrs old, the cars are showing their age.
Most BA's are falling apart.
Not everyone hovers around car forums and details their cars to the hilt, most got treated ordinarily and are showing it a decade on.

The fact is someone who doesn't need a big 6 for $40k can get a Korean import that will last as long, be cheaper to run and with the change you could buy another when the time came.

All this article points out is that if both marque's cant get their core audience to buy in anymore, what chance do they have with average Joe.

My2c.

I hear people say this stuff all the time.......and yet taxi drivers still choose the Aussie falcon. Obviously they are dwindling now but if a car can handle the rigors of taxi life......and continue too be chosen by taxi drivers for MANY years.....I think that says something.
At least half the taxis I see around my area and in thecity are falcon G6s.

I bought a 2 yr old G6ET for the same money as my Nate paid for a new Hyundai i30 with lots of options. They regret it. It's uncomfortable, full to the brim with plastic and is not tolerating well with the beating kids give it. Funny thing is they also only barely save on fuel over me as they both flog it around as it's a gutless diesel.
But everyone has opinions and eg's.....so I digress!

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by AndyXR6T

"I'd prefer the Holden interior, exterior and handling with the XR8's driveline. That would be the ultimate Aussie car."

^^ this guy hit it on the head for me.
I believe too many people dislike the new look of the falcon, and although we can defend them for their budget etc, it does lack what others desire in the commodore. Commodores down side is the "driveline" as this bloke said

It rattles my cage when people say the commodore driveline is no good. It has a big stonking 6.0L V8 that is very impressive in its own right. Nothing to be ashamed of

It's just that the xr8 has a better motor, but it don't make the commodore ss motor no good.

Just a few years back it was the same 6.0L V8 in the commodore that was giving the boss 290 5.4 a good flogging... But people with a b series cobra don't say their driveline is no good.

[bradles024]

It was good back in 2006. And I don't know about giving the 290 a flogging. There's not much in it.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I hear people say this stuff all the time.......and yet taxi drivers still choose the Aussie falcon. Obviously they are dwindling now but if a car can handle the rigors of taxi life......and continue too be chosen by taxi drivers for MANY years.....I think that says something.
At least half the taxis I see around my area and in thecity are falcon G6s.

I bought a 2 yr old G6ET for the same money as my Nate paid for a new Hyundai i30 with lots of options. They regret it. It's uncomfortable, full to the brim with plastic and is not tolerating well with the beating kids give it. Funny thing is they also only barely save on fuel over me as they both flog it around as it's a gutless diesel.
But everyone has opinions and eg's.....so I digress!

This.
Nuff said.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I bought a 2 yr old G6ET for the same money as my Nate paid for a new Hyundai i30 with lots of options. They regret it. It's uncomfortable, full to the brim with plastic and is not tolerating well with the beating kids give it. Funny thing is they also only barely save on fuel over me as they both flog it around as it's a gutless diesel.
But everyone has opinions and eg's.....so I digress!

Ive driven enough other cars to appreciate how nice the Falcon/Commodore. Personally have never been impressed with small cars.

[ebv8]

why didn't they take an I30 along with them also and see how many people looked at the i30 and thought gee thats much better than a commodore or falcon.

hang one why did they even take a stock std cars to summernats?? what they should have done is thrown them on the pad and let loose...that would have got my attention

[AUwindsor]

none of this really has anything to do with ford or holden vehicles being unwanted, at the end of the day its all about $$$$$$

if a new Xr8 or SSV was $20k, watch everyone want one again

average workers cant afford $35+k vehicles when they can just buy a secondhand car for $1000, drive it into the ground and buy another again..... you can do that for the next 35 years for the price of one new Ford or Holden, which will too fall apart anyway

[AUwindsor]

the aussie money train of corporations taking us all for mugs and making a killing while they buy new Bugatti Veyrons for themselves, those days are coming to a close... younger people aren't going to slave endlessly to make billionaires richer

price cars more FAIRLY, like they do in the USA, and you might sell them again like back in the 90's

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I hear people say this stuff all the time.......and yet taxi drivers still choose the Aussie falcon. Obviously they are dwindling now but if a car can handle the rigors of taxi life......and continue too be chosen by taxi drivers for MANY years.....I think that says something.
At least half the taxis I see around my area and in thecity are falcon G6s.

I bought a 2 yr old G6ET for the same money as my Nate paid for a new Hyundai i30 with lots of options. They regret it. It's uncomfortable, full to the brim with plastic and is not tolerating well with the beating kids give it. Funny thing is they also only barely save on fuel over me as they both flog it around as it's a gutless diesel.
But everyone has opinions and eg's.....so I digress!

Many taxi companies in recent times have bought either 2nd hand Falcon wagons (BF3) or Hybrid Camry's.
To see a Falcon of Commodore taxi is a rarity in SA at least.

You bought a 2 year old G6ET for the same price as an i30.
All that does is justify why no one would buy a NEW Falcon, the depreciation over 2 years is crippling.

As for the way your mates kids treat the i30, I'd say that's an indicator of the nature of the kids and the parenting skills, not the quality of the car.
No car will put up with kids jumping over seats and kicking the plastic trims without showing it.
I recently sold my old AU to my nephew, when he took delivery of it it was still in immaculate condition despite having my 4 kids (3-16yo) filter through it. He's had it for the blink of an eye and it is destroyed from his 3 kids (1-5yo)
You cant blame the car for how people treat it.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

none of this really has anything to do with ford or holden vehicles being unwanted, at the end of the day its all about $$$$$$

if a new Xr8 or SSV was $20k, watch everyone want one again

average workers cant afford $35+k vehicles when they can just buy a secondhand car for $1000, drive it into the ground and buy another again..... you can do that for the next 35 years for the price of one new Ford or Holden, which will too fall apart anyway

Exactly!

I just bought the missus a 1 owner 2010 Camry Sportivo for $12k with 80k on it. It still presents as new, doesn't miss a beat and having just done the 90k major service myself at a cost of $130 is dirt cheap to maintain.
If I wandered into a Toyota dealership and bought one with one less set of finger prints on the steering wheel (read NEW) it would have cost me $34k. then a fortune in dealer service fees to maintain the factory warranty.

With the change I can buy 2 more 4yr old Sportivo's when the need arises.

Then consider that a 2010 Camry Sportivo has the same ANCAP rating as a 2015 FGX, not to mention the extra airbags.

[XBv8mmm!]

Got to disagree.

I was at the Nats on Sunday, on the central concourse, with some other cars from the FPV/XR club, ACT.

We were there for maybe 4 hours, I would have had several dozen people come over and give it a good look. Many of them gave it compliments, some didn't, a number of them said they had orders in for one. A group of 4 blokes hung around for about 20 minutes talking to me about it.

Generally speaking the talk was very positive. Maybe it was because Sunday is club day. When you get the people who appreciate a factory, or near factory car more than a boom box on wheels with a paint job that looks like my 6 year old daughter threw up on it.


Cheers,
Garry.

P.S. The amount of head turns, thumbs up and stares and other cars tailgating/driving along side/speeding up to look at the front etc., the car got as I was driving to and from the Nats along Northbourne ave had to be seen to be believed.

[MITCHAY]

Whether they are modded or not, you'd think that they would get more interest than they apparently did because A) both are the best we have seen and B) more or less the last we will see.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

the aussie money train of corporations taking us all for mugs and making a killing while they buy new Bugatti Veyrons for themselves, those days are coming to a close... younger people aren't going to slave endlessly to make billionaires richer

price cars more FAIRLY, like they do in the USA, and you might sell them again like back in the 90's

Agree and disagree.

Falcons & Commodores were still $30K+ in the 90's, when the average wage was close to $35K.

But cars in the US comparatively seem cheaper than what we have to pay. Would largely be due to economies of scale - i.e. More volume (population 300m+) = lower price - I would think.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Agree and disagree.

Falcons & Commodores were still $30K+ in the 90's, when the average wage was close to $35K.

But cars in the US comparatively seem cheaper than what we have to pay. Would largely be due to economies of scale - i.e. More volume (population 300m+) = lower price - I would think.

US spec cars are usually stripped of equipment too. Most of what is standard in Australian spec cars is optional in equivalent US cars.

[bradles024]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

US spec cars are usually stripped of equipment too. Most of what is standard in Australian spec cars is optional in equivalent US cars.

Geez it's the exact opposite in the commodore/Chevrolet ss

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Agree and disagree.

Falcons & Commodores were still $30K+ in the 90's, when the average wage was close to $35K.

But cars in the US comparatively seem cheaper than what we have to pay. Would largely be due to economies of scale - i.e. More volume (population 300m+) = lower price - I would think.

Average wage? What about living expenses

and what the commonwealth/state governments and corporations have done to so many small businesses

ford and holden just cant expect to be competitive anymore unless their cars are priced similar to Korean imports

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8;
You bought a 2 year old G6ET for the same price as an i30.
All that does is justify why no one would buy a [B

NEW [/B]Falcon, the depreciation over 2 years is crippling.

As for the way your mates kids treat the i30, I'd say that's an indicator of the nature of the kids and the parenting skills, not the quality of the car.
No car will put up with kids jumping over seats and kicking the plastic trims without showing it.
I recently sold my old AU to my nephew, when he took delivery of it it was still in immaculate condition despite having my 4 kids (3-16yo) filter through it. He's had it for the blink of an eye and it is destroyed from his 3 kids (1-5yo)
You cant blame the car for how people treat it.

For starters it also shows that you can pay 35k for a small cheap car that's depressing, slow and falls apart as a family car.

As for your parenting skills assumptions. They have one "baby"....the pram doesn't even fit in the boot so the seats have to be folded down. Now it's a 2.3 seater car. The rear loading area is showing about 20yrs of age from being used "normally". The seats have worn due to the baby seats that are fixed in the rear.
The seats and fabric in the rear have had it after less then a year of baby spew toys and nappy changes.
Nothing any family car wouldn't go through. Plus the interior has been professionally cleaned aswell! The father is quite **** actually.....that's why I have even heard about the cars shortcomings. Maybe it's an interior lemon

[XBv8mmm!]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

For starters it also shows that you can pay 35k for a small cheap car that's depressing, slow and falls apart as a family car.

As for your parenting skills assumptions. They have one "baby"....the pram doesn't even fit in the boot so the seats have to be folded down. Now it's a 2.3 seater car. The rear loading area is showing about 20yrs of age from being used "normally". The seats have worn due to the baby seats that are fixed in the rear.
The seats and fabric in the rear have had it after less then a year of baby spew toys and nappy changes.
Nothing any family car wouldn't go through. Plus the interior has been professionally cleaned aswell! The father is quite **** actually.....that's why I have even heard about the cars shortcomings. Maybe it's an interior lemon

No, that's just what Hyundai build!

[rancidpunx]

I see new cars all day every day and Hyundai etc are still well short of interior quality. They are nicely put together but normal use ages them quickly unless your are extremely meticulous in your detailing at the weekend. The Santa Fe is not to bad but the IX cars especially the IX35 are terrible. I remember seeing a 2 week old 35 and the rear carpets were all ready piled and frayed from 2 kids.
They are not alone though, a friends F6 with 3 kids stood up quiet well aprt from the rear console air vent section. In comparison his now year old GTS is trashed. Looks of quality and actual quality are 2 different things.