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11-12-2023, 08:07 PM | #1 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,224
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Hard to believe today is 10 years since this announcement.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...y-2017/5150034 I predicted this would occur when Ford announced in 2012 they were ceasing production in Australia. At that time people were rubbishing my claim saying Ford were only closing because they made shyte cars. Holden on the other hand made "good" cars and were here to stay. As a 2 decade veteran working at a large, high tech tier 1 supplier to Ford, Holden, Mitsubishi and Toyota, I understood that Ford needed Holden and vice versa to justify the expense of designing and building unique cars for Australia. Once one ended local production the other was likely to follow. In early 2018 it was clear GM's move to make Holden 100% imported vehicles was not going well. In early 2018 I questioned if the Holden brand would survive. But GM leaving Australia was not something I thought was a real possibility. https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11471430 However as I write this I still cannot believe that GM decided that it was all too difficult and exited the Australian market altogether. I am fairly confident in saying that 10 years ago today nobody predicted that the Holden brand would be dead by now. This demonstrates to me how little the parent companies knew or understood the Australia car market. Holden imploded very quickly once the last VF rolled off the assembly line. Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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11-12-2023, 08:16 PM | #2 | ||
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11-12-2023, 08:18 PM | #3 | |||
#neuteredlyfe
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,625
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Holden thought that they could pass off a 4cyl FWD as a Commodore and people would blindly buy them. Don't get me wrong, the ZB was a great car in it's own right, but a Commodore it was not. What Holden should have done was invested in Colorado. Series I RG Colorados were pigs. The Series II were not a bad vehicle - we bought one brand new which now has 167k and never been in for any sort of warranty. People can hate on dual cabs until their heart is content. but the cold hard facts are that dual cabs are what Australians buy these days. Last edited by PG2; 11-12-2023 at 08:30 PM. |
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11-12-2023, 08:24 PM | #4 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
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This thread makes amusing reading of the days prior to the official announcement
https://www.fordforums.com.au/showth...ghlight=Holden
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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11-12-2023, 08:31 PM | #5 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,224
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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11-12-2023, 08:48 PM | #6 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Location: Centrefold Lounge
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Put LCT on them and remove the FBT exemptions and you'll find their sales decrease significantly, Give the same favorable tax concessions to EVs or things like free rego and watch everyone jump ship. Or remove the government interference in the market, no more tax payer funded subsidies on LCT/FBT and see what the market really wants. |
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11-12-2023, 08:48 PM | #7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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11-12-2023, 08:59 PM | #8 | |||
#neuteredlyfe
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Re-read my post in the context it was made. Any number of reasons, including the ones you listed, are why Australians are buying dual cabs. The cold hard facts are that Holden invested in a car that nobody wanted. We are talking about 10 years ago, EVs were barely even mentioned. |
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11-12-2023, 09:42 PM | #9 | |||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Quote:
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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11-12-2023, 09:57 PM | #10 | ||
praek tih kl jo kr
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atwell W.A.
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I can believe its 10 years, try buying new parts for a series 2 VF Commodore and you can see that GM does not give a toss about Holden or its ongoing parts supply.
I waited 5 months for a back ordered series 2 lower grille ( none second hand ), only to be told that Amcap have roughly 500 on backorder and no ETA whatsoever, the grille lists at $165 for us so not a big dollar item, but I ended up having to buy a non painted second from a wrecker in Vic for $770 with freight it rounded out at $900, then had to repair a blemish and have it painted, so the customer could have their car back. I thought this problem might be isolated to the VF, but there are plenty of other Holden models we cant get parts for, 2018 Colorado front bumper cover a couple of weeks ago was on back order no ETA, Cruise grille the same, insurance companies will write more of them off now if you cant get parts for them. It feels like they have been gone for 20 years |
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11-12-2023, 10:01 PM | #11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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11-12-2023, 10:13 PM | #12 | |||
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The difference is, Ford took the gamble on investing into a sector of the marker that was showing signs of growth, the PX Ranger hit the market and Ford never looked back. Holden invested in a model and category that had imploded in the lead up to its release, the ZB tanked not necessarily because of the FWD thing, rather it was the wrong vehicle.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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11-12-2023, 10:14 PM | #13 | |||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,224
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Quote:
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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11-12-2023, 10:20 PM | #14 | |||
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They way GM dealt with Holden was disgraceful. But then, GM have a long history of destroying car brands, in particular ones outside of the US. They also have short memories, making the same mistakes over and over.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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11-12-2023, 10:25 PM | #15 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,437
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Quote:
My point about EVs is that the moment something else scores exemptions from taxes people will flock to those vehicles too, it doesn't matter if its Thailand Specials/EVs/SUVs et al the market is being interfered with. Holden's demise started when they switched sourcing cars from Opel to ****boxes from Daewoo to save cents in the dollar - that was the start of the end, because they had nothing worth buying aside from the Commodore. When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip. |
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11-12-2023, 10:29 PM | #16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6858037]I'm not disagreeing with you about the ZB 'Commodore', I'm pointing out the reason why those particular cars are popular is because of Australian tax payers subsidising Thailand's manufacturing industry - those favorable tax concessions date back further than 10 years also.
My point about EVs is that the moment something else scores exemptions from taxes people will flock to those vehicles too, it doesn't matter if its Thailand Specials/EVs/SUVs et al the market is being interfered with. Holden's demise started when they switched sourcing cars from Opel to ****boxes from Daewoo to save cents in the dollar - that was the start of the end, because they had nothing worth buying aside from the Commodore. When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip.[/QUOTE Crsptiva s on the Gc yes today |
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11-12-2023, 11:05 PM | #17 | ||
praek tih kl jo kr
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atwell W.A.
Posts: 1,686
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Unfortunately I see them nearly every week, don't worry though I am doing my best to make sure they are written off with some creative quoting, even if its only 1 at a time
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11-12-2023, 11:09 PM | #18 | |||
Thailand Specials
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I had one just outside of warranty roll into my workshop that shat it's instrument cluster, I couldn't believe it, that's usually reserved for a 25 year old car doing the old dry solder joints trick. They're the only things worse on the roads than Jeeps I reckon, how can you build a car THAT badly in this day and age |
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12-12-2023, 01:02 AM | #19 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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And as much as everyone says "I only buy Aussie", no one would be willing to pay $70k for an SS or $100k for a base HSV, because that's what it would likely take to produce a profitable vehicle without government concessions, tax breaks and substantial tax payer aid. And all this was before our current climate of exponentially increased wages, cost of goods and utilities. Ford and Holden always had one foot out the door for decades. On top of that, both vehicles were 10 years old as a design, required at least a $1b investment to upgrade the platform and engines... I take it no one really noticed that the closure of the factories coincided with the move to the next level of emissions requirements, that the current cars couldn't meet. Only, in the end, to run a factories at less than 1/3 capacity making cars the majority of the public didn't want anymore. |
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12-12-2023, 07:00 AM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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12-12-2023, 07:58 AM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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And if the Falcodore was still being produced, what would it have been today in the woke world of Just Stop Oil, and Chinese EVs, which are both saving the planet from ICE vehicles. (sarcasm) No, they were both doomed, as the buying public have been told that Falcodores are not what is needed. What we really need as a family car is 2.7 tonne, 7 seater EV costing $100K. (sarcasm again) Now GM is returning (?) to Australia with EV Cadillacs that will cost more than $100K, and Ford reportedly have cut $7K from the cost of a Mustang Mach E. There is something just not right about all of this, or are Australians as gullible and dumb as seen by GMFord. |
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12-12-2023, 08:13 AM | #22 | |||
DIY Tragic
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12-12-2023, 08:42 AM | #23 | ||
Cabover nut
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If this song doesn't make one tear up, you're Un-Australian.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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12-12-2023, 11:10 AM | #24 | ||
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Agreed, the old '10 years' is a myth:
Under the Australian Consumer Law, certain consumer guarantees apply automatically, including that manufacturers will make repair facilities and spare parts available for a reasonable amount of time. Manufacturers guarantee to take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities - a place that can fix the consumer’s products - for a reasonable time after purchase. If the manufacturer does not have an office in Australia, the importer takes on these responsibilities. How much time is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the circumstances and the type of products. For instance it: would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for a number of years after its purchase may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all. A manufacturer does not have to meet the guarantee on repairs and spare parts if they advised the consumer in writing, at or before the time of purchase, that repair facilities and spare parts would not be available, or would not be available after a specified time. From https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cons...ot-be-repaired
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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12-12-2023, 02:13 PM | #25 | |||
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Must be all the shift workers who own them as I see them in the wee hours of early morning. |
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12-12-2023, 05:46 PM | #26 | ||||
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I always supported government co-investment, it kept people in jobs and allowed us to buy the cars we fell in love with. But the Americans expecting an outside source to fund the development of a product they ultimately made money from is quite the concept. Very shrewd. And when those products made money, that money went back to the USA. When they didn't make money, well that gave them a tax benefit. Again, very shrewd.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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12-12-2023, 07:57 PM | #27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Sort of related, and with respect to the spare parts - earlier in the year I walked into Gardener's in Perth and to my great delight discovered the Aussie Holden flame was still alive there. I test drove a VF wagon and was even more impressed with what they'd achieved. Yes, even the 6 cylinder one.
I've since found that dottered around the country are dealers who still have the Holden signage up, and dealers that do the last Commodores as a theme within their stocklists. Now about the manufacturing, the other thing I've learned from the Button plan and it's final play out, is that if we want to be a first world country that value-adds, we the people are going to have to do it on our own, in spite of policy and with the costs stacked up against us. I used covid to set up my own productive capacity. I look forward to seeing Australia have automakers once more but it probably won't occur until after the next Pacific conflict when they re-realise the importance of having sovereign production.
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I6 + AWD |
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12-12-2023, 08:01 PM | #28 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Location: Centrefold Lounge
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Think about things like free rego for the first three years, no GST, LCT et al - incentivise the buyer not the manufacturer. Worked wonders with Thailand Specials |
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13-12-2023, 05:39 PM | #29 | |||
Cabover nut
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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13-12-2023, 05:52 PM | #30 | ||
Barra Turbo > V8
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Couldnt agree more Lieschke Motors have always had late model Holden/HSV cars to this day, havnt really seen many if any junk euro 'Commodores' there.
FWIW, id own a VF SSV Redline with a 6sp manual, along with many other commodores. I love my Falcons theres no doubt, but without Commodore, theres no Falcon and vice versa and its been shown here really. We've lost a lot!
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