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The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
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#1 | ||
HUGH JARSE
![]() Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,515
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A court of law has found BRS to be a murderer
Journalists can print this statement because a judge said it is the substantial truth or contextual truth The law is indeed an *** What hope is there now of a fair criminal trial? It would be virtually impossible for the jurors to find BRS “not guilty.” This case should have been held over once guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Bastards! |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,374
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He started the civil case in the first place. We don't even know if there will be a criminal case but apparently intends to appeal this decision.
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#3 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,029
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Standard of proof is lower in civil cases right?
I wonder if this would effect a criminal trial if one was to happen, when I was in court, a father was trying to get an intervention order against his ex wife's new partner who was diddling his children, The magistrate threw it out because they were going through family court for another issue, for two reasons A) Unusual to hear evidence from children in magistrates court B) If magistrate makes a finding on the intervention order, it could effect the outcome of the family court decision. Makes me wonder if BRS and his civil case findings is going to do him in on a criminal trial? |
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 885
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During the last week, the 'powers that be' have expressed alarm and concern regarding the churn / turn-over / retention / recruiting rates for the ADF.
I wonder why that would be so ? Join up, be sent to do a job, and when it is over ....... thanks for coming, see ya, just don't call us, we don't want to know. |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,374
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The standard in civil cases is 'balance of probabilities' where as criminal is 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. As I understand it in this case the standard was in the middle called Briginshaw.
What I don't understand is how can you accuse a person of a crime but that not be the standard? As I have said before this whole handling of the Brereton report has been a cluster**** and CDF and the whole chain of command should be first in line to be stripped if not outright fired. Let's also not forget the politicians and their hand either. |
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#6 | ||
HUGH JARSE
![]() Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,515
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Check out The 7:30 Report for today.
The journalist said a couple of times that BRS was a murderer, a war criminal and a liar. This is substantially true - the judge said so. |
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#7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,782
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Quote:
The Australian Special Forces members evidence on this was corroborated by Afgan civilians. This evidence was given, tested under cross examination, and found credible by the court. Nothing in this-no black magic. Problem is for a criminal case, it will apply the noted beyond reasonable doubt and not the civil on balance of probabilities standard as applied in this defamation action. Briginshaw not applicable to this case as it was a civil defamation matter- was not some "offence" or regulation breach that was not criminal. Also in a criminal case, likely to be a Jury Trial, and that may make it harder to secure a conviction against a "war hero". Any criminal case- all evidence needs to be adduced again fresh, the evidence given in the defamation case could be used during cross examination on credibility issues. The end result in this defamation case was expected my end. What does surprise me is when I heard of the nature of the SAS Australian members evidence against BRS before the defamation hearing, I said to my wife what the hell is BRS doing suing the publications for defamation, he is exposing himself to later criminal war crime prosecutions. He is insane. I suppose BRS has the Prince Andrew syndrome, arrogant, entitled and self deluded and (even though he is intelligent according to my daughter who observed his evidence in person in court) he most certainly is unwise.
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Ford Rides: Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender Last edited by asagaai; 02-06-2023 at 12:05 AM. |
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#8 | ||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,111
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The media, unfortunately, will be forever allowed to act the way they are, selectively publishing their idea of justice. Bias needs to be policed and punished.
Personally I think every journalist even under suspicion of bias needs to be rounded up and exported to the warzones and voluntold to take part in minesweeping missions.
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I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel! |
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#9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,692
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Quote:
The theatre of war is a **** place and **** things happen
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I reserve the right to arm bears
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,075
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Quote:
ABC has gone to the dogs.
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jaydee351 4DV8 |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,352
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,075
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Or cats, what ever they want to identify as.
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jaydee351 4DV8 |
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#13 | ||
T3/Sprint8
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,350
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basket case of a so called channel and funded by us ffs are we surprised today.
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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#14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 885
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I don't understand the 'could be guilty' result of a defamation case, as opposed to a 'definitely guilty' result in a criminal case. Like being a half full / half empty glass.
BRS is done and dusted in the public view, regardless of any 'real' war crimes trial finding. It seems that there is more to this whole ****fight than is being told. US forces are not allowed to operate with allied forces which 'condone' war crimes, therefore putting the ADF in a difficult position. How do they determine that without a conviction at The Hague ? Is there some sort of defence / political blackmail being used, with selected persons being scapegoats ? And the USA, in general, in not exactly squeaky clean on this subject. Seems OK to kill civilians in a missile raid, but not up close and personal. What a ****ing mess. |
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#15 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 45
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So if a foreign fighter commits war crimes against our troops, that's ok?
If any of our troops are suspected of committing war crimes, they should be appropriately investigated and tried in a court of law. War crimes are not just things that happen. We are better than that. |
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#16 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
War is cruel. No one knows what they are capable of under the same circumstances. I couldn't imagine fighting in a war zone. The split second decision you'd have to take to either defend yourself or colleagues is in no way a sign they went in there with intent to kill innocent people. If they did well justice needs to be served.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#17 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,540
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#18 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,540
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Quote:
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,782
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This poses a moral and legal dilemma.
Yesterday evening, Friday red wine after working week, watching sunset with wife, I threw out a scenario, after both agreeing that if we were in military killing civilians would be a no go zone- whatsoever - which BRS appears to have crossed. However- what about enemy combatants- despite Geneva convention etc. Said to her- imagine you were a soldier, your country was invaded, your children butchered, and your partner raped and killed by the invaders. Imagine you were in the army and captured 2 enemy combatants in the heat of battle- what would you do. She responded she would not kill them on the basis that they were not the proven perpetrators who killed the children/partner. From my end- heat of battle- say 2 combatants in a dugout making some sign of surrender- in the heat and anger- what would I do- expose myself to the dangers of their surrender or just toss a frag in there to dull the pain of my loss. Who knows until we are in that position. But in all this -it is healthy that Australian Special Forces have stood up and given the truth about that cliff civilian and BRS. Rather that than cover up.
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Ford Rides: Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,046
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Quote:
I find the idea that there are legalities on how you treat combatants amusing, yet we never even look at whether the invading country was justified to begin with. |
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,296
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On the surface it looks like a Seven network vs Nine/Fairfax legal battle.
Biased reporting of the case is evident from both sides. |
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Taromeo
Posts: 10,452
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I'm a bit confused about the whole thing.
If, according to this judge going on the word of mainly un-named people given special privileges, Ben is guilty of murdering a combatant, how did he ever receive a VC? It's my understanding that anyone put forward as a possible recipient is gone through with a fine tooth comb. |
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
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I am now seeing that there are calls for him to be stripped of his medals.
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2022 Honda HRV e:HEV in Premium crystal red. |
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#24 | ||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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Some countries are such sooks
A member of a foreign army that invades your country in yet another illegal war and ruthlessly goes about murdering your family and then a guy gets a VC....what is their problem? It takes a special kind of person to volunteer to go offshore to start a war for no apparent threat to Australia Only bloke we know now has 2 rental properties after 3 tours...win...win...win Looks like BRS is in trouble now...no longer employed by Kerry Stokes, so i guess the legal funds will dry up.
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#25 | |||
I use brain. Not hip.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Qld
Posts: 1,400
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#26 | ||
HUGH JARSE
![]() Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,515
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From an article in today's Australian
It’s a measure of the gulf between the two sides that each felt aggrieved by Justice Besanko’s grant of immunity certificates to several soldiers who otherwise might not have given evidence, for fear of implicating themselves in war crimes. The newspaper’s lawyers were angry that a key witness, Person 4, got a certificate that allowed him to testify about what he saw in the village of Darwan – Roberts-Smith kicking Ali Jan off the cliff – but not about his own alleged role in committing a murder at Whiskey 108 alongside Roberts-Smith. Roberts-Smith’s lawyers were angry because Person 4 had managed, in their words, “to do a deal with Nine” so he didn’t have to give evidence about his own war crimes but was allowed to give evidence about those alleged against their client. |
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#27 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,540
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Quote:
Give it a rest, you are now grasping at straws, the verdict is in. BRS has the option of appeal. |
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#28 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
![]() Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 22,938
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This is interesting: https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...02-p5d4ww.html
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regards Blue |
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#29 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,540
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Quote:
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#30 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
![]() Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 22,938
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Quote:
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regards Blue |
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