G6E-T and G8E.

[Falc'man]

Consider a few of many facts about the G6ET.

- Currently, the G6ET is a success for Ford, more than what the Ghia ever was with the a V8, which is what it replaced. (Although the Barra 230 was very capable, it seemed and looked underdone compared to the competitor's V8. In reality it's a great unit but sales wise, it wasn't)

- The G6ET is arguably quicker than all V8 powered models currently offered in the HSV and FPV range.

- And being so efficient it manages to return very respectable fuel consumption figures. This also helps Ford "look" as if they want to stop Earth from drowning.




Now consider the following.

Ford will soon have a lightweight cracker of a V8 (that didn't start off as being designed for an F-series truck) that will be offered in the following model, for obvious reasons, named a G8E.

If the G8E had the following:

- A 280kW and 500Nm 5 litre V-8, which still makes it tad slower than the G6E-T.

- For argument's sake, had the same fuel economy as the G6E-T.

- Obviously, what sounds better is purely subjective, but consider the aural pleasure anyway.

- An upper-luxury feel of a sophistimicated, high tech, all-alloy, quadcam, light, efficient, advanced, powerful V8.

- Please assume Ford market it well.. don't laugh.






So the poll questions are...
In your opinion...
How well would a G8E sell beside the G6E-T, and will it eat from the turbo 6's sales?
Considering the Turbo 6 was a partial reason for lack Ford V8 sales, can Ford still crack into Holden's lower V8 market stranglehold with this NEW V8?
Why could/would it fail?

[FPV GTHO]

I think its inevitable it'll eat into G6E Turbo sales. I cant imagine it would only steal Calais V8 sales.

I think though a multi model V8 strategy is a must if Ford want to be taken seriously with this new V8 though. No more of this XR8 only business. Get it back in the luxury Falcons and the utes. I'm not sure about an XT V8 as i'm not sure on the future of the XT in general if it keeps selling in the single digit percentages.

[dandandandan]

To be honest, I don't think it'd touch the G6ET sales. Especially if it's only benefit over the 6T is the engine note. The Calais would lose out for sure seeing as the VE shape is waaaaaaaaay out of date already.

People would still look to the 6T before the 8 in this age and financial climate.

[SpoolMan]

G6ET v G8E a doubt you will see a lot of change in sales, although I think the case will be different for higher spec FPV Models.

[Polyal]

Oh god not another potential v8 vs I6 debate.

It will naturally take some sales, but a very small percentage. There are people out there who just want a V8 for whatever reason. I dont think it will sell in great numbers but if the engine is to be in other falcons then there should be a G8E.

[Wretched]

I don't think there will be too much difference in sales.
Though I would think it would eat into the GT-E and F6-E sales.
Similar car for a lot less coin.

[gcg2503]

Put me down for the G8E over the G6ET any day of the week

Speed isnt everything but the looks of the G6ET with a V8 donk ticks ALL the boxes for me

Ford, please build me one!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Yep it would eat G6E T sales for sure, with 290 kw opposed to the Calais V 260 kw now with AFM it would be a promising package! Specially considering the age of the guys buying most G6E's, late 40's early 50's most have grown up with V8's and dont really care about quarter mile passes.

If Ford had the G8E when i bought my GT I would have probably bought one! I like the G6E T but just not a huge Turbo fan!

[flappist]

A G8E will probably do as well as the BA/BF Ghia V8. It is really only the "performance" enthusiasts who are buying traditional V8s and they mostly want "performance" looking vehicles like XR8, GS & GT.

I suspect the G6ET has been successful because it is NOT a V8.

[old_mate]

Only reason I would ever consider a Ford V8 at the moment is the noise. But, with living in Queensland, the cost of rego now up here, plus the continual scamming from the fuel companies now the subsidy is gone, i think i'd always pick the six. Unless, of course, Coyote is something very special, then maybe it might be different.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by flappist

I suspect the G6ET has been successful because it is NOT a V8.

I have to disagree. I think it's the fact it is a very good car with a ripper of an engine is why it is successful.
Plenty of V8 Calais Vs out there so a G8E would sell well too.

But to answer the poll question, yes I would think a G8E would eat into the G6ET sales and probably the GT-E like mentioned. No reason not to have one though. It would take some Calais sales too.

Cant argue with Flappist's logic though, most V8 buyers are after performance so as long as there is a luxury pack available for the XR8 it may make a G8E superfluous.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

A G8E will probably do as well as the BA/BF Ghia V8. It is really only the "performance" enthusiasts who are buying traditional V8s and they mostly want "performance" looking vehicles like XR8, GS & GT.

I suspect the G6ET has been successful because it is NOT a V8.

Its a hard one to guage with Holdens V8 sales doing well, and I am not sure or cant explain it. Are they much cheaper than the Ford equivalent or is it that because Ford simply dont offer it people are going to the darkside? Maybe a mix of both.

Also agree that the 6 is alot easier to sell for the family man aswell, but this time around its got pace.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its a hard one to guage with Holdens V8 sales doing well, and I am not sure or cant explain it. Are they much cheaper than the Ford equivalent or is it that because Ford simply dont offer it people are going to the darkside? Maybe a mix of both.

Also agree that the 6 is alot easier to sell for the family man aswell, but this time around its got pace.

Holden does not have a "performance" option other than the V8. They also only offer one V8 across the range rather than 2 like the B series. Despite this the SS/SS-V outsell the calais by a huge margin.

The "V8 enthusiast" group are always emotional about this, they want a V8 because it is a V8, no other reason.

There are various excuses/reasons given why no V8 falcon other than the XR8 has been successful over the last 7 years but the reality really is that almost all V8 buyers want to "show off" their cars.

The best example of this is GT-E vs GT-P.

Price: about the same
Performance: about the same
Bling: GT-P has stripes, decals, big wing etc .....GT-E is far more conservative

Sales: GT-P sells many times more that GT-E

[BrisVegas]

Not that I'm in the market to buy either, but I think a G8E makes perfect sense. The G6ET has opened peoples eyes to what ford can offer. ie. a stylish, comfortable and smile-inducingly-rapid sedan. There are plenty of people who want that style of car with a high-tec V8 rumble I'd reckon. If you've gotta buy a car under $55k or whatever the FBT limit is these days and you want a V8, then a Calais is about the only choice. Ford should get amongst that market.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

A G8E will probably do as well as the BA/BF Ghia V8. It is really only the "performance" enthusiasts who are buying traditional V8s and they mostly want "performance" looking vehicles like XR8, GS & GT.

I suspect the G6ET has been successful because it is NOT a V8.

Hmm have a look at the sales split on Calais / Statesman / Caprice V6 / V8.. Obviously they dont have a Turbo offering but still theres some silly figure like 40 / 60 with 60% being V8's...

Now look at Fords Split between G6E and G6ET.. Its probably closer to 60 / 40 the other way around.. Why is this??

Fairmont Ghia V8s were always lacking in the figures department, but a Boss 290 Equiped G8E wouldnt!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Holden does not have a "performance" option other than the V8. They also only offer one V8 across the range rather than 2 like the B series. Despite this the SS/SS-V outsell the calais by a huge margin.

The "V8 enthusiast" group are always emotional about this, they want a V8 because it is a V8, no other reason.

There are various excuses/reasons given why no V8 falcon other than the XR8 has been successful over the last 7 years but the reality really is that almost all V8 buyers want to "show off" their cars.

The best example of this is GT-E vs GT-P.

Price: about the same
Performance: about the same
Bling: GT-P has stripes, decals, big wing etc .....GT-E is far more conservative

Sales: GT-P sells many times more that GT-E

Where are you getting your sales data from??

GT-P and GT-E both have very low sales figures.. FPV build f-all of either and they are now really a build to order car only.. Im suprised FPV even bother with the GT-P as they probably only sell 15 to every 100 GT's, not like the old Days when the GT-P had all the fruit!

[Wally]

Not everyone buys a car for peak hp figures and gloss. I have stayed with V8s as my daily drive because I like the handling that comes with them. The suspension, the braking, driveline, etc are usually better. A lazy car for the lazy driver.

Would a G8E syphon sales from the G6E-T, probably, because although the turbo might be more spirited it just doesn't have the pedigree and presence. Peak power and acceleration rites pale against four barking tail pipes sticking out under the rear bar.

[RedHotGT]

Why can't we go back to the good old days of just optioning the vehicles....??

There are way too many cars available now, I mean, think about this for a minute:
Current FG Range... (includes FPV)
XT, G6, G6E, G6ET, XR6, XR6T, XR8, GT, GT-P, GT-E, F6 - thats 11 vehicles... (just sedans)...

Why couldn't we have 3 stages of vehicles.... Entry Level, Luxury Level, Performance Level....
Then you could just option the way you wanted.... just like the good ol' days...

At the end of the day - isn't it about TOTAL vehicle sales.... and not individual products?? who cares if ford can sell 50 of this and 100 of that.... If they're not selling 2000 total vehicles a month then they're closing their doors??!?

And how fantastic would it be in 30-40 years time when someone pulls the cover back on a base model FG XT falcon only to find a BossV8 lurking under the bonnet of what they thought was grandpa's "taxi"....

Those were the good ol' days....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Where are you getting your sales data from??

GT-P and GT-E both have very low sales figures.. FPV build f-all of either and they are now really a build to order car only.. Im suprised FPV even bother with the GT-P as they probably only sell 15 to every 100 GT's, not like the old Days when the GT-P had all the fruit!

From FPV via dealer.

As I stated above, it is all very emotional as can be clearly seen by many of the replies.

15 to 100 is a huge amount more than 2 to 100 or whatever.

The comparison of GT to GT-P is totally invalid as GT is significantly cheaper that GT-P.

The only way that it would get close would be to compare GT with all the goodies including the brembo upgrade to GT-P and I cannot remember the last time I saw or even heard of a new GT with all the goodies. They are not common at all.

But getting back to the original question which is "Will a G8E sell at all and if so will it just take from the G6ET".

My personal opinion is that if faced with the choice and the buyer is not a "V8 enthusiast" then they will most likely choose the T6.
If they are a "V8 enthusiast" they will more likely buy an XR8 so the G8E market is really made up of those who want a luxury car with a level of performance that is not as high as FPV and want a V8 rather than a T6 despite it having lower performance, higher rego costs and possibly higher fuel usage (if not actual then perceived).

And seriously can anyone on here truthfully say they bought a BA/BF/FG V8 Falcon/FPV for reasons OTHER than "I WANTED A V8" and who actually bought a NEW BA/BF 3V BOSS powered vehicle?

Not very many I suspect....

[phillyc]

I've been banging on for a while that there should be a G8E because I reckon it will then give Ford two distinct performance luxury offerings and the potential to swipe some Calais V V8 sales to Ford.

There is a real opportunity to hit GMH hard with this 'new' engine and effectively re-launch the Ford V8. Better performance, better economy, improved refinement. Perhaps using the name Coyote rather than continue with the Boss nomenclature might be good to reset the GMH Bogan opinion too.

280kW/500Nm
5.5s 0-100
Sub13L/100km.

PS I'm looking forward to the 40kg weight reduction too.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I've been banging on for a while that there should be a G8E because I reckon it will then give Ford two distinct performance luxury offerings and the potential to swipe some Calais V V8 sales to Ford.

There is a real opportunity to hit GMH hard with this 'new' engine and effectively re-launch the Ford V8. Better performance, better economy, improved refinement. Perhaps using the name Coyote rather than continue with the Boss nomenclature might be good to reset the GMH Bogan opinion too.

280kW/500Nm
5.5s 0-100
Sub13L/100km.

PS I'm looking forward to the 40kg weight reduction too.

They wont get sub 13l per 100km though!

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Now consider the following.

Ford will soon have a lightweight cracker of a V8 (that didn't start off as being designed for an F-series truck) that will be offered in the following model, for obvious reasons, named a G8E.

Actually, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Coyote will be standard on the F150, it will be optional on the Mustang. I'm sure it was designed from the start to coexist on both, but it is designed for the F150. Having said that, I know it will be very suitable as a performance car engine.

[R-Design]

As Falc’man has mentioned there’s no point in considering this proposition based on the current Boss V8’s performance. Whether you like it or not the 5.4 V8 has been perceived as the I6T’s poorer brother (especially in 3V form) resulting in it’s less than stellar sales.

On whether a G8E would steal sales from the G6ET that would depend on how it’s priced and positioned in the market. If priced at the same level with identical specification, it would obviously be cross-shopped leading to a decrease in sales for the I6T. If Ford decided to sell it at a premium with more ‘fruit’ they’d enter Statesman/Caprice country and have access to a market they gave up when they stopped building the Fairlane/LTD. As mentioned earlier this would have an effect on GT-E sales, but as they’re sold in such small numbers the benefits probably outweigh the risks.

Would a G8E take sales from the Calais (V) V8, you’d bloody hope so! Having said this, as always to pull sales from the Holden faithful, you’d need a product that outshone the competition on all counts (marketing, performance, price, economy, reliability, bragging rights, interior and exterior aesthetics, etc). Ford needs to leave no stone unturned as the market won’t give it any second chances. If one in four Commodores is a V8 it’s a huge market for Ford to capture, and well worth the effort. Let’s hope they’re up to it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

My personal opinion is that if faced with the choice and the buyer is not a "V8 enthusiast" then they will most likely choose the T6.
If they are a "V8 enthusiast" they will more likely buy an XR8 so the G8E market is really made up of those who want a luxury car with a level of performance that is not as high as FPV and want a V8 rather than a T6 despite it having lower performance, higher rego costs and possibly higher fuel usage (if not actual then perceived).

And seriously can anyone on here truthfully say they bought a BA/BF/FG V8 Falcon/FPV for reasons OTHER than "I WANTED A V8" and who actually bought a NEW BA/BF 3V BOSS powered vehicle?

Not very many I suspect....

If thats the case why dont all the G6ET buyers buy XR6 Turbos???? Exactly they don't..

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Boss315

Would a G8E take sales from the Calais (V) V8, you’d bloody hope so! Having said this, as always to pull sales from the Holden faithful, you’d need a product that outshone the competition on all counts (marketing, performance, price, economy, reliability, bragging rights, interior and exterior aesthetics, etc). Ford needs to leave no stone unturned as the market won’t give it any second chances. If one in four Commodores is a V8 it’s a huge market for Ford to capture, and well worth the effort. Let’s hope they’re up to it.

Ask yourself this in that case...
What could 'The General' bring out that would make you swap brands...
????

[flappist]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

If thats the case why dont all the G6ET buyers buy XR6 Turbos???? Exactly they don't..

Ummm, because they want a luxury car with a bit more power????

High powered G6ETs are popular, high powered Fairmont Ghia V8s were not.

Why?

Honestly, trying to explain to a V8 enthusiast that not everyone thinks that the V8 is the ultimate engine is like trying to explain evolution to a Jehovas Witness......

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Honestly, trying to explain to a V8 enthusiast that not everyone thinks that the V8 is the ultimate engine is like trying to explain evolution to a Jehovas Witness......

*off topic*
If Evolution is correct.... why do we still have Apes/Monkeys???

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ummm, because they want a luxury car with a bit more power????

High powered G6ETs are popular, high powered Fairmont Ghia V8s were not.

Why?

Honestly, trying to explain to a V8 enthusiast that not everyone thinks that the V8 is the ultimate engine is like trying to explain evolution to a Jehovas Witness......

You cannot seriously compare Fairmont Ghia V8 to a G8E even powered with a Boss 290..

The Fairmont Ghia was always under powered and seriously lacked the visual asthetics of the G series car.... Fairmont Ghia was always seen as an oldmans car, a G8E on the other hand just like G6E T wouldnt have that old man perception about it.. Just like the Calais V doesnt seem to with many younger buyers getting them.

Im not saying the V8 is the ultimate engine, im just saying it would be nice to have the option of it.. Infact I believe a G8E would sell BETTER then G6ET, just like the GT sells better then F6..

But then again thats another story for another day.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by loftie

Ask yourself this in that case...
What could 'The General' bring out that would make you swap brands...
????

I see your point, but I'm sure there are a lot of former 'Ford Guys' driving around in V8 Commodores. They just need the right product to get back on board.

I remember a time when the Falcon was the best selling car in the country (yes I have a very long memory).

[chevypower]

How about when the engine gets released - drive both, buy the one that puts a bigger smile on your face, and not try to convince the world how yours is the only opinion that really matters and everyone else is wrong. Just an idea. By the way I am not talking to anyone in particular, I just sense a fight is about to break out and I am just doing my bit to keep this on topic.