How accurate are Hw/P radar

XRQTOR · 20-08-2005, 04:56 PM

Got knocked off for speeding the sarvo, no point bitiching as i know i was and i do it all the time. But how accurate are these in car unit's, the highway car that got me had the unit mounted on the dash at the bottom of the A pillar. He got me doing **k's over, i know i was going **k's quicker than that, by the time i spotted him on the sweeper i was on him and kept driving. Ofcourse i wasn't going to argue the point in case he gave me the real ticket but i want to know just how accurate these units are.

It was coming round a left hand sweeper (for me) and he was in a line of traffic of about 5 cars (all relatively close), i dont think he would have had a clean lock to get my speed. In the same location i have been warned about speeding as the copper couldn't get a lock because by the time he spotted me and the time it locked i had past him.

For once the copper wasn't a ***** or a smart **** or even give me about my car. He drove past my house and had to back up and pull in the driveway, well half way anyway.

Citric GT · 20-08-2005, 05:02 PM

A cop once told me that they were accurate to within 2km/h.

RED_EL_XR8 · 20-08-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

A cop once told me that they were accurate to within 2km/h.

When used correctly!

Casper · 20-08-2005, 05:05 PM

Get a RAAF radar expert to be en expert witness and it will be thrown out of court. Many years ago there was one based at Point Cook here that used to do it as a side job. Got to a point where as soon as he turned up the police would just drop the case as they knew they were going to lose.

:

XRQTOR · 20-08-2005, 05:12 PM

I was under the understanding they need ed a clean 2 sec lock to get a correct speed.

Where do i get a RAAF radar tech from casper.

Panda · 20-08-2005, 05:14 PM

Did you ask him what type of radar he was using? Were you beside a car travelling in the same direction? Did you admit to speeding?

The normal error for mobile devices is 10%. Fixed devices (speed cameras etc) are more like 5%.

Panda

XRQTOR · 20-08-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda

Did you ask him what type of radar he was using? Were you beside a car travelling in the same direction? Did you admit to speeding?

The normal error for mobile devices is 10%. Fixed devices (speed cameras etc) are more like 5%.

Panda

Single lane both ways. The unit is one i haven't seen before, small hexagon tube at the base of the A pillar on the driver's side of the dash.

He asked if there was a need to be speeding and i just smiled........ Normally they ask how fast you were going but he didn't, best runin i've had with a copper so far even if i did get a ticket.

**Bluehoon** · 20-08-2005, 05:49 PM

They are accurate to 10%.
Uncle mate is a highway copper in Coffs Harbour.

One day, we did a test, i drove 120 round a corner. They passed me, in 1 sec, radar picked up 118km p/hr.

If you sit there, admit to it, and don't do the BS riot act, they usually mark it to a lower bracket.

If its less that the actual speed you were doing. Cop it on the chin, and be glad you didn't get the full fine.

It're more effort to fight anf risk losing then to just cop a 75 buck fine, if that is what it was.....

After all, you were breaking the law...

XRQTOR · 20-08-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filthy_monkey

They are accurate to 10%.
Uncle mate is a highway copper in Coffs Harbour.

One day, we did a test, i drove 120 round a corner. They passed me, in 1 sec, radar picked up 118km p/hr.

If you sit there, admit to it, and don't do the BS riot act, they usually mark it to a lower bracket.

If its less that the actual speed you were doing. Cop it on the chin, and be glad you didn't get the full fine.

It're more effort to fight anf risk losing then to just cop a 75 buck fine, if that is what it was.....

After all, you were breaking the law...

I kept my mouth shut and copped it seeing as i know i was going faster. $225 and 3 points, only just scraped into that bracket to thankfully.

GT 8888 · 20-08-2005, 05:52 PM

leigh

your PM box is full

Citric GT · 20-08-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filthy_monkey

.

If you sit there, admit to it, and don't do the BS riot act, they usually mark it to a lower bracket.

If its less that the actual speed you were doing. Cop it on the chin, and be glad you didn't get the full fine.

It're more effort to fight anf risk losing then to just cop a 75 buck fine, if that is what it was.....

After all, you were breaking the law...

Thats true.

I got out of a fine by admitting I was in the wrong and apologising.

XRQTOR · 20-08-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8888

leigh

your PM box is full

It is now, i got the first 1 you sent but you sent it another 3 times and filled it up.

Casper · 20-08-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Where do i get a RAAF radar tech from casper.

No idea

Citric GT · 20-08-2005, 06:18 PM

Go for a drive out to Richmond RAAF base and ask for one...

flappist · 20-08-2005, 07:36 PM

Forget the expert witness tactic. The state governments have too much to lose by allowing a lot of precedences to be created. Radar is now an important revinue source and removal of such income will cause GREAT PAIN.
They will do everything they can to protect income, why do you think cigarettes have not been banned outright? Freedom of choice? Yeh right!

They will now fight you until hell freezes over and bring in a squillion of their own expert witnesses at $lots each, all of which YOU will have to pay (i.e. costs) when you lose.
This is SOP up here is sunny QLD.

How accurate are they? If, as redelxr8 states, they are used correctly VERY BLOODY ACCURATE.
The radar reads the cosine of velocity. If you are at 0 degrees (in line), cos(0) = 1, so therefore it is your speed. If you are 30 degrees of line then, cos(30) = 0.866, it will think you are doing 100 when you are actually doing 115. It always reads low.
(For our physics and maths gurus out there, this is a simple snapshot explanation, I know it is more complex with 2 moving objects)

I own my own KR10 mobile radar and have played with it in the F6 along with my NAVMAN car GPS and Skyblazer aviation GPS.
They all agree exactly (but all read about 3km/h lower than the speedo).
I have checked my skyblazer against Sydney approach and Amberley radars and on both occasions they agreed with me. (this was at about 400km/h)

MO · 20-08-2005, 11:43 PM

All depends on the angles...the greater the angle the slower the reading!

ltd · 21-08-2005, 10:29 AM

Got a mate who was up until may a cop at Auburn. He said the radar and lidar are easy to disprove in court, as you can question when it was last calibrated, question where he was pointing it, argue that there was an obstruction or that something went past it like a bird which interrupted the beam, and apparently it's your word against his. Sounds stupid but that's why they tend not to use mobile radar in rain etc. My mate was booked in Sydney and had the whole thing thrown out because he asked these questions. They even had that video surveillance crap in their car and they played it to the court, and he argued that you could not see the bird in the video and as a result, they couldn't prove that he was lying.

Also, I don't know how much truth there is in this but apparently if you let the matter go to court and are found guilty of the charge; you don't lose the points in NSW because you aren't paying the fine to the Infringement Processing Bureau, your paying the fine to the court. This means at the IFB they cannot complete the fine/points transaction on their computer as it is not in direct receipt by the IFB. Has anyone else heard of this?

Another one that a guy from Heggies Bulk Haul told me is that when truckers lose their licence they pay the fine, but add about 20 dollars to it. Before they can balance the account at the IFB they have to give this 20 dollars back, so they send you a cheque. They never banked it, and they would just claim they never got it when the IFB would ring, so the IFB would send another. Thing is the account does not balance and therefore cannot be closed on their computers, so they cannot deduct the points. One of their drivers apparently did this for 2 years until his points were restored from a previous offence.

I got pulled over by a Goulburn highway patrol 2 weeks ago for 118 in a 110 zone, and this guy was a total dick. What's worse, he was driving a really nice BA2 XR8. Word on the force is that Goulburn Highway patrol are the worst in NSW. Most police reckon these guys would book their own mothers.

I could contest the matter, but honestly who has a day to sit around in court waiting for the matter to be heard for the sake of 75 bucks. I think I'll just send them $100.

megsy · 21-08-2005, 10:44 AM

well all know that some of the locals can be pricks, i got done for doing 57 in a 40 zone the other day, well fair enough, the problem was he was sitting on a bend and locking on to me 20m after the 40 sign which is actually obscured until your right on it.

i no longer go that way to work.

21-08-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Got a mate who was up until may a cop at Auburn. He said the radar and lidar are easy to disprove in court, as you can question when it was last calibrated, question where he was pointing it, argue that there was an obstruction or that something went past it like a bird which interrupted the beam, and apparently it's your word against his. Sounds stupid but that's why they tend not to use mobile radar in rain etc. My mate was booked in Sydney and had the whole thing thrown out because he asked these questions. They even had that video surveillance crap in their car and they played it to the court, and he argued that you could not see the bird in the video and as a result, they couldn't prove that he was lying.

Been there done that. It doesn't work. They have lied and will lie. The courts cannot possible let any of that slip and set an exampl for future cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Also, I don't know how much truth there is in this but apparently if you let the matter go to court and are found guilty of the charge; you don't lose the points in NSW because you aren't paying the fine to the Infringement Processing Bureau, your paying the fine to the court. This means at the IFB they cannot complete the fine/points transaction on their computer as it is not in direct receipt by the IFB. Has anyone else heard of this?

Not true either. You loose the points and the court decides what you loose. They usually rule according to what the infringement was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Another one that a guy from Heggies Bulk Haul told me is that when truckers lose their licence they pay the fine, but add about 20 dollars to it. Before they can balance the account at the IFB they have to give this 20 dollars back, so they send you a cheque. They never banked it, and they would just claim they never got it when the IFB would ring, so the IFB would send another. Thing is the account does not balance and therefore cannot be closed on their computers, so they cannot deduct the points. One of their drivers apparently did this for 2 years until his points were restored from a previous offence.

lol sorry but wrong again. That issue was corrected some time ago so it doesn't work anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

I could contest the matter, but honestly who has a day to sit around in court waiting for the matter to be heard for the sake of 75 bucks. I think I'll just send them $100.

Contest it for sure. It won't cost you alot of time or money.

Dave_au · 21-08-2005, 12:48 PM

You know, have a serach and Im sure you will find the NSW HP Sops on FFAU.

XRQTOR · 21-08-2005, 01:22 PM

Goulbourne HW/P are also have a reputation of having some of the best driver's in sydney, dont mind playing shunt the runner either.

When i was on my P's i got booked for doing 15k's over, seeing as i have a S.A licence i should have lost it as when your on your P's down there 1ok's and over you lose it for 6 months. Couldn't over pay the fine with a credit card as you can only key in an exact amount nowdays, sent a company check off and they cleard it. Never lost my licence or heard back about it. Dont think i'll be constesting it in court but i'm willing to spend another $9 to see if it works again.

GT290 · 21-08-2005, 01:25 PM

Are incar radar detectors illegal in Victoria?

XRQTOR · 21-08-2005, 01:30 PM

Im pretty sure they are, it's 9 points and $15oo in sydney if your caught with one in the car. I wouldn't mind trying to source a radar jammer from the states, the new rader unit's apparently can detect the use of a radar detector. But a jammer would just scrammble the beam and not give a clean lock, should aslo be able to beat it in court seeing as it doesn't actually detect radar if ou ever get caught with it.

ltd · 21-08-2005, 01:45 PM

Ratt, maybe it worked for him because he knew some of the techno babble of radars being an ex copper. He reckons that he has a sure fire way to beat it. I since phoned him and he said you have to query a whole bunch of things like a refraction in the road distorts the radar, query certification of the radar in the morning; did they tune it with tuning forks that morning? Subpoena the actual radar. Argue that there was other traffic that they locked onto; that they mistakingly locked onto another vehicle and pulled you over etc.

He said when he was stationed with HW/P in Auburn on the M4 they used to be required in court at least once per fortnight, and as such reckons he witnessed dozens of cases being thrown out.

He also reckons career highway patrolmen are the worst police on the force, because all they give a rats **** about is fining people. According to him, most GD officers hate being partnered with HW/P.

He also reckons that all of the modified ricer cars are placed under greater scrutiny than stock domestic cars, as the hotted up ricers tend to attract alot more attention, and the HW/P pretty well know they have to have a good look at it to find defects. They are also (in Sydney anyway) over represented in traffic violations, and are preferred by a particular minority that is regularly associated with crime. (His words not mine).

Dave_au · 21-08-2005, 01:47 PM

I think the actual traffic act is fairly open ended in regards to detection equipment - I think it includes both detectors and equipment designed to disrupt radar.

Panda · 21-08-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

I got pulled over by a Goulburn highway patrol 2 weeks ago for 118 in a 110 zone...I could contest the matter, but honestly who has a day to sit around in court waiting for the matter to be heard for the sake of 75 bucks. I think I'll just send them $100.

Fight the bastards. You were less than 10% over the posted speed limit. Their instruments have an error of 10% so unless you 'fessed up to the cop, they can't 100% prove you were speeding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_au

You know, have a serach and Im sure you will find the NSW HP SOP's on FFAU

I've searched high and low, it is accessible but at a cost....a substantial cost. I forget exactly where the information was but it was something like Department of Public Records.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT290

Are incar radar detectors illegal in Victoria?

Yep, radar detectors are illegal in every state except Western Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRXTOR

...I wouldn't mind trying to source a radar jammer from the states...

Both the handheld radars and the car mounted radars can detect jamming

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRXTOR

...the new radar unit's apparently can detect the use of a radar detector...

The HWP cars actually have a seperate unit called a radar detector detector. Handheld radars cannot detect radar detectors (however handheld radars are being replaced by Lasers/LIDAR's)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRXTOR

...But a (radar) jammer...should aslo be able to beat it in court seeing as it doesn't actually detect radar if ou ever get caught with it.

There's actually heavier penalties for radar detectors than for speeding

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

...you have to query a whole bunch of things...query certification of the radar in the morning...

You actually have to request from the Police Commissioner the records for that particular radar unit, eg when it was last calibrated, when the officer was last certified on that unit etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

...Argue that there was other traffic that they locked onto; that they mistakingly locked onto another vehicle and pulled you over...

Don't forget - if you are travelling beside another car, an oncoming HWP car cannot tell which one of the cars is speeding.

Panda

Dave_au · 21-08-2005, 08:26 PM

Panda/xrxtor you have PM

XRQTOR · 22-08-2005, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Panda/xrxtor you have PM

Thanks for pointiong it out, have seen it before and it cannot be used as it is not an actual hard copy. Number 3 would let me walk, he couldn't have had a 3 sec lock even if i was doing the limit and there were no car's in front of him.

GT290 · 22-08-2005, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda

Fight the bastards. You were less than 10% over the posted speed limit. Their instruments have an error of 10% so unless you 'fessed up to the cop, they can't 100% prove you were speeding.I've searched high and low, it is accessible but at a cost....a substantial cost. I forget exactly where the information was but it was something like Department of Public Records.Yep, radar detectors are illegal in every state except Western Australia.Both the handheld radars and the car mounted radars can detect jammingThe HWP cars actually have a seperate unit called a radar detector detector. Handheld radars cannot detect radar detectors (however handheld radars are being replaced by Lasers/LIDAR's)There's actually heavier penalties for radar detectors than for speedingYou actually have to request from the Police Commissioner the records for that particular radar unit, eg when it was last calibrated, when the officer was last certified on that unit etcDon't forget - if you are travelling beside another car, an oncoming HWP car cannot tell which one of the cars is speeding.

Panda

I might make my next move to the NT..open road speed limits.

Panda · 22-08-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT290

I might make my next move to the NT..open road speed limits.

Yes, I was up there in June............cruise control set to 200km/h, life is good. Funny thing was, we had just been cruising at that speed for hours and passed through a little town in the middle of nowhere with a 60km/h speed limit. One of the guys got pulled over for doing 64km/h!

It proved to me that speed does not kill.

Panda