Caltex and Mobil - No more ULP [NSW]

FNQracing · 23-10-2009, 01:46 PM

My apologies if this is common knowledge.

I have heard from our Fleet Manager that Caltex and Mobil have written to them indicating that they will be phasing out ULP at most locations, and will be replaced by E10.

I'd like to know the sales figures in general of ULP vs E10

Anyone know?

GT0132 · 23-10-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFOracing

My apologies if this is common knowledge.

I have heard from our Fleet Manager that Caltex and Mobil have written to them indicating that they will be phasing out ULP at most locations, and will be replaced by E10.

I'd like to know the sales figures in general of ULP vs E10

Anyone know?

Well in that case I'm glad I use BP Ultimate

FPV+fteT3 · 23-10-2009, 01:51 PM

Lucky none of my cars use the watered down stuff 98 only.
I cringe at the thought of using that E10 in anything

Pinch · 23-10-2009, 02:22 PM

Great, not recommended for the NC (Tickford motor), or either of my boat engines. All three of those are recommended straight 91 only. Mini and Subie run premium so doesn't matter.

One of my boat engines is ONLY 2 weeks (2 hours running) old, so it's not like I have an old engine around that is not up to date with today's technology and fuels. A few large well spent it seems!

I would say at the lines at all the servo's I go to (no lines ever at E10 pumps), that 91 would outsell E10 by a significant margin. My new outboard documentation says to only use 95 if 91 is unavailable, and only for short periods. Warranty is voided if any biofuels or blends are used.

Meh, someone hasn't thought this through. Sure the vast majority of standard type Corolla's et al can run on E10 or 95, but not all engines. So now I have to pay upwards of $1.50 pl for 91 waterside, instead of getting it at $1.10 pl from a road servo. Marine fuel is currently exempted from E10 crap for good reason - fuel and engine reliability can be the difference between life and death! On a trailerable boat fueling up dockside is a pita compared with simply doing it on the way to the ramp. The shelf life of biofuels or blends is a mere fraction of what real fuel is. Leave some in your tanks for more than a few weeks and you could be walking or swimming back home. Bio-blends are really only safe in engines with fuel tanks that have a very high frequency of drain and refill.

Guess they are just getting us ready for when all the oil runs out - already phasing out fuels that our engines are designed to run on.

Bucknaked · 23-10-2009, 02:29 PM

There's nothing on their web site. Shouldn't it be announced on their site?

FALCONXTV8 · 23-10-2009, 02:31 PM

What sucks the most about all of this is that around a year or so ago premium was around 8cents a litre more than unleaded.That gap has now increased to around 15 cents a litre and yet hardly anything has been said about it.Now they are taking away unleaded and replacing it with this e10 garbage which will force alot of people to pay around 20cents a litre more for premium.WHAT A RORT!!

FNQracing · 23-10-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

There's nothing on their web site. Shouldn't it be announced on their site?

I can only assume that they are notifying the large fleet operators first - they have to make significant adjustments and notify their own customers of a fairly major change. Add to that the petrol card holders of said fleets who are presently restricted (well at least some of them) to the purchase of ULP on the cards.

Besides, who gives a rat's behind about the general public?

mac_man_luke · 23-10-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

Great, not recommended for the NC (Tickford motor), or either of my boat engines. All three of those are recommended straight 91 only. Mini and Subie run premium so doesn't matter.

One of my boat engines is ONLY 2 weeks (2 hours running) old, so it's not like I have an old engine around that is not up to date with today's technology and fuels. A few large well spent it seems!

I would say at the lines at all the servo's I go to (no lines ever at E10 pumps), that 91 would outsell E10 by a significant margin. My new outboard documentation says to only use 95 if 91 is unavailable, and only for short periods. Warranty is voided if any biofuels or blends are used.

Meh, someone hasn't thought this through. Sure the vast majority of standard type Corolla's et al can run on E10 or 95, but not all engines. So now I have to pay upwards of $1.50 pl for 91 waterside, instead of getting it at $1.10 pl from a road servo. Marine fuel is currently exempted from E10 crap for good reason - fuel and engine reliability can be the difference between life and death! On a trailerable boat fueling up dockside is a pita compared with simply doing it on the way to the ramp. The shelf life of biofuels or blends is a mere fraction of what real fuel is. Leave some in your tanks for more than a few weeks and you could be walking or swimming back home. Bio-blends are really only safe in engines with fuel tanks that have a very high frequency of drain and refill.

Guess they are just getting us ready for when all the oil runs out - already phasing out fuels that our engines are designed to run on.

That does not make any sense why could you not run 95? higher octane should not be a bad thing...

GTpilot · 23-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Ummm, Don't you have Shell or BP in NSW. If caltex and Mobil don't sell 91, don't go there.....

Paxton · 23-10-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Ummm, Don't you have Shell or BP in NSW. If caltex and Mobil don't sell 91, don't go there.....

Because BP and Shell also don't sell Regular Unleaded. We will have an all E10 Supply. Thank you Premier Iemma. NOT.

GTpilot · 23-10-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Because BP and Shell also don't sell Regular Unleaded. We will have an all E10 Supply. Thank you Premier Iemma. NOT.

Ahhh, Ok. I see then. Never venture down to that octane level so would not know even if vic is the same.

FORD5 · 23-10-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Ummm, Don't you have Shell or BP in NSW. If caltex and Mobil don't sell 91, don't go there.....

damn your FG is nice

EDManual · 23-10-2009, 04:29 PM

In Vic there is no govt mandate like in QLD cos we dont produce any ethanol. And thats great! I just hope it is never the case here!

I would rather put 9 litres of 91 octane in my tank than 9 litres of 91 and 1 litre of ethanol for the same price. It seems 9 litres of 91 to me goes further too! Its just rediculous!

All the consumption labels are wrong and worse now in QLD as thats not the fuel used anymore.

Neeek · 23-10-2009, 04:32 PM

Sounds like bollocks to me. Phasing out what is probably the largest selling fuel in favour of E10? Doesn't sound like a good business decision, does it...

GS608 · 23-10-2009, 04:36 PM

it does, because there are no other alternatives, they either push you to e10, so you get worse economy and have to fill up more often, or push you to 95/98 so you spend 15/20cents more on a tank, bigger profits for them..theres no reason why they need to phase out 91. It's pure

Copie · 23-10-2009, 06:48 PM

Government has plans to phase out regular ULP by mid 2011. Also while i know why people are jumping up and down about it, but in the end if you dont want to use it, use the 95 or 98 or even again by a diesel.

GS608 · 23-10-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copie

Government has plans to phase out regular ULP by mid 2011. Also while i know why people are jumping up and down about it, but in the end if you dont want to use it, use the 95 or 98 or even again by a diesel.

but thats what they want!
you to use the more expensive fuels

Airmon · 23-10-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Because BP and Shell also don't sell Regular Unleaded. We will have an all E10 Supply. Thank you Premier Iemma. NOT.

I get Regular Unleaded at Shells in NSW or is that going to be phased out?

Spewing, guess I'll have to cough up for 95 on the runabouts now.

Copie · 23-10-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

but thats what they want!
you to use the more expensive fuels

the profit margins on fuel is 2 tenths of bugger all anyways, for me it doesnt really worry me a huge deal as i get my motion lotion for wholesale anyways.

GS608 · 23-10-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copie

the profit margins on fuel is 2 tenths of bugger all anyways, for me it doesnt really worry me a huge deal as i get my motion lotion for wholesale anyways.

The Govt makes about ~50cents per litre through tax..thats a fair wack of money for nothing.

Paxton · 23-10-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

I get Regular Unleaded at Shells in NSW or is that going to be phased out?

Spewing, guess I'll have to cough up for 95 on the runabouts now.

I have to admit, I only go to BP these days, but the Shell near me has just been renovated, and has no Normal Unleaded, just E10.

Pinch · 23-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac_man_luke

That does not make any sense why could you not run 95? higher octane should not be a bad thing...

I wouldn't have thought so either, but both the owners manuals for my outboards, one Evinrude and one Parsun (Yamaha rip off) say to use 91, and only use 95 occassionally. They must be specifically tuned for 91 or something. Might be a 2 stroke thing too...

You are right though about the NC, 95 won't hurt it, just costs a shed load more for no discernable performance or economy gain (have tried). It just drains my wallet a lot quicker. And here ladies and gentlement is the likely rationale for the whole thing.

Pinch · 23-10-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I have to admit, I only go to BP these days, but the Shell near me has just been renovated, and has no Normal Unleaded, just E10.

Which one Paxton? So I don't waste my time pulling in.

Yellow_Festiva · 23-10-2009, 11:14 PM

I started the same thread around 12 months ago when this was just a whisper.

People who are saying to just go up an octane level and suck it up,,, what a joke. There are probably a million plus cars on the roads NOW that were designed to run on 91, will have no benefit when running on 95 and are not able to run on E10. My old Festiva was one such car.

So what do these people do? This is a totally unfair decision. Many of these people drive pre E10 cars because they simply cannot update to a newer model. So they either end up spending 10-15c/L more for 95, or risk running E10 and damaging the fuel system. What about the people who have engines, for whatever reason that should only be run on 91? I was reading the specs sheet on a new scooter and it specifically said to only use 91, and to not use 95 or E10.

Where is the government subsidy to help with conversions for E10?

E10 seems to also be somewhat non standardised / unregulated, why can I buy E10 in 91-95RON??? Can you Imagine if Premium was sold with a 'range' of 92-96RON?

How can there be such a thing as 91 E10 when ethanol is meant to be an octane booster?? So is 91E10 blended with lower grade unleaded perhaps???

Very stupid decision IMO.

Pinch · 24-10-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I started the same thread around 12 months ago when this was just a whisper.

People who are saying to just go up an octane level and suck it up,,, what a joke. There are probably a million plus cars on the roads NOW that were designed to run on 91, will have no benefit when running on 95 and are not able to run on E10. My old Festiva was one such car.

So what do these people do? This is a totally unfair decision. Many of these people drive pre E10 cars because they simply cannot update to a newer model. So they either end up spending 10-15c/L more for 95, or risk running E10 and damaging the fuel system. What about the people who have engines, for whatever reason that should only be run on 91? I was reading the specs sheet on a new scooter and it specifically said to only use 91, and to not use 95 or E10.

Where is the government subsidy to help with conversions for E10?

E10 seems to also be somewhat non standardised / unregulated, why can I buy E10 in 91-95RON??? Can you Imagine if Premium was sold with a 'range' of 92-96RON?

How can there be such a thing as 91 E10 when ethanol is meant to be an octane booster?? So is 91E10 blended with lower grade unleaded perhaps???

Very stupid decision IMO.

Agree.

And why are various manufacturers still allowed to sell expensive engines to this day (not just cars run on petrol) that are only recommended for 91? You either make a TOTAL move away from it, in which case you cannot allow the sale of engines designed to run on something that faces imminent phase out, or you forget about the fuel phase out until engines designed to run on it are no longer being sold.

Outboards costing up to 10g a piece are still being sold with warnings only to use 91, same with scooters it appears. All are large money purchases, only to have their warranties voided or worse months down the track.

Some government departments need to do some serious thinking - otherwise people with bikes, scooters, garden equipment etc will all be lining up down at their nearest marina* (who cares if it is hundreds or thousands of k's away) just to get the fuel their engines require.

Keep making the fuel, or stop selling the engines. Nothing in between.

*Currently exempt from having to sell E10 and other crap, because its a crap fuel in boats. And crap fuel in boats can kill people. At least there is some recognition.

castellan · 24-10-2009, 11:23 AM

The running of a caby motor that is tuned for 91, when using 95 or 98 will run richer and there can be a problems with spark plugs and not performing as it should. not something that you would want in a boat especially.
I have a dirt bike and the constant changing of different fuels these days has me constantly having to changing jetting to suit.
Some things with E10 is not good for is.
Boats, because of the condensation. it absorbs water more so.
Fuel will go off faster, not keep.
Your motor will run hotter.
There is nothing realy wrong with E10, just people have to know what they are dealing with.

FPV8U · 24-10-2009, 11:51 AM

I also run 98 only, but would consider a E10/Premium Blend at the suitable Octane Level (100+) when they are released more widespread.

Bucknaked · 26-10-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFOracing

I can only assume that they are notifying the large fleet operators first - they have to make significant adjustments and notify their own customers of a fairly major change. Add to that the petrol card holders of said fleets who are presently restricted (well at least some of them) to the purchase of ULP on the cards.

Besides, who gives a rat's behind about the general public?

Your source of information was spot on. 91 is being phased out.

I sent an email to Caltex to query the phasing out of unleaded, and I received a response today.

Basically what they are saying is that there is a government mandate banning the sale of regular unleaded by 2011. In QLD, they have already begun. Government says they must use Blended.

Other than QLD and NSW, remaining states continue to sell 91. I guess because they have not been made to stop selling it. Both 95 and 98 will continue to be sold.

I'm happy that they took the time to send me a response.

So there we go. 91 to be gone by 2011 in NSW and QLD. 95 and 98 are staying. I assume other oil companies will follow suit sometime soon.

castellan · 27-10-2009, 09:06 AM

I think all of the USA is running E10 now.

Hrdtop75 · 19-02-2010, 09:13 PM

Its happened before people!
Anyone remember how YOUR mate Johnny Howard took away leaded petrol?
That had me worried, I still run the original valves in my XB ute but a little bottle solves the problem.
There's always a solution... what are you worried about?
I would love to tell you that 98's the only way to go but....... my daily drive is a WB Festiva.
I was concerned about the E10 issue when I was printing the Flyers for Caltex at work. I spoke to a Caltex employee at North Ryde, the one of two employees that has a brain in their skulls told me that E10 will work perfectly in cars post 1995. I'm not sure what you'd use pre 95'.