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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 619
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I've just been looking up statistics online - if we look at old Falcons vs. Commodores, there are about 3 times as many Commodores left on the roads than Falcons. See numbers here:
Commodore: 1996 6293 7% 1997 6284 8% 1998 8975 9% 1999 14558 17% Falcon: 1996 2212 3% 1997 2232 3% 1998 2439 3% 1999 4187 6% Here's where things get weird - if we look at 2003 models (BA vs VY) a higher percentage of Falcons remain compared with Commodores! It's about 50% vs 40%. (how can Falcon go from 50% of 2003's remaining to 6% of 1999s! In the space of 4 years... wow!) Note: the above figures are only for sedans and wagons, and don't include utes. Falcon figures include Fairmont, while Commodore include Calais. Last edited by MrZ; 12-04-2024 at 08:20 AM. |
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#2 | ||
Purveyor of fine filth
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 316
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I'll cop a heap of flak for this but the explanation is simple, the Falcons of that era have rusted away. Paint prep wasn't Ford's forte (no pun intended) and it carried over to the B-series and to a lesser extent the F-series too. Holden painted their cars to a much higher standard than Ford.
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pt Lincoln far side South Oz
Posts: 5,763
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Dont p i s s off older people. At our age the term Life in Prison is not a deterrent |
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,142
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How are they registered, are Falcon and Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia listed as different models while commodore covers everything from Executive - Berlina - Calais?
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 619
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Falcon and Fairmont are registered separately, but I combined them in my figures above. Same for Commodore and Calais.
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 624
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Sad to say but rust is a big factor.. commodores held up much better that falcons
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#7 | ||
praek tih kl jo kr
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atwell W.A.
Posts: 1,649
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Ford never sold as many cars as Holden did, 2018 was the first time Ford outsold Holden and we all know why.
Holden sold more cars for 21 years, part of this due to its success at Bathurst and peoples mentality back then that a winning car has to be a good car So if you compare the sales numbers of each brand each year you will see that Holden was selling pretty much 3 to 1, with toyota taking up second place in car sales, this will affect your percentage when looking at the data |
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#8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 619
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Quote:
Last edited by MrZ; 12-04-2024 at 11:12 AM. |
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#9 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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Also better support from GM and the aftermarket for older Commodores compared to Falcons, you can still get genuine parts for my VSII Caprice from my local LDV dealer
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#10 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Maryborough VIC Votes for: Coalition
Posts: 450
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Quote:
Not to mention, the AU was less rust prone than the EL and that could potentially account for the higher 1999 figures than 1998. Holdens have been considerably less rust prone than the equivalent Ford since VN.
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1996 XH Falcon GLi manual - Dynamic White 1998 EL Falcon Futura auto - Dynamic White 2023 SKODA Octavia RS - Moon White 1997 BMW E36 318i manual - Alpine White |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Don't think rust protection is any better between the two.
VLs rusted as bad yet there's a 100x more on the road today than XFs. It's simply due to Holden having more Holden enthusiasts, who will keep their cars on the road longer. And Holden sold more enthusiast models, which are more likely going to stay on the road longer also.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#12 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Maryborough VIC Votes for: Coalition
Posts: 450
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Quote:
__________________
1996 XH Falcon GLi manual - Dynamic White 1998 EL Falcon Futura auto - Dynamic White 2023 SKODA Octavia RS - Moon White 1997 BMW E36 318i manual - Alpine White |
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#13 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Outer-Inner-Northern Melbourne
Posts: 243
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I assume transmission issues sent quite a few to an early crushing. Head gaskets for the E-series too.
With that being said, here in Melbourne, I see more AU-BF Falcons than VT-VZ Commodores, though I do live in the northern suburbs, so that probably skews things.
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2003 BA Falcon XL Ute - LPG, Column Shift, Surprisingly non-sagging headliner |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
Holden changed their assembly procedures at VN & from then onwards were markedly better in the rust department than the equivalent Ford. Find any VN-VS these days, it might have dead trim & some of the electrics & mechanicals, but their bodies do seem have stood the test of time. Have a look in wrecking yards, it's quite noticeable. You're are correct about the enthusiast market, Ford took a 10-12 year break from anything remotely resembling a performance car, while HDT & HSV had a field day. This shows up in desirability & resale values of cars of that era. Dr Terry |
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,618
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Great use of data there Mr Z.
I've wondered the same looking at how few Falcon wagons survive compared to the Commodore ones. I concluded the Fords were more likely to be fleet and run to high kms/into the ground earlier, while the Holdens probably attracted more private buyers who kept them over the years, like my mum and dad. Also, yes, the cars would get to the stage where the head gasket or transmission is more expensive to replace compared to value of the car, and it's see ya later wrecking time for most of those. It will be interesting to see how today's more complex/expensive to repair cars go through this value/scrapping point.
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I6 + AWD |
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#16 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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Everyone is wrong, we all know its because the superior engine option of the mighty 3.8L Ecotec V6
![]() Had this old bloke customer with a VN wagon come into my workshop for a rear wiper motor, things odometer stopped working at 727,000km, this was in 2015. The guy had been all around Australia in it with his family, had done two gearboxes and still on its original Buick V6, the predecessor to the mighty Ecotec, I reckon he's probably pushing up daisies now he was old AF back then, VN wagon is still probably going. |
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#17 | |||
WT GT
![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,759
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Quote:
^^^ this There was nothing worth preserving in between XE to EB |
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#18 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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#19 | |||
praek tih kl jo kr
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atwell W.A.
Posts: 1,649
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Quote:
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#20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 996
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,618
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Quote:
Edit: or they get an LS swap lol
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I6 + AWD |
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#22 | ||
Purveyor of fine filth
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 316
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#23 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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Quote:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...l-gnx-history/ |
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#24 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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Quote:
https://www.holley.com/blog/post/eve...n_v_lt_engine/ Perfect engine for repower of VDJ79 ![]() |
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#25 | |||
Purveyor of fine filth
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 316
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Quote:
Is that cheap? |
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#26 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,027
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Yep, they're usually around $15K mark.
https://www.eagleautoparts.com.au/pr...ngine-19431953 Given a new 1VD-FTV from a VDJ79 is usually just under $20K ![]() https://www.nunawadingtoyotaparts.co...es-1vdftv-long |
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,374
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I went out for a smoke the other day and there was an EF or EL Falcon in the carpark.
First thought was it was it's been a long time since I have seen one, and it was parked next to a new Hilux. These cars used to be large and everywhere now it is rare ![]() |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,374
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Now that I think of it. The Falcon went from AU to BA-BF to FG-FGX with what seems no real increase in size.
Go from VT-VZ to VE-VF and it is a massive difference in size. |
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,921
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Adelaide has them all. Still see them regularly including Fairlanes of the era. Some are even neat and tidy
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,374
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There is a bloke who has a mint EL XR6 in my complex. He must be in his 80s at best maybe pushing 90s. Still driving it and walking around every day
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