Band of Brothers Tour 2013

[csv8]

If you are interested in military history, this would be a good tour to go on.
The tour retraces the steps of Easy Company from the beaches of Normandy to Berchesgarten. Its $5kaus. plus airfare from Aus.
http://www.beyondbandofbrothers.com/...escombined13tr

[GasoLane]

5K to be told how they "saved the rest of the World" .... No thanks.

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

5K to be told how they "saved the rest of the World" .... No thanks.

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

Fair enough but Juliar is having the 100th Anniversary by ballott!!!!!!

[GasoLane]

Do you mean that if you want to go to Gallipoli you have to be in a lottery ?

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

5K to be told how they "saved the rest of the World" .... No thanks.

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

And have to share it with those fanatics *******? no thanks.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

5K to be told how they "saved the rest of the World" .... No thanks.

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

They should ro a rommel one. Kasserine pass.

[csv8]

Uproar at 2015 Gallipoli Dawn Service quota ballot

by: Mark Dodd
From: The Australian
September 27, 2012 12:00AM
28 comments

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THE announcement of a national ballot to determine an Australian tourist quota for the Anzac Day centenary has triggered anger and frustration for scores of paid-up tour group customers expecting to attend the 2015 Gallipoli Dawn Service in Turkey.

Veterans Affairs Minister Warren Snowdon yesterday declared a limit of 8000 Australian visitors to the centenary, and proposed that priority goes to descendants of Gallipoli veterans.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

5K to be told how they "saved the rest of the World" .... No thanks.

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

Interesting view....

If the yanks had not supported the pommes UK would have fallen in 1941 and if they had not been involved in the battle of the Coral Sea we would have been in all sorts of trouble. Do a bit of research on "The Brisbane Line".

You may not like the fact that they were THE major force behind the defeat of Nazi Germany and Japan but that does not change history.....

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting view....

If the yanks had not supported the pommes UK would have fallen in 1941 and if they had not been involved in the battle of the Coral Sea we would have been in all sorts of trouble. Do a bit of research on "The Brisbane Line".

You may not like the fact that they were THE major force behind the defeat of Nazi Germany and Japan but that does not change history.....

USSR played a big hand too.

not to mention Hitler not listening to his generals.

[csv8]

Broadmeadows might now be a Nissan etc factory??????

[CFOUR]

good mate of mine did a similar trip in 2011, he had a blast.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting view....

If the yanks had not supported the pommes UK would have fallen in 1941 and if they had not been involved in the battle of the Coral Sea we would have been in all sorts of trouble. Do a bit of research on "The Brisbane Line".

You may not like the fact that they were THE major force behind the defeat of Nazi Germany and Japan but that does not change history.....

Operation Sealion (the invasion of Britain) would have failed regardless of whether the United States was providing support to Britain or not.

Whilst the US was the major force behind defeating Japan, the fall of Nazi Germany can be largely attributed to the Russians and their 1944 Strategic Offensive and operations into 1945. The Western Allies hastened Germany's demise, but if the US and the UK had not have conducted the D-Day invasion, the iron curtain would have simply extended to the English Channel instead of through Germany as it did.

All of this of course isnt taking anything away from the sacrifices those countries made to get the job done of course.

[neptune blue]

This would be a once in a life time opportunity and if I could afford to go I'd be on the plane
As for the comments about the yanks being fanatics , may be so
But make no mistake gentlemen the only reason the Nazis did not win the war in Europe was because of the second front
The yanks spearheaded operation Torch in North Africa then landed in Italy
Then the 3 rd front was Normandy
The Germans were moving tanks and artillery from the Easten to the western front to try and stem the Allied front. While the situation on the eastern front wasnt great for the Germans this certainly helped the Russians who had been asking the yanks to start another front since 1942

Strategic day light bombing, again the yanks starved the Germans of material needed to rage war

So yes they are loud, cocky and full of them selves but be thankful the men of easy company and the thousands of others just like them gave thier lives with thousands of other men from other countries, to give us the freedom we all take for granted so a little respect please

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Operation Sealion (the invasion of Britain) would have failed regardless of whether the United States was providing support to Britain or not.

Whilst the US was the major force behind defeating Japan, the fall of Nazi Germany can be largely attributed to the Russians and their 1944 Strategic Offensive and operations into 1945. The Western Allies hastened Germany's demise, but if the US and the UK had not have conducted the D-Day invasion, the iron curtain would have simply extended to the English Channel instead of through Germany as it did.

All of this of course isnt taking anything away from the sacrifices those countries made to get the job done of course.

Oh I see.

So the pommes, who were out of resources and had their manufacturing smashed would have had no problem holding off Germany in 1940, 12 months BEFORE they went to war with USSR and 4 years BEFORE D-Day without military and strategic support in the way of food and material via convoys from USA?

[XA-coupe73]

http://battlefields.com.au/

Matt McLachlan battlefield tours.
Maybe something more applicable to those wanting an Aussie experience.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh I see.

So the pommes, who were out of resources and had their manufacturing smashed would have had no problem holding off Germany in 1940, 12 months BEFORE they went to war with USSR and 4 years BEFORE D-Day without military and strategic support in the way of food and material via convoys from USA?

Yes they would have. Britain was not the economic and industrial basket case you are making out, they still had the capacity to wage war and defend themselves, the Battle of Britain, Middle East campaigns being a case in point.

Germany did not have the naval assets to blockade the English Channel for an extended period to ensure they got their beachhead properly established. There was also an issue with capturing a decent port so they could unload heavy equipment like tanks and artillery pieces. No surprise then that the most "decent" ports in the south of England where they could do this (probably Dover) were also heavily defended...

Once the powerful RN fleet units started arriving from places like Scapa Flow (the Home Fleet, primarily Battleship squadrons) and the Mediterranean (Mediterranean Fleet which were multiple task forces with aircraft carriers) they would have bottled up the Channel at both ends and simply waged a war of attrition. The Poms could afford to lose some ships to air attack because they had plenty in reserve for this very reason. German ships and barges running the gauntlet to resupply their invasion force would have been contending with 14 and 15 inch shells fired by battleships and of course the RAF which was not yet beaten by the time they were planning on conducting the operation.

Once on British soil, the Germans would have faced the Home Guard, but fighting on their own turf and there were over 700,000 of them versus the 30 German divisions that were committed. They also would have to have dealt with the regular British Army, Free French, Polish and Commonwealth Divisions that were in Britain (or called in) at the time.

The Royal Military College Sandhurst did a war-room exercise of Operation Sealion in 1974 and concluded that the Germans would have failed. There were 3 German umpires at this exercise (who were all officers that served in WWII). There is an interesting Wiki article on the subject that is well referenced and makes for good reading.

A more interesting question to answer would be: what would the US had have done if the Nazis invaded Britain? Declare war or stay out of it?

[neptune blue]

Interesting post
Given the early successes of the Russian campaign by the Germans I thought that they could have taken England

hitler did not consider England as their natural enemy un like the Russians which may have also Swayed his decision not to invade
Remember it was the change of tactics from bombing RAF bases to cities that cost the Germans

It has been widely documented that fighter command was only weeks away from capitulation
The strategic error gave them the breathing space to amass lager fighter formations delivering the biggest blow to the Luftwaffe on the 15 th of September 1940 which is known as Battle of Britan day ( please correct me if I have the date wrong)

[ltd]

Sounds fantastic.

I know of someone who will jump at this, and I think I might try to join him.
My father was in the USA in 1998 at a Smithsonian and got to meet Major Dick Winters, he spoke to him for about 20 minutes and said he had to be the nicest and most humble person he'd ever met.
What stuck with him was whilst we may bemoan the trivialities of life, these guys who were ostensibly young boys were of such a caliber that they routinely had to deal with death, and had to do unspeakable things in the hope of survival. This goes of course for all the allied forces.

It's got to be fascinating seeing where these heroes served, much the same as those who do the Kakoda track. I'm a massive history fan and frankly if I can get the time I'll be on this faster than a hobo on a happy meal.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yes they would have. Britain was not the economic and industrial basket case you are making out, they still had the capacity to wage war and defend themselves, the Battle of Britain, Middle East campaigns being a case in point.

Germany did not have the naval assets to blockade the English Channel for an extended period to ensure they got their beachhead properly established. There was also an issue with capturing a decent port so they could unload heavy equipment like tanks and artillery pieces. No surprise then that the most "decent" ports in the south of England where they could do this (probably Dover) were also heavily defended...

Once the powerful RN fleet units started arriving from places like Scapa Flow (the Home Fleet, primarily Battleship squadrons) and the Mediterranean (Mediterranean Fleet which were multiple task forces with aircraft carriers) they would have bottled up the Channel at both ends and simply waged a war of attrition. The Poms could afford to lose some ships to air attack because they had plenty in reserve for this very reason. German ships and barges running the gauntlet to resupply their invasion force would have been contending with 14 and 15 inch shells fired by battleships and of course the RAF which was not yet beaten by the time they were planning on conducting the operation.

Once on British soil, the Germans would have faced the Home Guard, but fighting on their own turf and there were over 700,000 of them versus the 30 German divisions that were committed. They also would have to have dealt with the regular British Army, Free French, Polish and Commonwealth Divisions that were in Britain (or called in) at the time.

The Royal Military College Sandhurst did a war-room exercise of Operation Sealion in 1974 and concluded that the Germans would have failed. There were 3 German umpires at this exercise (who were all officers that served in WWII). There is an interesting Wiki article on the subject that is well referenced and makes for good reading.

A more interesting question to answer would be: what would the US had have done if the Nazis invaded Britain? Declare war or stay out of it?

1974?

Were these the same brilliant strategists who were sure the yanks would win Vietnam and the Russians would take Afghanistan?

The pommes were starving and running out of materials. The food etc. came from the yanks and to a lesser extent Canadians, no ifs no buts.
This began in 1939 many years before all of the above events.

You can play games all you like but if the pommes had to do it by themselves they would have got the silver medal in the same way that we would have lasted about 20 minutes against the Japanese.

[OzJavelin]

Staying slightly OT ... I'd have thought the without the massive injection of men and resources from the USA to at least distract and engage the Axis forces, the Germans could have had a move "leisurely" war .. Giving them time to perfect and deploy all those advanced weapons like the V1, V2 the jet engined fighters etc .. And their research into nuclear weapons.

Lucky they were overrun before most of that stuff could really be bought to bear against UK, USSR, etc.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Staying slightly OT ... I'd have thought the without the massive injection of men and resources from the USA to at least distract and engage the Axis forces, the Germans could have had a move "leisurely" war .. Giving them time to perfect and deploy all those advanced weapons like the V1, V2 the jet engined fighters etc .. And their research into nuclear weapons.

Lucky they were overrun before most of that stuff could really be bought to bear against UK, USSR, etc.

When I was at Wright Patterson AFB a few years ago I saw some of the captured German gear.
The air to air missiles and jet bombers that could outrun everything we had could have caused no end of problems....

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Staying slightly OT ... I'd have thought the without the massive injection of men and resources from the USA to at least distract and engage the Axis forces, the Germans could have had a move "leisurely" war .. Giving them time to perfect and deploy all those advanced weapons like the V1, V2 the jet engined fighters etc .. And their research into nuclear weapons.

Lucky they were overrun before most of that stuff could really be bought to bear against UK, USSR, etc.

the Germans could have had the me 262 jet figter in service as early as 1943 a full year earlier than it entered into service but the high command believed that the war wouldnt go for as long as it did hence the delay in developing this and many other weapons

the Germans also had no long range 4 engine strategic bombers for the very same reason

After the japs bombed Pearl harbour in december 1941 the architect of the attack Admiral Yamamotto stated "I feel that all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve"

he pretty much summed it up
like it or not the yanks saved our *****

just another quick point for the guys supporting the theory that the poms could have won the war .... in fact the poms and the french could have stopped the germans

when germany invaded poland, they had committed the bulk of their panzers, artillery and airforce to this attack

had the French and british attacked immediatly on the western front they would have over whelmed the german forces in the west resulting in the forces in the east being redeployed to the western front

interms of men and material at that time the french and british forces out numbered the germans

hindsight is a wonderful thing

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by flappist

1974?

Were these the same brilliant strategists who were sure the yanks would win Vietnam and the Russians would take Afghanistan?

The pommes were starving and running out of materials. The food etc. came from the yanks and to a lesser extent Canadians, no ifs no buts.
This began in 1939 many years before all of the above events.

You can play games all you like but if the pommes had to do it by themselves they would have got the silver medal in the same way that we would have lasted about 20 minutes against the Japanese.

Buh-bow

They had food rationing, which is what any responsible nation did then when its existence was threatened in time of war - that food rationing in itself probably did more to prevent mass starvation than any supply of materials from North America which I might add was being blown out of the Atlantic around this time by U-boat operations in the Battle of the Atlantic. So supplies of war material and consumables from the US to Britain during this period were severely disrupted, to the point of being a failure. So it's a bit hard to claim this aid from the US kept Britain alive when supply was so intermittent and in some cases non existent. You can't have it both ways.

In any event the German invasion of Britain was planned for late summer-early autumn 1940 where in actual fact the Poms didnt start urgently clamouring for supplies until 1941.

But now this thread has been totally derailed...apologies to the OP...maybe we should have a WWII thread.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Buh-bow

They had food rationing, which is what any responsible nation did then when its existence was threatened in time of war - that food rationing in itself probably did more to prevent mass starvation than any supply of materials from North America which I might add was being blown out of the Atlantic around this time by U-boat operations in the Battle of the Atlantic. So supplies of war material and consumables from the US to Britain during this period were severely disrupted, to the point of being a failure. So it's a bit hard to claim this aid from the US kept Britain alive when supply was so intermittent and in some cases non existent. You can't have it both ways.

In any event the German invasion of Britain was planned for late summer-early autumn 1940 where in actual fact the Poms didnt start urgently clamouring for supplies until 1941.

But now this thread has been totally derailed...apologies to the OP...maybe we should have a WWII thread.

It hasn't been derailed at all.

It was about a particular group of US paratroopers and their exploits in WW2. Some on here seem to think that USA was just a minor bystander. Others disagree.
For anyone to say the pommes held their own and just ignore the Australian, New Zealand, USA, Canadian, French, Belgian, Polish and whomever else who were there supporting is just living in denial....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by flappist

It hasn't been derailed at all.

It was about a particular group of US paratroopers and their exploits in WW2. Some on here seem to think that USA was just a minor bystander. Others disagree.
For anyone to say the pommes held their own and just ignore the Australian, New Zealand, USA, Canadian, French, Belgian, Polish and whomever else who were there supporting is just living in denial....

Couldn't agree more.
Further, it wasn't just the men and the infantry that the USA provided, it was a whole nation mobilised in the support of the war effort with hardware such as B17's, C47's, Spitfires, tanks, shells, artillery etc.

During the training of many British soldiers, they had to make do with timber cutouts fashioned to look like guns as they simply didn't have the capacity to produce enough weapons for their troops at the time. Further, Luftwaffe strategic bombing was very effective at knocking out several British factories which produced many of the needed items for war.

Britain knew they needed the USA to defeat the Germans, Churchill knew it, and he spent as much time with FDR trying desperately to get the USA involved; FDR was widely known to have wanted the USA to take on Hitler - so much so that it spawned various conspiracy theories alleging FDR had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor, and even allowed it to happen. 10 subsequent enquiries have since proven the alleged prior knowledge by FDR to be false.

Facts remain, the USA in all theaters of war in WWII saved the allies from the evil axis.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'd rather do a Gallipoli tour where the real heroes were.

what qualifies them as the 'real heroes'? they werent fighting to defend us - we werent under threat.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

... materials from North America which I might add was being blown out of the Atlantic around this time by U-boat operations in the Battle of the Atlantic. So supplies of war material and consumables from the US to Britain during this period were severely disrupted, to the point of being a failure.

It's my understanding (right or wrong) that the Americans built over 2,700 "Victory Ships" in an effort to overwhelm the Germans by sheer numbers; i.e. the Americans could build these ships faster than they could be destroyed. I would not call this a effort a failure.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by b0son

what qualifies them as the 'real heroes'? they werent fighting to defend us - we werent under threat.

Are you sure ?
It's all speculation now but some historians believe the japs could have got as far south as NSW
Australia had a very small navy, no aircraft carriers, planes were either spitfires or kitty hawks in limited supply , tanks were either British or American in limited supply , artillery pieces of a large calibre were also in limited supply

So you still believe we were not under threat

What were we going to stop them with boomerangs ?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

What were we going to stop them with boomerangs ?

Gallipolli - WWI
Japanese - WWII

Let the facepalming begin.

[neptune blue]

One thing you fail to remeber is that Gallipoli was a defeat for Australia
The Anzacs failed to meet most of their objectives in this campaign

This certainly does not take away their bravery, guts & dedication against hopeless odds and they are all heroes as far as I'm concerned
Australia was the invader here , the Turks were defending their homeland
So for the record there was never any Turkish threat against the australian continent
We went there to fight the Turks as they were allies of the Germans so as to help out the poms .. You know king & country ... Their country not ours

Now ww2 the turning point in the war in the South Pacific was midway where the yanks inflected heavy losses on the imperial Japanese navy' s aircraft carriers from which they never recovered
Without air superiority the allies were able to push the japs back

I'm not saying that australias efforts in Ww2 were frivolous but without the industrial manufacturing might of the yanks things may have turned out differently
You can think what you like but you can't re write recorded history