Finally - 2nd Airport for Sydney

[cheap]

Hopefully this time it will happen!

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...415-zqv0d.html

[Yellow_Festiva]

Personally, I disagree with a 2nd airport.

We just need to be smarter with how we use (or don't use) what we already have.

[Mechan1k]

Have fun landing and taking off during Autumn/Winter in the fog out there ... most mornings you can't see your hand in front of your face.

Then the fact the roads out there are average to poor at best.

[karj]

Coalition logic:

• Co-investment for manufacturing industries is bad... co-investment for infrastructure is good.
• Significant job losses in Victoria and South Australia from demise of auto-industry... so let's create 60,000 jobs in Western Sydney.

Abbott quote: "an airport for western Sydney"

Western Sydney... where elections are won and lost. Construction scheduled to begin around time of next federal election.

Politics...

[GasoLane]

Mascot and aircraft reminds me a little of Footscray and heavy vehicles.

Originally Planes landed at Mascot anytime, and Trucks drove through the Footscray industrial area 24/7.

Then the 'New Breed' of home owner bought houses there as they were lower priced than nearby suburbs. Mascot and Footscray were after all, relatively noisy areas.

The 'New Breed' then pestered anyone who would listen that something should be done about the noise pollution.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[cheap]

So I guess it must be OK for people living "out West" (Blacktown/Penrith etc) to have to drive hours to get to Mascot. Everyone in Sydney must be enjoying the traffic congestion too, Western suburbs business overjoyed having stuff funnel into and out of Mascot. And somehow it is perfectly OK to have unsustainable manufacturing jobs in Victoria/SA but it's bad to be creating jobs in Sydney

Someone remind me, how many people now live in the greater area of Sydney and geographically how big is Sydney. How many people live east of Parramatta and how many live West of Parramatta.

Did the alarm clock not go off, this may come as a shock - but it is 2014 not the 1950's.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by cheap

So I guess it must be OK for people living "out West" (Blacktown/Penrith etc) to have to drive hours to get to Mascot. Everyone in Sydney must be enjoying the traffic congestion too, Western suburbs business overjoyed having stuff funnel into and out of Mascot. And somehow it is perfectly OK to have unsustainable manufacturing jobs in Victoria/SA but it's bad to be creating jobs in Sydney

Someone remind me, how many people now live in the greater area of Sydney and geographically how big is Sydney. How many people live east of Parramatta and how many live West of Parramatta.

Did the alarm clock not go off, this may come as a shock - but it is 2014 not the 1950's.

So, the issue is one of transportation then (or lack thereof)?

Blacktown to the airport is less than an hr by train.

They can subsidise families in Western Sydney to keep them happy much the same as they did with the M4/M5 cashback scheme.

BTW... food for thought? Using public transport, whick trip is quicker? Vaucluse to the airport or Blacktown to the airport??

You may be surprised.....

We really have a mis-management of public facilities. This is obvious. We have a world class airport in a world class city strangled by shoddy transportation options and flight curfews that date back to who knows when (who does know actually?? Curious to find out how dated they are?).

Continually filling up a leaking bucket to keep it full doesn't solve the leak!

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Mascot and aircraft reminds me a little of Footscray and heavy vehicles.

Originally Planes landed at Mascot anytime, and Trucks drove through the Footscray industrial area 24/7.

Then the 'New Breed' of home owner bought houses there as they were lower priced than nearby suburbs. Mascot and Footscray were after all, relatively noisy areas.

The 'New Breed' then pestered anyone who would listen that something should be done about the noise pollution.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Thats interesting... Any idea when that all changed?

The new breed must have then got rich from the newly imposed curfew, watched prices shoot up, sold then moved to the block next to Luna Park to have a sook about the Big Dipper and 'all that noise'....

[cheap]

Ah the old public transport being used to get to the airport solution. I can see a few issues with Christmas season and families simply jumping on a bus/train with their luggage... And remind me where is the train station that services the international terminal at Mascot?

Blacktown to Badgery - say 20 minutes sounds a bit more reasonable than struggling with public transport.

It's called decentralisation, Parramatta became a city with many government offices relocating there. Sydney has moved beyond Martin Place and Mascot being the epicentre.

[2011G6E]

Simple...drop the stupid curfews on international airports.

You want to have the benefits of living in a major capital city? Then don't complain about a bit of aircraft noise.

Why the hell would you restrict what time flights from remote parts of the world...and most places are remote from Australia...are allowed to turn up?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Simple...drop the stupid curfews on international airports.

You want to have the benefits of living in a major capital city? Then don't complain about a bit of aircraft noise.

Why the hell would you restrict what time flights from remote parts of the world...and most places are remote from Australia...are allowed to turn up?

Sydney is huge and growing it has moved on, the one airport solution reached its use by date years ago. Have you driven through some of the surrounding suburbs under the approach paths you can literally count the rivets on the fuselage as the planes fly low. You expect people to live with this 24x7? These are not well to do suburbs either.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by cheap

Sydney is huge and growing it has moved on, the one airport solution reached its use by date years ago. Have you driven through some of the surrounding suburbs under the approach paths you can literally count the rivets on the fuselage as the planes fly low. You expect people to live with this 24x7? These are not well to do suburbs either.

I live around 4km from the E/W runway and the landing approach is right over my unit. The planes are low, very low.

My lounge room and bedroom face the airport as well, the lights from the airport give the night sky in that direction a glow that never makes the night dark.

I would be a mug to have a sook about noise... The only people who may have a valid complaint are the ones that were here before the airport.

[cheap]

So you'd be in support of lifting the curfew and experiencing 24x7 fly overs? How about the traffic gridlock? I imagine it would also become 24x7 (not that it isn't like that in some areas already).

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by cheap

Ah the old public transport being used to get to the airport solution. I can see a few issues with Christmas season and families simply jumping on a bus/train with their luggage... And remind me where is the train station that services the international terminal at Mascot?

Blacktown to Badgery - say 20 minutes sounds a bit more reasonable than struggling with public transport.

Dozens of countries and (and families) rely on public transport to get around. Including going to an airport.

What we need is better transport solutions and the reduction of the curfew. How will a 2nd airport help the people living in distant satelite cities that still require leaving from Sydney?

Sure, Western Sydney needs to be looked after but there are people that live much further out of the city and surrounding areas that use Sydney.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by cheap

So you'd be in support of lifting the curfew and experiencing 24x7 fly overs?

Iv'e only said it 3 or 4 times now....

What a joke. We close at 10pm and open at 6am..

I would love to know WHEN the curfew has come into place??

Since it has, lets assume:

* People are generally up more due to the in home entertainment options we have (TV, Internet etc)
* People work longer hours.
* People travel more for business / pleasure.
* Planes have become MUCH quieter.
* Population goes up.

Things change... the rules and regulations need to change with them.

[cheap]

Goes to show lived there for years and never knew there was an international station let alone used it. The domestic station I've used to get into the city and North shore line.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What a joke. We close at 10pm and open at 6am..

Would the last one out of Syd please turn off the lights

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I would love to know WHEN the curfew has come into place??

According to the Wiki people.....

"In 1995 the Australian Parliament passed the Sydney Airport Curfew Act 1995, which limits the operating hours of the airport. This was done in an effort to curb complaints about aircraft noise. The curfew prevents aircraft from taking off or landing between the hours of 11pm and 6am."

[BLUEYBA]

Western Sydney already has some of the worst pollution and this will only add to it. With no sea breeze to blow the pollution away like Mascot its only going to get worse. Like stated before airports and fog don't mix

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by cheap

Goes to show lived there for years and never knew there was an international station let alone used it. The domestic station I've used to get into the city and North shore line.

No worries.

This is a big part of the problem. In reality, our public transport is rubbish, inefficient and expensive. Oh, did I say it was rubbish??

I live close to the airport, and have been dropped off and picked up several times from local friends. When I was living out west I did it by train because I knew there wouldn't be traffic etc.

Having said that, you tell a Sydney sider to go to the airport by train and they often look at you in disgust. Don't know how to do it, don't know about it, and the ticket price is now around $15 a pop one way.

We have been brought up to rely on a car because there is often no better alternative. It shouldn't be that way.

You know Sydney Airport clears around $2million PER WEEK from PARKING ALONE?? Why is that???

Regarding the curfew… If Mascot has it, will the new one also have it??

So we will have 2 airports that are only 66% utilised.

Also, in regards to the whole debate in general? How many years has it been going on?? Heaps! Why, because there is a lot of angst towards it.

If the government announced spending on public infrastructure like more / better transport options would there be as much opposition?

If they announced that thew are going to fast track the release of rural land to housing to create another 100,000 building blocks, would there be as much opposition???

If the government is in the mood for spending, a 2nd airport is very much down on the list of what is really needed.

Don't get me wrong, I know 'we' will need a 2nd international airport some day. I just don't think it should be located within the Sydney area.

[Franco Cozzo]

At least you guys have some form of rail transport into the airport, here in Melbourne we have nothing, the only way in and out from the Airport to Melbourne is by the Tullamarine Freeway.

Its not so bad if you're coming from the other direction from central Victoria though, but a taxi ride from my town to the airport is around $100+.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

You know Sydney Airport clears around $2million PER WEEK from PARKING ALONE?? Why is that???

Easy answer....Macquarie Bank and Max Moore-Wilton run the show

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

* Planes have become MUCH quieter.

If the particular carrier flying over your house has the newer, quieter models. A lot of the regional carriers and dedicated FIFO carriers don't, and they are bloody noisy.

[AndyXR6T]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

At least you guys have some form of rail transport into the airport, here in Melbourne we have nothing, the only way in and out from the Airport to Melbourne is by the Tullamarine Freeway.

Its not so bad if you're coming from the other direction from central Victoria though, but a taxi ride from my town to the airport is around $100+.

I live in Sydney and absolutely despise driving in and out of it, catching public transport in it etc, but Melbourne has an awesome system I rekon. You get off the plane, follow simple exit signs, once outside there is signage everywhere for buses taxis etc. Jump on a sky bus and away you go! I spent a week in Melbourne recently and did not get lost once. Lived in Sydney for the past 27 years and get lost in it every day lol

[2011G6E]

If you don't mind being the laughing stock of the world, fine, keep the curfew. However, if you pretend to be a cosmopolitan, modern city of international standing, then realise that they rest of the world goes 24/7, and people don't want to be limited in the hours they are allowed to travel.

A curfew from 10pm to 6am?
I wonder how much longer the need for a second airport could have been put off if they had the luxury of an extra eight hours a day to take off and land within...? That's the big question.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by karj

Coalition logic:

• Co-investment for manufacturing industries is bad... co-investment for infrastructure is good.
• Significant job losses in Victoria and South Australia from demise of auto-industry... so let's create 60,000 jobs in Western Sydney.

Abbott quote: "an airport for western Sydney"

Western Sydney... where elections are won and lost. Construction scheduled to begin around time of next federal election.

Politics...

You do realise that the first is taking out of private hands and into governments while the second is inviting private companies in to the space usually controlled/financed by governments i.e. infrastructure we all use.

The first dot looks a valid point but its not imo

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

If you don't mind being the laughing stock of the world, fine, keep the curfew. However, if you pretend to be a cosmopolitan, modern city of international standing, then realise that they rest of the world goes 24/7, and people don't want to be limited in the hours they are allowed to travel.

A curfew from 10pm to 6am?
I wonder how much longer the need for a second airport could have been put off if they had the luxury of an extra eight hours a day to take off and land within...? That's the big question.

Londons Heathrow, gatwick and stanstead have a curfews from circa 23:00- 06:00. and London is a real city too! with real public transport.
Cheers

JP

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Londons Heathrow, gatwick and stanstead have a curfews from circa 23:00- 06:00. and London is a real city too! with real public transport.
Cheers

JP

I'm sure having 3 airports helps greatly with a population around double of Sydney.

You may have your times wrong as well re the curfews, Just looked up Heathrow and they have arrival / departure info showing 3 planes landed at 5:05 and 5:25am.

Seems Heathrow is much bigger as well (5 terminals??) and around 170,000 more aircraft movements per year compared to Sydney.

[Road_Warrior]

They must have changed it, certainly when I lived there in 2005 there was a curfew at Heathrow. And definitely at Stanstead, because I (and 50,000 others) camped out overnight in the terminal to get the 6:00am redeye to Munich :

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Seems Heathrow is much bigger as well (5 terminals??) and around 170,000 more aircraft movements per year compared to Sydney.

We arrived in Heathrow last year at 04:30hrs and we were running 45 minute delay.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm sure having 3 airports helps greatly with a population around double of Sydney.

You may have your times wrong as well re the curfews, Just looked up Heathrow and they have arrival / departure info showing 3 planes landed at 5:05 and 5:25am.

Seems Heathrow is much bigger as well (5 terminals??) and around 170,000 more aircraft movements per year compared to Sydney.

I worked for heathrow for 5 years designing the new Eastern campus development.

The six 'London' (within 64 Km's) airports serve the south east of the UK not just london, giving a population of near 25 million people access to near 135 million passenger flights a year and near 2 million tonnes of freight. (sydney is circa 35 million passengers) for a city of 3.5 million
Curfew is probably the wrong word, the hours quoted are hours of restricted use limiting the runways to certain code aircraft determined by sound emittance. the other airports not named in my post have different restrictions.

JP