Mondeo very noisy in the rear.

[XtRmn8]

We have notice that our Zetec sedan has developed a very annoying noise in the rear of the car. This was first noticed about 10000kms ago and has gotten worse over time. It is almost like real bad tyre noise on rough roads, which then develops into a humming noise and get worse with speed.

Sitting int he front you can hear it for sure and sitting in the back it is very load. We only noticed it after about 4 people commented on how load it was. I think because it been getting worse over time we may have gotten used to it and hence it was not as apparent to us.

Anyway going to report it at next service, but as with every other fault I feel this is going to be flagged as "normal".

Anyone had similar issues with their Mondeo?

Thanks

[NZ XR6]

Have you looked at the wear on the rear tyres? If the alignment's out, the resulting wear pattern can cause tyre noise. Otherwise it could be a wheel bearing - even a Ford service department should be able to diagnose a noisy bearing!

[svo supporter]

How long since the tyres have been rotated? I suspect they've gone lumpy.

Thing to remember is, all the rear tyres do on those cars is hold the bum off the ground. So there is no weight pushing them onto the road surface. So when you're driving along, they tend to "skip" over the bumps and you end up with "flat" spots all around the tyre.

Unfortunately, it's not a Ford fault as such, so you won't have a warranty claim. The only fix you'll have is replace.

To check it for yourself, run your hand over the surface of the tyre. If it's got highs and lows, instead of being totally smooth, there's your problem.

BTW. It's a common occurance on all front wheels drive cars, not jsut the Mondeo

[XtRmn8]

Thanks for the replies. Car has done 45000kms on original wheels/tyres. Always serviced by the dealer we bought it from so unless they rotated the tyres during scheduled servicing, they would have never been done. Having said that I do not think front/rears have ever been swapped as the wife scrapped a kerb and that rime is still on the front left.

I will check the tyres when I get home tonight and see if I can fell the "highs and lows" on the rear.

We do a lot of (80%) 100km/h+ freeway driving so not sure if this would contribute.

Cheers

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by XtRmn8

Thanks for the replies. Car has done 45000kms on original wheels/tyres. Always serviced by the dealer we bought it from so unless they rotated the tyres during scheduled servicing, they would have never been done. Having said that I do not think front/rears have ever been swapped as the wife scrapped a kerb and that rime is still on the front left.

I will check the tyres when I get home tonight and see if I can fell the "highs and lows" on the rear.

We do a lot of (80%) 100km/h+ freeway driving so not sure if this would contribute.

Cheers

I can guarantee that you have lumpy rear tyres, judging by your above post.

As for the sort of driving you do. Not really. It's more a case of it being the nature of a front wheel drive car. As I've previously stated, the rears are just there to keep the bum off the ground. Not much else

[XtRmn8]

svo supporter, I think you are 110% correct with what you have said.
All I can say is WOW!! Never would I have thought that this was even possible.

I took some pictures to compare the front and rear passenger side tyres.

Fronts have done 45000kms, I was expecting them to last until 60000km. Rub your hand over the face of the tyre and they are nice and smooth.



Now to the rear. Quiet shocked after I rubbed my hand over the tyre. Most of the "unevenness" is on the inner half of the tyre. Only way to describe it is like real bad brick paving, its is literally all over the shop.



Paying $330 for an oil change "scheduled service" you would think the dealer would rotate the tyres or am I expecting too much? Bunch of useless w@****$

I hope other people find this information useful and again thanks to 'svo supporter'.

Cheers

[NZ XR6]

The tyres should be rotated every service - it's in the schedule. They have to remove the wheels to check the brakes so I have no idea why it's not done.

According to my tyre guru, once they've worn like that, there's nothing you can do to stop the noise except replace them.

[Larso]

Have been following this thread with interest the last couple of days as we picked up a used 08 zetec hatch from a Ford dealership on Saturday. The car has 34,00km on the clock. I noticed it had new front tyres and used factory tyres on the rears. I must admit when I was test driving the car on my own I really didn't notice the noise. Had the family in the car over the weekend and it became really apparent. Checked the rears this morning and they are like the above pictures. Dont think I have a leg to stand on but I will speak the the dealer and see if they will come to the party.

[XtRmn8]

Larso, I will be replacing the tyres in the next couple of days and will update the thread.

The tyres on our car have clearly not been rotated on the 15000km and 30000km scheduled services. I am not even going to bother wasting my time with the dealer, nor will I be going back there for servicing. I will rotate the new tyres myself every 10000kms to avoid this from occurring again.

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

The tyres should be rotated every service - it's in the schedule. They have to remove the wheels to check the brakes so I have no idea why it's not done.

According to my tyre guru, once they've worn like that, there's nothing you can do to stop the noise except replace them.

One of the problems with the alloy wheeled cars is that if you do not tell the service personnel where the security key nut is (assuming you have moved it from the spare wheel well for safekeeping) they ain't going to be able to get the wheels off.

Also I can see the brake pads on our car by viewing between the spokes, at least on the outer pads - and I'm guessing mechanics might do the same. Anyway I take the wear information with from the dealership with a grain of salt.

On the Territory at 60,000 km the brake pads were quoted at 30% remaining at front and 35% at rear with a recommendation for a change at the next service. When I got them off the remaining pad material on the fronts was close to 50% and on the rears close to 60% by a straight depth comparison with the brand new bendix pads I had sourced.

Tyres similarly. I fitted a brand new set of Forteras which have a tread depth of 8 mm above the depth indicators when new. the car was serviced after about 3,000 km from fitting - report from service centre was 60% tread remaining on front and 55% on rear. My measurement showed 7.75 mm of tread on all tyres above the depth indicators. : Pays to be careful and use some common sense.

In the case of the "Knobbly" tyres, if there is reasonable tread depth left (and being on the rear of the car there ought to be, if no rotation has occurred) I would effect a "rotation" and give them up to 2,000 km to see what happens. I'm suspecting that the higher friction levels on the raised portions of the tread maght get them smoothed out, given some travel. You could also try swapping the rear tyres side to side so that the raised patterns are reversed.

Remember here on an FWD a "rotation" simply swaps the tyres on each side, i.e. driver's rear to driver's front and viceversa - same on passenger side.

Don't know if NZ XR6's tyre "guru" is a friend, but I'm always cautious about advice offered by someone who wants to sell me something.

Cheers

[bovva66]

I made sure that I had the wheels rotated and balnced at last service, as i wanted to make sure i get similar wear over all tyres, but this another reason to make sure it is done with each service. Expensive lesson though.

[XtRmn8]

AlanD, yes you are correct I could do a front/rear swap (rotation) and eventually the tyres might wear down evenly. But it has come to a point where they are that noisy it start to get to you after spending 45-60min in the car each way to work every day.

Shame the offset and stud pattern are not the same as Falcon, I could have evened them out on my ute in a couple of minutes

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by AlanD

One of the problems with the alloy wheeled cars is that if you do not tell the service personnel where the security key nut is (assuming you have moved it from the spare wheel well for safekeeping) they ain't going to be able to get the wheels off.

Also I can see the brake pads on our car by viewing between the spokes, at least on the outer pads - and I'm guessing mechanics might do the same. Anyway I take the wear information with from the dealership with a grain of salt.

On the Territory at 60,000 km the brake pads were quoted at 30% remaining at front and 35% at rear with a recommendation for a change at the next service. When I got them off the remaining pad material on the fronts was close to 50% and on the rears close to 60% by a straight depth comparison with the brand new bendix pads I had sourced.

Tyres similarly. I fitted a brand new set of Forteras which have a tread depth of 8 mm above the depth indicators when new. the car was serviced after about 3,000 km from fitting - report from service centre was 60% tread remaining on front and 55% on rear. My measurement showed 7.75 mm of tread on all tyres above the depth indicators. : Pays to be careful and use some common sense.

In the case of the "Knobbly" tyres, if there is reasonable tread depth left (and being on the rear of the car there ought to be, if no rotation has occurred) I would effect a "rotation" and give them up to 2,000 km to see what happens. I'm suspecting that the higher friction levels on the raised portions of the tread maght get them smoothed out, given some travel. You could also try swapping the rear tyres side to side so that the raised patterns are reversed.

Remember here on an FWD a "rotation" simply swaps the tyres on each side, i.e. driver's rear to driver's front and viceversa - same on passenger side.

Don't know if NZ XR6's tyre "guru" is a friend, but I'm always cautious about advice offered by someone who wants to sell me something.

Cheers

The dealer's pad measurement may have been to the minimum pad depth (usually about 2mm), rather than the full thickness left on the backing plate. At the last service, I was told the pads were worn out when they were in fact down to the minimum depth.

In NZ, part of the warrant of fitness check (every 6 months for older cars) is to measure the tread depth. I once had my tyres gain 1 mm between checks!

I've been buying tyres from my tyre "guru" for 25 years. And I've learnt the hard way that he's usually right.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by AlanD

One of the problems with the alloy wheeled cars is that if you do not tell the service personnel where the security key nut is (assuming you have moved it from the spare wheel well for safekeeping) they ain't going to be able to get the wheels off.






Remember here on an FWD a "rotation" simply swaps the tyres on each side, i.e. driver's rear to driver's front and viceversa - same on passenger side.



Cheers

Couple of problems here. Firstly the rotation. Front wheel drive rotation isn't as you've described. The rears are crossed to the front. ie RHR to LHF and LHF to LHR. That's because the LHF is the drive wheel, therefore cops more punishment that the other 3. This is on the proviso that the tyres aren't directional.

Locknut key. I constantly have to search cars for their locknut key so I can do tyre work or even alignment adjustments. You'd be surprised where I've found them, without the owner even knowing they had locknuts on their cars.

The Op could put the tyres on the front to flatten them out over time, however not only would he/she experience the noise, he/she would also have a massive steering wobble. Don't know about anyone else, but stuffed if I'd put up with that.



Another little issue with dealers, is the majority of them don't have balancers. So in one sense, they're saving one headache with customers coming back complaining about the shakes.

It's recommended especially with front wheel drive cars, have the rotation/balance/alignment done every 10,000K. They are notoriously hard on the left front. So I'd really recommend, when ever your car is serviced with oils etc, book in for the tyre work for the next day. That way, it's all done and dusted.

OP. Not a problem helping out. Glad I could pin point the problem over the net.

[Rapscallion]

I think you'll find that tyre rotation is not part of a scheduled service. The dealer will only do it if asked. I have had mine rotated at every service as I learnt the hard way early on that not doing so will cost you money. My tyres are Bridgestone Potenzas and I have done 75,000 klms and they still don't need to be changed. I have never had tyre wear like this on any car I have had.

[XtRmn8]

I just hope others will find the info in this thread useful and can avoid the same issue.

On a side note I have always wanted to change the factory 17" rims to something bigger and was waiting until the tyres are due for a change. I did not expect these to last more then 60000kms, but if rotations was done every 10000kms I think they would have gone to 70000kms easy.

I have sourced some XR5 wheels and will hopefully get them on very soon. Now to find someone who sells springs for these cars

Cheers.

[NZ XR6]

Tyre rotation is included in the "A" service schedule in the service booklet that came with the car.

I'm sure that xtrmn8 will also find that his car needs a wheel alignment. There was absolutely no sign of wear like that on my rear tyres when I changed to 17" wheels after 25,000 km.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by XtRmn8

I have sourced some XR5 wheels and will hopefully get them on very soon. Now to find someone who sells springs for these cars
Cheers.

Eibach springs are what you want. Someone from the Fiesta forums recently posted here about a possible group buy - you might want to check that out.

[XtRmn8]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Eibach springs are what you want. Someone from the Fiesta forums recently posted here about a possible group buy - you might want to check that out.

Been told to stay away from Eibach due to quality issues but who knows. H&R have come highly recommended and they do a 40mm kit for the Mondeo.

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Couple of problems here. Firstly the rotation. Front wheel drive rotation isn't as you've described. The rears are crossed to the front. ie RHR to LHF and LHF to LHR. That's because the LHF is the drive wheel, therefore cops more punishment that the other 3. This is on the proviso that the tyres aren't directional.

.

Hi SVO,

Thanks for the "clarification", but I'm afraid that you are at odds with the manufacturer who quite clearly defines a "rotation" as maintaining the tyres on the same sides of the vehicle, whether or not they are directional - I don't believe the OE tyres on Mondeos are directional. I've owned five FWD vehicles now and if my memory serves me correctly the same advise regarding tyre rotation has been provided for every one of them. It also advises the rotation occur at intervals as low as 5,000 km, and, on checking the service schedule, as has been indicated earlier, tyre rotations are not a part of either an "A" or a "B" service, so owner's have this responsibility all to themselves.

I'm a little confused about the comment regarding the LFW being the driving wheel as well, since if this were the case I'm sure the vehicle would tend to veer when mobile.

Hopefully you will clarify this - thanks

Cheers

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by XtRmn8

Been told to stay away from Eibach due to quality issues but who knows. H&R have come highly recommended and they do a 40mm kit for the Mondeo.

And I thought Eibach made good stuff. But as you say, who knows.

Just watch what spring rates you get. I understand that Ford fit different front springs depending on the engine (petrol or diesel).

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Tyre rotation is included in the "A" service schedule in the service booklet that came with the car.

I'm sure that xtrmn8 will also find that his car needs a wheel alignment. There was absolutely no sign of wear like that on my rear tyres when I changed to 17" wheels after 25,000 km.

Hi NZ XR6,

'fraid not in the owners service manual that came with our Jan, 2008 build car, simply says "check tyres for uneven wear, cuts etc and report if found"

So I'm betting Oz residents are not getting "rotations" unless they specifically ask and then there will be an extra time cost.

Oh, I guess I should have made it clear that my pad % figures were calculated on the basis that the pad had worn to the depth of the pad groove (not sure if this is a wear indicator or to minimise squeal) At this point there is about 1mm of pad left, but I wouldn't let it get that far!!

I was pleasantly surprised about the even-ness of the wear too, identical on each pad with virtually no taper either down the length or across the width.

Cheers

[XtRmn8]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

And I thought Eibach made good stuff. But as you say, who knows.

Just watch what spring rates you get. I understand that Ford fit different front springs depending on the engine (petrol or diesel).

I have had two places tell me that Eibach used to be good while they ware made in Germany. Manufacturing has now been moved to China.

Both do a kit for the 2.3L Mondeo Sedan, so spring rates should be suited to the engine type and size. The H&R kit lower the height by 40mm and Eibach by 30mm.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Hi SVO,

Thanks for the "clarification", but I'm afraid that you are at odds with the manufacturer who quite clearly defines a "rotation" as maintaining the tyres on the same sides of the vehicle, whether or not they are directional - I don't believe the OE tyres on Mondeos are directional. I've owned five FWD vehicles now and if my memory serves me correctly the same advise regarding tyre rotation has been provided for every one of them. It also advises the rotation occur at intervals as low as 5,000 km, and, on checking the service schedule, as has been indicated earlier, tyre rotations are not a part of either an "A" or a "B" service, so owner's have this responsibility all to themselves.

I'm a little confused about the comment regarding the LFW being the driving wheel as well, since if this were the case I'm sure the vehicle would tend to veer when mobile.

Hopefully you will clarify this - thanks

Cheers

As for being at odds with the manufacturer, yes. Manufacturers don't pay for your tyres, so they don't really care. The rotation side of things has been like that for as many years as I can remember and has been effective just as long. Half the problem these days is, most places don't care what sort of mileage you get from your tyres. The sooner they're stuffed, the sooner you're digging in your pocket for newies.

As for the LHF being the drive wheel. Yes it does veer slightly. What it does is actually push the car up the camber of the road, to allow it to drive straight.


If you were to look at Caster readings taken from a front wheel drive car, you'd notice the caster is shorter on the left, compared to the right. So to help the car drive straight, the manufacturers make the LF the drive wheel.

Hope this clears it up a little bit more

[NZ XR6]

Hi SVO

We were doing well for a while, but now I'm a little confused. Caster is an angle, and is usually the same on both sides. So I'm not sure how it can be "shorter" on the left.

And I must be missing something here, but aren't both front wheels the driving wheels?

Thanks

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by XtRmn8

I have had two places tell me that Eibach used to be good while they ware made in Germany. Manufacturing has now been moved to China.

Both do a kit for the 2.3L Mondeo Sedan, so spring rates should be suited to the engine type and size. The H&R kit lower the height by 40mm and Eibach by 30mm.

Are the Mondeo springs made in China? Eibach supply a number of manufacturers in Europe, so I'd expect that they still make some product there. The really scary thing is that one day everything, including our cars, could be made in China!

Please let us know how you get on with the H&R springs - I'd like to lower my Mondeo one day. The only problem is I'd have to fit bigger wheels, and I actually prefer how it feels on 16s.

[Larso]

Found this on the tyrepower website not sure if it helps.
http://www.tyrepower.com.au/tyre_rotation.aspx

[AlanD]

Hi again SVO,

If I'm reading your posts correctly then you are saying that on an FWD car the correct rotation is RFW to LRW and vice versa and LFW to RRW and vice versa because owing to the LFW being the drive wheel this will wear faster?

That being the case then if you follow your plan, you will end up with two worn tyres on the LFW and RRW because these have been swapped on a continuing basis?

I would have thought that a better plan would be to swap LFW and RFW at say 5,000 km - then rear wheels to front and vice versa at 10,000 km ( doesn't much matter if you keep them on one side or switch sides as the wear will have been evened out at this point on the front), then at 15,000 km switch the front wheels again to even the wear in the next 5,000 km and at 20,000 km switch rears to front and vice versa. At this point the wheels will be where they started and wear should be even.(?)

Problem is that on the four previous FWD cars I have owned, the plan I followed was to not rotate and replace the front tyres when they were worn to the point where they were close to illegal. This plan caused me to have rear tyres that never needed replacement whilst I owned the cars and the front tyres generally required replacement at about 50,000 km or more from fitting. Of course you have to pay attention to both front and rear wheel alignment to get the rear wheel wear distances that I have experienced.

The advantage, from my point of view, is that I had only the cost of a pair of tyres to replace at any one time, rather than four if I had rigourously rotated the wheels (by any method). Eventually I might have had a four tyre cost, but the cars got traded before that occurred - as you point out on an FWD the rears are only keeping the rear up in the air, although I suspect spirited driving might have an effect.

I'm still having trouble, like NZ XR6, with the concept of (only) the LFW being a driving wheel, or are we mis-interpreting your information? I certainly paid for the RFW to be driven and there is a drive shaft along with CVJs connected to it. :

What are we missing?

Cheers

[svo supporter]

To clarify a few little things here. Firstly rotating a FWD.

The rear wheels are crossed when going onto the front. The front wheels are then moved straight back. In other words, the LHF goes to the LHR. The LHR rear then becomes the RHF. The RHF goes to the RHR and the RHR goes to the LHF.

You could just swap the front and rear tyres from side to side, but you'll end up in the same boat as the OP. ie Lumpy rear tyres. This has been shown and proven with this thread if you happen to read my postings and the OP's postings.

Caster. This is where the bottom balljoint is so many degrees forward of the top balljoint (or in this instance the imaginary line to the top balljoint).

Caster isn't surposed to be equal. In the case of rear wheel drive cars, if they were identical numbers, the car would drift left. In the case of front wheel drive cars, they have a lower number on the left, because if they had the higher number or equal, it would cause the car to drift right. So the push from the drive wheel actually pushes the car up the camber of the roadway, therefore allowing it drive in a straight line.

Of course there is other factors associated with getting a car to drive straight, but for the purpose of this thread, I won't go right into it.

Hope that clears a few more things up

[XtRmn8]

UPDATE.

Replacing the tyres has fixed the problem
Happy days and quiet motoring.