august 5 electricity increase

[burnz]

increase in price effective aug 5th

cents/KWH

current new
peak 40.04...44.11
shoulder 14.85...18.70
off peak 8.36...10.34
load1 8.36...9.02
load2 12.10...11.88
service charge per day (cents) 57.20...79.20

cant wait for carbon tax on top!!

[SEZ213]

Thieving snivelling ignorant scaremongering spankers...grrr...I think it's time to go rogue...

[ebxr8240]

Strange thing is ..
Soon it will be nr cheaper to buy a diesel Gen set
and do away with meter as tax agent...

[burnz]

i should say this is the letter i got today..AGL
apparently for NSW, don't know about other states.

[SEZ213]

Hrmphhh...we got slugged 15% last year by Origin...with apparently more increases coming...

I really would like to do away with that tax agent though...

[Scott]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Strange thing is ..
Soon it will be nr cheaper to buy a diesel Gen set
and do away with meter as tax agent...

I've been wondering same... might start collecting mufflers. Ultimately, the game is so well managed that whichever direction you turn you will be slightly worse off than the most profitable way they'd have you do it.

[ebxr8240]

Aha who's going to be the bloke as in the add that goes on tread mill
generator so the others can watch T.V ...???

[ltd]

Save power, burn a Greenie.
I hate the doomsayers, we'll soon be able to burn them for warmth as their scam is unravelling and will be gone faster than a set of chrome 22" rims at Bankstown.
What's funny though is that the morons who want us to pay double what we pay now for power, are the same ones saying that the seas are rising dangerously; yet most of them have bought and live in water front property. Hypocrisy thy name is..............................

[mondo_broady]

Originally Posted by ltd

Save power, burn a Greenie.
I hate the doomsayers, we'll soon be able to burn them for warmth as their scam is unravelling and will be gone faster than a set of chrome 22" rims at Bankstown.
What's funny though is that the morons who want us to pay double what we pay now for power, are the same ones saying that the seas are rising dangerously; yet most of them have bought and live in water front property. Hypocrisy thy name is..............................

dude, these price rises are NOT because of the greens or a carbon tax, they're supposedly because they say they need to upgrade the network infrastructure. meanwhile they turn gazzillion dollar profits?? it's corporate GREED, not environmentalists that are driving the price higher... directors of these companies are on millions but we meekly accept that?? the government of the day does nothing about it either as they reap the benefit. funny how no-one targets them or their corporate practices in the same way they kick the (at times over-zealous) environmentalists...

[snappy]

Originally Posted by mondo_broady

dude, these price rises are NOT because of the greens or a carbon tax, they're supposedly because they say they need to upgrade the network infrastructure. meanwhile they turn gazzillion dollar profits?? it's corporate GREED, not environmentalists that are driving the price higher... directors of these companies are on millions but we meekly accept that?? the government of the day does nothing about it either as they reap the benefit. funny how no-one targets them or their corporate practices in the same way they kick the (at times over-zealous) environmentalists...

What a load of B.S
There are many reasons why power has gone up in cost and you are no where near them .
Green energy is the single most reason why costs has increased ,solar rebates ,failed solar plants , wind farms .All those government green power systems these and those solar panels on roofs are subsidised by our power bills the cost to subsidise them and to sell the power back to the generators the costs are spread across everyone's bills , Thats why the subsidies are being wound back because the costs are enormous .
While power generators are investing nothing because they don't know where to invest . Carbon tax next week No carbon tax this has been going on for the last few years and power company's have done nothing because there is no certainty in the market . So we are growing but our power generation is not . So the market value is rising = ( supply and demand ) .
It has everything to with government .
The government are talking about shutting down coal fired generation but they wont build anything else because there is nothing else .
Wind farms don't work when the wind doesn't blow and cost a mint anyway
Solar costs even more and is just as useless
The green wont allow us to go hydro because we are not aloud to build dams . An there right against nuclear power which is the only cost effective solution . But it is still a stupid idea when compared against coal .
Even the government's own productivity commission has advised them to drop the the renewables targets of 5% by 2020 because the people cant afford it and the best bits is our renewables are not at even at 1% nationwide yet .
Its not Coperate Greed its Green Idealism
Its the goverment putting the prices up through there there power comission's not power companies .

[ebxr8240]

Umm ?? Up until recently in NSW the Gov owned the power stations...
Did NOTHING about it.. Yet still took billions away from suppliers..

[snappy]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Umm ?? Up until recently in NSW the Gov owned the power stations...
Did NOTHING about it.. Yet still took billions away from suppliers..

Add to that Nsw has the most expensive power in the country

[z80]

I'm still on 23c kw peak in Victoria....(when I actually use any from the grid that is.)

40c/kw sounds a bit over the top....I would definitely put a pile of solar panels on the roof with prices like that.

The payback time would be 3-5 years.


Hmmm...a new car or never ever pay for power ever in my life again?
($35k will get you a 7kw system)


Eat your hearts out guys....

[snappy]

z80
That's impressive but you can't eat credits , What good is it to you when your system is paid off and they are still issuing you credits not cheque's

[z80]

Originally Posted by snappy

z80
That's impressive but you can't eat credits , What good is it to you when your system is paid off and they are still issuing you credits not cheque's

You are mistaken, I chosen to have the account creditted...it's my choice.

With one phone call I can get a direct deposit into my bank account.

The government has been trying to tell everyone to avail themselves of the program...

Instead of doing it, it seems that people prefer to complain instead, about greenie bashing bull crap, then also blaming politicians and power companies.

Everyone has been warned, over and over again, that prices were set to rise dramatically.

You can see the bill above...it's showing about 300 bucks credit every quarter, and that doesn't show that we actually use a lot of power of which the cost is negated as well!


Like I said...never pay a cent for power...ever.

Which part of subsidy is it that people don't understand?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by z80

You can see the bill above...it's showing about 300 bucks credit every quarter, and that doesn't show that we actually use a lot of power of which the cost is negated as well!

It would be lovely to have a power bill that looked like that, no doubt. I have looked into solar but for a host of reasons have sat on the sidelines waiting for a "surer" offer, prices to normalise after the bonuses or a better technology to come to the fore.

If you don't mind:

What does your consumption look like?
What size system did you buy?
What does it generate?
How much did it cost?

Originally Posted by z80

Like I said...never pay a cent for power...ever.

Ambitious statement IMO.

[wulos]

At the start, people were complaining about the price of electricity being set by the government with the $$$'s going to the government.
The solution? or answer was to 'privatise' the resale side of the industry, introducing increased 'competition' into the sector by having another layer. The new 'middle man' that bought electricity off the generator, & sold it to the end consumer. ANY time you introduce another set of hands into the equation you are going to pay more.
The ironic point of all of this is where it is leading. There is a real upward push on the price of electricity, with any number of reasons / excuses being offered as explanations(carbon tax / aging infrastructure / mismanagement etc etc). The next step will be to introduce yet another tier into the costing structure by privatising the generators and the networks as well. Who do you think will pay for that???
Snappy - I would argue that in terms of reliability, and network complexity, NSW would rate quite well in terms of value for money(not just against other states, but also internationally as well). Apparently with the electricity resale selloff, I 'should' be able to buy my electricity from an interstate based supplier, so costs 'should' be the same...

[snappy]

Originally Posted by z80

You are mistaken, I chosen to have the account creditted...it's my choice.

With one phone call I can get a direct deposit into my bank account.

The government has been trying to tell everyone to avail themselves of the program...

Instead of doing it, it seems that people prefer to complain instead, about greenie bashing bull crap, then also blaming politicians and power companies.

Everyone has been warned, over and over again, that prices were set to rise dramatically.

You can see the bill above...it's showing about 300 bucks credit every quarter, and that doesn't show that we actually use a lot of power of which the cost is negated as well!


Like I said...never pay a cent for power...ever.

Which part of subsidy is it that people don't understand?

The subsidy is that you are being paid back at a higher rate then its worth . That higher rate is been slaped on everyone else's power bill .
This is why the solar rebate scheme was called a tax against the poor because they the poor could not afford the panels but where paying to subsidise the rich (people that could afford panels) .
So put simply everyone is paying a little bit higher bill to make your solar panels more affordable and to be paid off faster then usual .
Like it or lump it it is these scheme's and the goverment policies green or not that are getting in the way of power companies . Causing bills to rise .
The goverment tells the power companies what they can charge through regulation it not the other way around .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by snappy

The subsidy is that you are being paid back at a higher rate then its worth . That higher rate is been slaped on everyone else's power bill .
This is why the solar rebate scheme was called a tax against the poor because they the poor could not afford the panels but where paying to subsidise the rich (people that could afford panels) .
So put simply everyone is paying a little bit higher bill to make your solar panels more affordable and to be paid off faster then usual .
Like it or lump it it is these scheme's and the goverment policies green or not that are getting in the way of power companies . Causing bills to rise .
The goverment tells the power companies what they can charge through regulation it not the other way around .

This is one of the unintended consequences of the 20% renewable targets.

The proposition of "free" power is a lie, it is abhorrent and an insult.

I struggle with to keep my family fed, my pensioner dad struggles too, yet we're the majority of ordinary people without solar power having to compensate a few people and their solar panels - what to total disgrace.

[z80]

Originally Posted by snappy

The subsidy is that you are being paid back at a higher rate then its worth . That higher rate is been slaped on everyone else's power bill . .

They are not paying "a higher rate than what it's worth".
Simple fact it lets the power companies off the hook.
They have renewable targets to meet and I have provided the infrastructure payment.

I pay for the panels, the maintenance, the depreciation and the real estate to facilitate the plant.

And the transmission losses are virtually zero by comparison.

I am the power companies friend and business partner.

Originally Posted by snappy

This is why the solar rebate scheme was called a tax against the poor because they the poor could not afford the panels but where paying to subsidise the rich (people that could afford panels) ..

Nobody starves in Australia.

If you know of anyone let me know and i'll send meals on wheels around.

I've done volunteer work for them, they feed anyone.

Unless your definition of poor is that they simply cant afford solar panels?

(you could get panels on the roof for almost zero dollars, just the grant, with some offers in the past)

Originally Posted by snappy

So put simply everyone is paying a little bit higher bill to make your solar panels more affordable and to be paid off faster then usual .
Like it or lump it it is these scheme's and the goverment policies green or not that are getting in the way of power companies . Causing bills to rise .
The goverment tells the power companies what they can charge through regulation it not the other way around .

I think you are a bit off the mark, my power company actually chooses to pay MORE than the required amount...in fact 10% more.

66c a kw hour instead of 60c.

Poor people pay less for power, look at any power bill...discount for health card holders.

In Victoria its less than 15c/Kw with the pension discount, buying coal power.

Power company bills are not rising due to the solar programs, you are completely wrong on the scale of power generated by solar.

It's all about profits...power companies are all foreign owned and are milking the aussie wallets for all they can.

You can thank Jeff Kennet the Liberal for selling everything in Vic.

No use bashing the Greens, they would NEVER sell off state owned essential services infrastructure.
(It's in their party platform document)

[z80]

Originally Posted by Scott

Ambitious statement IMO.

No worries....you just sit tight and wait for the new technology that's right for you.

I'll just keep pumping my beautiful, clean, zero emissions electrons for everyone to consume.

In summer i generated 50kw a day, we consume 24 kw day.

This week we generated average of 24 kw a day...not much sunshine.

My 8kw system is at a worst case...kw for kw neutral.

I will never pay for power unless the feed in tariff is reduced to below 1:1.

And that ain't gunna happen.

To answer your question,my 8kw system cost about 35k all up, the rebate was for the first 1kw only.

Less than the price of a new Falcon, base model....I must be rich eh?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by z80

Nobody starves in Australia.

If you know of anyone let me know and i'll send meals on wheels around.

I've done volunteer work for them, they feed anyone.

Unless your definition of poor is that they simply cant afford solar panels?

Apparently people will freeze to death in their living rooms too according to the scare mongerers.

Ill take this we are too poor rubbish seriously, when I see(even in Melbourne's poorest suburb) all those 50in power hungry 500W plasmas outside on the nature strip for the next rubbish pickup.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by z80

No worries....you just sit tight and wait for the new technology that's right for you.

I'll just keep pumping my beautiful, clean, zero emissions electrons for everyone to consume.

In summer i generated 50kw a day, we consume 24 kw day.

This week we generated average of 24 kw a day...not much sunshine.

My 8kw system is at a worst case...kw for kw neutral.

I will never pay for power unless the feed in tariff is reduced to below 1:1.

And that ain't gunna happen.

To answer your question,my 8kw system cost about 35k all up, the rebate was for the first 1kw only.

Less than the price of a new Falcon, base model....I must be rich eh?

My comment about your statement of "never paying for electricity again... ever" being ambitious comes from years of watching "everything we know today being completely wrong tomorrow". We'll never need more than 640k, fuel will never hit $1/l and an annual electricty bill could never be as much as I paid for my house! We're born to break records and we can never say never.

We use quite a bit more power than you, and we use a lot through the day as my wife is at home raising our daughter and I work from home - the meter never stops spinning here. Add the complication of a tenant on our meter too and our consumption sits around 50kw/day and a bill of +$1000 per quarter.

I don't have the $35-$45k to go and buy a system that would offset all our power, but if I did I'd still be looking at a lengthy payback of 10 years based on todays rates. If I finance the purchase into a package that fits my family budget, the system would be lucky to keep pace with the interest it would generate, so again I would realise little change to my OPE's.

[mondo_broady]

Originally Posted by snappy

What a load of B.S
There are many reasons why power has gone up in cost and you are no where near them .
Green energy is the single most reason why costs has increased ,solar rebates ,failed solar plants , wind farms .All those government green power systems these and those solar panels on roofs are subsidised by our power bills the cost to subsidise them and to sell the power back to the generators the costs are spread across everyone's bills , Thats why the subsidies are being wound back because the costs are enormous .
While power generators are investing nothing because they don't know where to invest . Carbon tax next week No carbon tax this has been going on for the last few years and power company's have done nothing because there is no certainty in the market . So we are growing but our power generation is not . So the market value is rising = ( supply and demand ) .
It has everything to with government .
The government are talking about shutting down coal fired generation but they wont build anything else because there is nothing else .
Wind farms don't work when the wind doesn't blow and cost a mint anyway
Solar costs even more and is just as useless
The green wont allow us to go hydro because we are not aloud to build dams . An there right against nuclear power which is the only cost effective solution . But it is still a stupid idea when compared against coal .
Even the government's own productivity commission has advised them to drop the the renewables targets of 5% by 2020 because the people cant afford it and the best bits is our renewables are not at even at 1% nationwide yet .
Its not Coperate Greed its Green Idealism
Its the goverment putting the prices up through there there power comission's not power companies .

i'm not debating the cost of "going green". the blow out in the solar panel scheme was the take up was bigger than expected. it is a good idea, just a costly one but a damn sight cheaper than building and maintaining a new power station!! i too have doubts renewable can cater for all our needs.

the latest raft of increases had nothing to do with green energy. they were publicly announced as needed to upgrade infrastructure. the power companies were all government owned. a few years back (maybe as far as griener?) the govt demanded all it's public utilities be run as businesses and pay a dividend to the govt. there has been no real investment in infrastructure since then. some report commissioned by the ex-labor govt. recommended the rises for that purpose. my argument is they still post massive profits and they should pour that into capital expenditure.

don't assume because i feel that way i am in favor of the greens agenda. i'm not, although there is merit in some of the schemes IF managed properly. the insulation scheme could have and should have been if managed properly, same for the solar panels scheme.

[ebxr8240]

Yes the schemes were o/k ,,
BUT they should have activated work cover, dept of energy etc to check
the work..

[ltd]

Originally Posted by z80

You are mistaken, I chosen to have the account creditted...it's my choice.

With one phone call I can get a direct deposit into my bank account.

The government has been trying to tell everyone to avail themselves of the program...

Instead of doing it, it seems that people prefer to complain instead, about greenie bashing bull crap, then also blaming politicians and power companies.

Everyone has been warned, over and over again, that prices were set to rise dramatically.

You can see the bill above...it's showing about 300 bucks credit every quarter, and that doesn't show that we actually use a lot of power of which the cost is negated as well!


Like I said...never pay a cent for power...ever.

Which part of subsidy is it that people don't understand?

And the ill thought out scheme of rewarding 60c per kilowatt is costing state treasuries billions, and forcing the prices up. How does that relate to pollies? Well I dunno, maybe to make legislative decisions in this country you might need to be in government.
As for bashing green eco-terrorists; well who started all this green carbon malarkey?
With regard to blaming power companies, well that stems from the fact that since corporatisation of the power companies state governments have ripped billions in dividends each year, which has allowed the power infrastructure to decay.

Yes, you got in on a good scheme. However, as proven recently in NSW it's not sustainable. Barry O Farrell recently trounced the leftard scum that was NSW ALP in the election and he submitted financial models showing the scheme could only support paying 20c per kw/h.
That was the only sustainable level given the number of participants in the scheme and the amount of power generated. Now, all those with solar panels got up in arms about it based on what they'd no longer be paid. Now I wonder, would you still be shouting "free power" if you weren't to be compensated anywhere near as much; only a third of what you're being compensated now?

You see, those who couldn't afford solar panels are now paying more to allow people like you to be paid 60c per kw/h. On a large scale, this has meant prices keep rising and frankly, to gloat is insulting. In short, you got in on a scheme that was devised by corrupt politicians trying to placate the eco-terrorists who demanded action on something that doesn't exist. Hopefully Barry O has the balls to reduce the rebate to 20c so that you'll get paid less, but you'll still have free power. Over your lifetime, you should amortise the costs.

Sudszy, don't bother replying to my post with your drivel and govco propaganda as we will never see eye to eye on anything, and I find debating you is like masturbating with a cheese-grater; amusing but mostly painful.

[FGII-XR6]

so ultimatly those in the position to get solar are profiting from those least able to afford it. I am renting and will not be in a position to buy for some years due to things that happened in a bad chapter of my life. I can't get solar in a rental so I am paying higher power bills to provide $$$ to people who have the $ to spend on solar. the rich just get richer. I have no issue with people investing to get ahead but when it is at the expense of people who are currently struggling I find it to be less than ethical

[fmc351]

Without the solar scheme, both state and fed governments would need to invest larger sums to build new power plants to supply demand in several states, which would obviously be added to the cost of supplying electricity.

Its not like we have ample supply, some states are at capacity, and some beyond it which isnt good if you like having electricity at the flick of a switch. Without solar panels to supplement the current supply, you 'MIGHT' be paying $0.60c per kw and until new plants are built, you might be experiencing brown outs, or rationing similar to water restrictions. Power plants arent cheap no matter what they are using to generate electricity.

As an example, Victorias first coal fired plant in 20 yrs is estimated will cost $1.18 billion, up from its initial estimate of $750 million. The solar rebate has eased the crisis point in all states, not just one so its added costs are more reasonable in that.

Seems to me that if we need new plants, and these things take years to build, the current group of muppets arent the ones who should be blamed for the current predicament. Its the muppets who held power in the decade before who dropped the ball.

Its in the same way that solar hot water can ease the burden of demand on generation of electricity. The less we use it for things that can be run by other means, the more capacity we have for the things that can't be provided by other means.

/$0.02

[StrokedXT]

So glad Ive just left civilization for the bush, no more power or water bills ever again. Producing our own everything should make up for all my dirty carbon pollution from my toys.

[Franco Cozzo]

You know what would be a good idea? Force 10KW solar installs on every new house in legislation.

Whats an extra $50K on top of $400,000 when you mortgage up for 25 anyways? Might be a hell of a lot extra in interest but it gets you off the grid and would help hit carbon targets.

Eventually when I get to planning out my house and building the thing in the next 10 years, solar panels, water tanks, solar hot water are all on the cards I reckon.

Particularily the last few years in Victoria, you get a 40 degree day and the power goes out because every man and their dog turns on their air conditioning and the grid can't take it.