Buying an LTD - NL or BF - advice please!

[jb1990]

Hello to all you Ford enthusiasts!

I am looking at buying an LTD. I am vacillating between purchasing an immaculate, low mileage NL model or spending the extra and buying a 2007 BF LTD. A NL is about $5,000 or so and a BF is about $15,000 or so.

I do prefer the elegant, conservative shape of the NL and obviously there is a significant price differentiation between the two (I mean, who wants to be owing the bank anymore than ty have to and making large car repayments?). The reviews and comments I have seen seem to suggest the NL and BF were the best two made. Obviously the BF is going to be a fair bit more advanced technologically and with quite a bit more power.

Just a few extra questions about them too.

1) Would you be running 98 RON through them? I would assume so.
2) Would I be correct in guessing city driving would return 15L/100km ish?
3) I know the NL has a brilliant sound system with DSP. Does the BF too?
4) Which of the two models is likely to be more reliable mechanically?
5) Would the later BF cost much more to maintain than the NL?

I am looking for a very plush, soft ride with soft suspension. Obviously both would offer this - would one more so than the other? I am not familiar with the suspension make up of the two models.

I look forward to hearing some responses too. Any other information you could share would be greatly appreciated.

Justin

[FNQracing]

You're looking a opposite ends of the spectrum there.

The BF will be light years ahead in comfort, handling and just about everything. The NL is a bit of a blunt instrument, somewhat old school. Some might argue it will be more reliable due to its stone age mechanicals.

If you're really chasing that plush ride, the BF is the go. You'll be surprised how noisy the NL is in comparison.

Like I said, you're looking at such a wide gap between the two, both in price and design.

You can't really compare the two. It will come down to $$$.

[Ford_The_Win]

The NL will go, stop and handle like a bag of crap compared to the BF. The NL will be smooth but lots of road & wind noise compared to the BF. Plus it doesn't have the structural integrity or safety rating of the BF. I reckon the NL is better looking and nicer interior though, it seems more of a traditional full size luxury car with all the chrome trim. The BF is just an extended Falcon.

[paule11]

Go the BF world of difference between them

[AU Mont]

buy the NL for 5k.......... then couple months down the track find you need 1k spent on worn suspension. Then later on, couple power window motors die, then maybe gearbox starts slipping theres a 2k rebuild.

Then you find brakes need replacing, timing cover corroded, and climate control playing up

Then you wonder wtf did you buy old **** for and spend so much fixing it, that you couldve bought something newer & more refined in the first place, and that might actually still be worth something when it comes time to sell.

At the same time, dont think the buying the BF means trouble free motoring either, as those things have their own share of niggly problems.

15K can buy you a Spec B Subaru Liberty which is a mid size sedan with luxury features that can actually handle turn corners, along with good build quality

[mik]

get both cars checked out, sloppy or lack of maintenance can lead to expensive repair bills, didn't some of the nls ltds have air suspension? i have air suspension on my old lexus the shockers are a bit down on my old limo .................. air bags and shock come as one unit, $ 4000+ (parts only).
a bf with 6 speed auto if abused and in poor condition might cost some dollars too.
choose wisely grass hopper !

[smokin df ltd]

I own a df ltd and would advise to get the bf even though I have neverbeen in one. Some parts for the df dl can be cheap but some items I have had to buy second hand/refurbished and cost alot. And aftermarket ebay items are usually pretty average quality. I love the look of e series fords but 2 years and thousands spent on repairing old worn stuff I should of gotten a newer one. Depends if the newer models appeal to you or not, bf would be alot safer car though.

[RAPID_BA]

The older ltd is a great car. Try to find one in mint cond will be your challenge

[jb1990]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for your feedback. Obviously I can see the opinions tend to sway in favour of a BF for the added safety features and handling and general fact it is newer and will have less mileage.

I have to be honest and say I do not like the look of the BF LTD. They look like a stretched Falcon. For some reason after the DL Series Ford decided to do away with the conservative, elegant with that fugly mofo that is the AU. Absolutely hideous. I just find the DL to be so elegant and curvy - and I guess looks play a big part in the sort of car we choose.

I have found an absolutely mint 1996 silver DL with beige leather. 170,000km with full service history and always garaged by one owner. $7,500 is the asking price but my offer would be $5,000. I'm 23 and just starting out with Uni and work and everything so I don't want to loan myself out to the max with the bank. I could get a BF LTD for about $15,000 but not sure I want to make the extra $75 per week repayments. As I said I prefer the older DL style and I will need to borrow less, which in turn will save me money in repayments. Win win situation I figure.

[Gothefalcon]

I own a 98 NL Fairlane V8 and a 2007 BF2 Falcon Wagon 6 (& I prevoiusly had a 2006 BF1 Wagon)... I love going for cruises in my NL... it's an extreemly comfortable car.... but... it is getting harder to keep it in original condition as spare parts are getting harder to find. Not mechanical parts... but all the rest ! Brakes are one area which need constant attention... every 30,000K or so it needs new front pads and discs machined/replaced (brake pads are tiny on these models)... by comparison... I'd get at least 80,000 from a set on the BF's....
My 5.0 V8 costs not a lot more to run than the newer 4.0 I6... but spare parts for the V8 aren't as cheap as the I6's! Not that things fail regularly... as it's been a really reliable car... but when it's time to do some maintenance... it can cost a bit ! If you are looking at an I6 DL... then costs to maintain will be comparable to the BF's I6.
The NL's 4spd auto is cheap to maintain... as was the BF1's... however my BF2's 6spd auto is fairly costly to maintain by comparison !
The rear shocks, springs & bushes have been replaced once in the NL in 200,000Ks (shocks due again now).... it's arelatively simple job and not a great expense. But the BF's IRS bushes are notorious for failing (some more than others) and can be costly to repair (Luckily I don't have this problem in the Wagon)
As was said before... the two cars are worlds apart in many ways... I love the cabin space of the NL... it's a fairly quiet, comfortable car... and has never let me down (owned it since new).... But the BF's are more refined & their brakes are 10 times better !!!

Good luck with whatever you decide !

Dhru

[jb1990]

Hi Dhru

Thanks for your fairly detailed analysis there. Realistically, as far as my budget goes, I think a DL is the way to go. They are truly amazing to drive. So much room in the back and a fairly meaty V8.

With the fuel consumption, what would you get? I am guessing about 15L/100km in city driving. Most of my driving will be heavy, stop start city driving into and out of work in peak hour plus around the suburbs. Certainly with the odd cruise out on the open road of a weekend! Also, would it be best to be running 98RON in it? I assume so.

I have a 1999 Honda Legend. It is a beautiful car but it lacks the LWB rear leg room I want and it's only a V6. They really need a V8 for the size. It's the best first car out of any of my friendship group but I want something that's a bit more of a limousine instead of a large sedan and a nice V8! Trying to sell it could be hard - large, luxurious fuel guzzlers aint in fashion. Too many of us have lost our souls to political correctness nowadays. Well I'm not going to be one of these miserable eco jellybean bubble drivers thanks. Citizens Against Pleasure (CAP) can drop dead.

Justin

[RAPID_BA]

I sold a mint 95 LTD with 96000 original km, beige leather, sunroof, 5ltr v8, full exhaust and 3.45 gears in diff. All speakers upgraded including sub. Sold it for $5500. Everything worked perfect and leather was like new.

i seriously regret selling it, absolutely beautiful car. Im with the OP in that the b series LTD looked too much like the mainstream model.

[janddbone]

+1 for the DL

[jb1990]

You're nice and close I see Brett. Sandy Bay fellow here. =)

What's your ride?

[AU Mont]

wow have you driven the NL before, or is this all assumption?

then to knock the AU LTD which all who has driven &/or owned an AU swears by them being one of the best models ford ford australia has produced.

The NL V8 is an absolute slug. All you will get is a thirsty car which goes even slower than your V6 honda legend. Having owned an E-series before i can safely say good riddance!!! It was a nice looking car, but i gave it more love than it deserved.

If you dead set on a Ford long wheelbase car then looking at AUII LTD's for the best trade off between refinement, quality & price.

[AU Mont]

So your in Tassie?

Heres a link to what looks like a fantastic low km example of an AUIII Fairmont V8 Ghia. Just as luxurious as the LTD but a little lighter making it a bit more zippy and fuel efficient

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...13874383/?Cr=0

whatever your opinion of them, i can assure you it would change after a test drive

[janddbone]

Yeah mate, close indeed. We have a few here, but my daily is a ZL... My brother in law has an NA and he owned an AU Fairlane as well. If you want to catch up for a chat sing out...

[jb1990]

Point taken AU Mont. Yes I have driven an NL LTD - it was very nice. Sufficient enough level of power for me - I am a fairly conservative and sedate driver so I don't need something overkill on the power. It had a nice power to weight ratio and a nice (but not bogan) V8 burble.

I dislike the shape of the AU and perhaps we know different crowds. People I have spoken to who have owned them say they were unattractively styled, particularly in the interior with not a significant number of extra bells and whistles on them over a DL. The centre dashboard with the radio controls and buttons looks simply heinous.

I do agree that the MkII AU does look a lot better, particularly on the inside. Clearly they realised how ugly MkI was and did something about it.

[K_Man]

My experience is pretty limited with the lwb fords.....I've only had an NCII (not sure if NCIII was official? The very very last of them, 95 build) and what a beautiful car it was. Friends couldnt believe how smooth the old girl was, and that was only the 6 with close to 300k on the clock. Something about the older e series fairies/ltds that are just gold.

I wouldnt poo poo the 6, if you wanna be budget conscious maybe find one that has a tickford 6? Sportsman I believe it was. If you dont mind doing work yourself and dont flog them, they are pretty cheap to maintain.

EDIT- just saw your post about the AU lanes...look, to be honest my AU monty has pretty much the same features as my old fairlane (shares the same dash as the fairlanes), but I can say im not really left wanting for anything. Had it not been for bubs and needing a bit more ofa load lugger I would of got an AU fairlane. Its a LOT of car for really bugger all money nnowadays. The dash does grow on you I must admit. As for the styling....well, its all subjective. In the right colour I think they still look quite smart, but I dont mind the big yank tank look. Millenium ghia black out headlights look good on them too.

[data_mine]

maybe I can chime in.

I've got a DL LTD, and a BF (albeit a GT-P).
I enjoy both of 'em, but for completely different reasons. the LTD is slow, but comfy as. A good daily. The GT-P is (now) hard edged and not daily friendly, but goes turns and stops like I want on a track.

1) The GT-P gets BP Ultimate, the LTD get's whatever's cheap. I do run 98 through in every few tanks for the cleaning properties, but there's no performance benefit in doing so.

2) 15L/100 is about right (V8 DL LTD), the BF model will be better somewhat, but not hugely.

3) The stereos in both (stock) are rubbish, but slightly better in the LTD. I've completely replace the stereos in both, although I am finicky when it comes to sound.

4) Look after both, and they'll both be fine. Neither are terribly complicated.

5) Maintenance wise the LTD is cheap as - I can (and do) do it all myself. I do a lot of work on the GT-P myself, but things like suspension and tuning I outsource to pros.


Had I the choice/budget to get a BF LTD as a daily, I would over an older model for sure.

[Smoke Pursuit]

BF LTD for the win, quicker, better ride and steering and more techno!

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by jb1990

Hi Dhru

Thanks for your fairly detailed analysis there. Realistically, as far as my budget goes, I think a DL is the way to go. They are truly amazing to drive. So much room in the back and a fairly meaty V8.

With the fuel consumption, what would you get? I am guessing about 15L/100km in city driving. Most of my driving will be heavy, stop start city driving into and out of work in peak hour plus around the suburbs. Certainly with the odd cruise out on the open road of a weekend! Also, would it be best to be running 98RON in it? I assume so.

Justin

Justin, I have always run 98 octane fuel in the Fairlane... it keeps everything from "gumming up" and I get better economy too ! I find you save more on mechanical repairs/servicing etc.. than the extra you spend on 98. (per tank.. it's not a lot extra really !!)
I live in the Adelaide Hills... so I get around the 14.5 - 15L/100 mark.... but when I lived on the flat, I could easily get 13 - 13.5L/100. On the open road I get about 10 - 10.5L/100... but I have 3:45's in the diff... before I changed the ratio... I was getting 9.5L/100. I also have EBGT rims with 245's all round.... which makes the economy slightly worse too !
Drive em easy... and you won't use any more fuel than the I6... but start to "enjoy" the V8's torque.... and you'll use a fair bit more !

What's being said here about the AU's V8 being better than the NL/DL's.. is true.. more power, better breathing, for no real extra cost at the bowser... but, I only use my NL for cruising.... so more power doesn't bother me.
I could have bought a brand new AU Fairlane at the time I bought my NL (new)... My NL was a run-out model... and comparing the two back to back, at the time... I just couldn't bring myself to pay so much for something so ugly ! (just my opinion... ) so I bought the NL and never looked back !

All older 2nd hand cars will have there faults... so buying one in good nick for a relatively cheap price, just leaves a bit more wiggle room in the pocket for when something does happen ! Good luck with your purchase and I hope you enjoy your LWB Ford ownership !!

Dhru

[hagarone]

Try a du ltd the last of the real ones you'll love 'em!

[blackf6]

Zk for the win mate.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by AU Mont

15K can buy you a Spec B Subaru Liberty

nope, I definately don't recall that model LTD?

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by jb1990

Hello to all you Ford enthusiasts!

I am looking at buying an LTD. I am vacillating between purchasing an immaculate, low mileage NL model or spending the extra and buying a 2007 BF LTD. A NL is about $5,000 or so and a BF is about $15,000 or so.

I do prefer the elegant, conservative shape of the NL and obviously there is a significant price differentiation between the two (I mean, who wants to be owing the bank anymore than ty have to and making large car repayments?). The reviews and comments I have seen seem to suggest the NL and BF were the best two made. Obviously the BF is going to be a fair bit more advanced technologically and with quite a bit more power.

Just a few extra questions about them too.

1) Would you be running 98 RON through them? I would assume so.
2) Would I be correct in guessing city driving would return 15L/100km ish?
3) I know the NL has a brilliant sound system with DSP. Does the BF too?
4) Which of the two models is likely to be more reliable mechanically?
5) Would the later BF cost much more to maintain than the NL?

I am looking for a very plush, soft ride with soft suspension. Obviously both would offer this - would one more so than the other? I am not familiar with the suspension make up of the two models.

Are you going V8 or I6? If V8, personally I would go the Windsor in the NL over the OHC. (For one thing the spark plugs don’t snap off.)
If I6, it’s presumably a Tickford engine in the NL? I would go the DOHC.

Personally, I preferred the look of the NL, but these cars are what, a decade apart? So there will be a big difference, especially as the NL is pushing 20 years old.
But if your budget is limited, go the $5k car, just remember that like any old car it WILL require a lot of maintenance.

Wouldn’t worry too much about the sound system. A new cheapie from JB’s is probably better than something nearly 20 years old.
As for petrol, in the Tickford I6 you’d probably need 95, otherwise regular ole ULP is fine, save your money for more important stuff.

[janddbone]

E series LWB were the best riding models with the SLS.

[XR6T0Y]

K go

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...2096687/?Cr=17

[pmacc]

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

K go

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...2096687/?Cr=17

I know your looking at the LWB barges but what about a late BA OR BF Fairmont Ghia. Its going to cheaper first off and its lighter so it will quicker and cheaper on fuel (the i6 would be quicker than the nl) and it will have most if not all the toys the Fairlane will have. Your probably going to be driving most of the time so you wont notice the extra leg room in the back except when you have to park the thing and the falcon body aint exactly tight in the back or front.

[Paull]

If you are wanting value for money and are happy with this era of car, then the DL LTD is the way to go. If you want a car that is 10 years younger, far more advabced, then the BF is the one.

My second last car was an NL 5.0 Fairlane Concorde: very nice car all round and great to drive. Certainly a great design car but the issue was that it had 285,0000 kays when I bought it and 3150000 when sold. Within that time, I would have spent about $4000 + on it, all on the items that AU Mont has suggested (all work was done by myself so it would have been a lot more expensive if done by others). Avrage fuel consumptionwas 13 L/100 kays

A friend of mine has a late '98 DL LTD. It has 55,000 kays on it and it is a beautiful car. However, since taking ownership (about 9 months ago), he has had to spend money on the cooling system, brakes (inclusive of the air ride system), very small amounts of rust and other small issues. His average fuel consumption is 12.5 L/100 kays. Given the option of a DL over the BF, on a limited budget, I would choose the DL.

I currently have an AU LTD 5.0. Reasonably low kays when bought (115,000, now at 127,000) and the differences between the NL and AU are incredible! The AU LTD is an excellent car all round: far better finish inside and out and a better 5.0 litre engine. This car costed me $10K but I believe that there are others up to half of this price. Given the choice, I would buy the AU over any NL or DL. This car gets about 11.5 L/100k.

Lastly, the cabbie I use, used to have a BA Fairlane with the 5.4 litre V8. Having been in that car on many occasions, if funds could have extended to the BF when I was looking (at teh AU), I would certainly have bought one. The issue here is that as there are very few around, the prices (when I was looking) were all around the $25 to $35K mark.