Apple ordered to pay Ireland $19 billion in back taxes, European Commission rules...

[Trump]

This is why the EU is fundamentally wrong and needs to be abolished:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/wo...30-gr4xw8.html

Not many will dispute that Apple needs to pay its fair share of tax as a corporate citizen, but the way the EU went about it is incompatible with national sovereignty.

[Hardtopxb]

Yes. I think they (The EU) pushed the boundaries a bit.. Although some of these big Corporations need a kick up the Khyber pass.

[MethodX]

US invasion of Ireland now?

[mik]

Hmm theres no flies on Apple , theyve been getting away with blue murder as far as tax goes and come out with this statement .

" Apple warned the decision would "have a profound and harmful effect on investment and job creation in Europe".

In other words , lets us have our truck loads of cash or we will start sacking people .

[Bill M]

With cash reserves of over 200 billion 14 billion is not too much of a hit for Apple.
With the big corporations paying their fair share of tax $$$ around the world then there will be less gouging of the pockets of the general paye contributors.
The notion of having concern for multinational giants who exploit their host country is amusing

[chevypower]

Tax them all you want, but don't be fooled into thinking they won't pass those tax increases onto you, the consumer. If you think they are just going to take it out of their gross profit, and keep the sales prices the same, then you're an idiot. $19 Billion is a lot for a country like Ireland too.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Tax them all you want, but don't be fooled into thinking they won't pass those tax increases onto you, the consumer. If you think they are just going to take it out of their gross profit, and keep the sales prices the same, then you're an idiot. $19 Billion is a lot for a country like Ireland too.

Prices go too high...company goes broke. Simples.
It's not that there aren't alternatives out there.

Apple, Google, Amazon and others are serial economic rapists. Every cent they don't have to pay means it then comes out of our pocket.

[Bill M]

No one wants to tax companies out of existence so to state that is misleading, note that is is stated fair share. We squandered the revenue from the mining boom and now the treasurer is warning of future revenue shortfalls, either the multinationals pay their fair share or the services we have taken for granted in the last 50 years get cut.
This is not just the dole but hospitals and emergency services that we all want to be at our beck and call. The corporate and business world co-exist with society and therefore have to stump up for the services they use

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Tax them all you want, but don't be fooled into thinking they won't pass those tax increases onto you, the consumer. If you think they are just going to take it out of their gross profit, and keep the sales prices the same, then you're an idiot. $19 Billion is a lot for a country like Ireland too.

Chevypower, there is more to the world than just cheap consumer goods prices. I would rather have a first class health system accessible to all rather than "cheap" iphones.
Idiot indeed!

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Chevypower, there is more to the world than just cheap consumer goods prices. I would rather have a first class health system accessible to all rather than "cheap" iphones.

Idiot indeed!

Then voluntarily pay more into the system you supposedly support. I don't see any leftists making voluntary tax donations. Oh and consumers are price conscious, that's why they are willing to accept a Chinese, Thai, or Mexican built product for a lower price. So, these high corporate taxes that you think are "helping" the economy, really aren't. If manufacturing stayed affordable and local, you wouldn't have to have so much tax revenue to pay for the dole and subsidies. If you don't like these big corporations, don't buy their products! Nobody forces you to buy phones, computers, etc. Buying products already helps the economy, taxing it more just deters people from doing it as much. It's the most basic economics 101 there is. Glad you admit to being an idiot. Haha


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[Bill M]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Then voluntarily pay more into the system you supposedly support. I don't see any leftists making voluntary tax donations. Oh and consumers are price conscious, that's why they are willing to accept a Chinese, Thai, or Mexican built product for a lower price. So, these high corporate taxes that you think are "helping" the economy, really aren't. If manufacturing stayed affordable and local, you wouldn't have to have so much tax revenue to pay for the dole and subsidies. If you don't like these big corporations, don't buy their products! Nobody forces you to buy phones, computers, etc. Buying products already helps the economy, taxing it more just deters people from doing it as much. It's the most basic economics 101 there is. Glad you admit to being an idiot. Haha


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I am not into name calling and your argument is weak. Go on supporting the big corporates like a good consumer. With your "basic economics" simplicity it is back to school for you.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I am not into name calling and your argument is weak. Go on supporting the big corporates like a good consumer. With your "basic economics" simplicity it is back to school for you.

How is your post any better than name calling? Furthermore, you fail to address how the Irish government is justified in demanding $19 Billion in taxes from Apple. Can you run some basic numbers in your head? In a country of 4.5 Million, are you telling me that Apple sold more than $4100 in net profit per person (including the poor, elderly, and babies)? Did you buy $4100 worth of goods from Apple last year? I sure as hell didn't. I'm just talking about revenue, not gross profits, definitely not net profits. Even if it was net profit, surely you aren't expecting them to pay 100% of that into government taxes? Seriously, is this just a little over your head? Just try to use SOME common sense, please! It just comes across like you have a simple philosophy to screw all corporatikns with heavy taxes. Yet I bet you wonder why companies like Ford are leaving Australia, and putting people out of work. Cos they're just big meanies right? Ya know what if you can do it better, you start a company, make a better product for a lower price. Create thousands of jobs, and pay everything YOU take in to pay for the healthcare you demand for everyone.




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[Maka]

1in 10 jobs in Ireland is the result of those tax arrangements atm, Apple will be joining with Ireland in appealing the EU decision which Brussels is calling economic aid to m/c's, the m/c's tax rate is lower than Ireland's unemployed / carers actual tax rate afaik.

This will be a test case, the outcome will reverberate.... Is 1 in 10 jobs enough of a return? Mmm.... Not sure about that.

cheer's, Maka

[Bill M]

Please read up on this issue as you seem uninformed as to who is doing what to whom in regards to EU Ireland and Apple
The Corporate Tax Haven issue is bigger than just the EU and Apple and has been in the news often recently. Note no petty name calling in these posts!

[Maka]

Irelands special tax rate for m/c's between 2004 - 2014 was under 1%, all of Apples EU profits were funnelled to Apple Ireland then payments was sent to the parent company's R&D dept back home in the US - From WSJ.

Ok, didn't Ireland nearly go under in the GFC? It would make sense to pass extraordinary tax laws to extricate itself from its GFC predicament for the good of the country. Mmm, tough one to be fair (except for the funnelling, please explain?) I hope cool heads ultimately prevail moving forward, its going to be a tough battle in the courts Imo.

cheer's, Maka

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Furthermore, you fail to address how the Irish government is justified in demanding $19 Billion in taxes from Apple.

The article states 'Ireland has been ordered to recover the unpaid tax but the country says it doesn't want the money'.

The European Commission made the ruling, not the Irish Gov.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Tax them all you want, but don't be fooled into thinking they won't pass those tax increases onto you, the consumer. If you think they are just going to take it out of their gross profit, and keep the sales prices the same, then you're an idiot. $19 Billion is a lot for a country like Ireland too.

I must be the only business around that absorbs transaction fees, its something like 1.26% of a transaction for a visa or mastercard transaction and 26 cents for a debit card.

I don't set EFTPOS minimums like other places and I wear the transaction fees, its a convenience to me for you to pay by card and its worth the percentages I lose.

Same thing with pricing, I just work on margins, if I can get it from my supplier for less you pay me less.

Sure its not the smartest business decision but people say nice things about me to their friends and I sleep well at night

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

The article states 'Ireland has been ordered to recover the unpaid tax but the country says it doesn't want the money'.

The European Commission made the ruling, not the Irish Gov.

If they don't want the money I'll send Apple my bank account details and I'll look after it for them

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I must be the only business around that absorbs transaction fees, its something like 1.26% of a transaction for a visa or mastercard transaction and 26 cents for a debit card.

I don't set EFTPOS minimums like other places and I wear the transaction fees, its a convenience to me for you to pay by card and its worth the percentages I lose.

Same thing with pricing, I just work on margins, if I can get it from my supplier for less you pay me less.

Sure its not the smartest business decision but people say nice things about me to their friends and I sleep well at night

No you're not the only one who absorbs credit card transactions, though many businesses offer a discount for a cash deal. The market won't support a surcharge for credit card transactions. You provide it not because you're generous, you do it because you need it to survive in the current market. That's driven by competition. Your competitors do it to stay competitive, so you have to also. Increased costs drive prices up for the consumer, competition drives them down. Two forces working simultaneously. But you can never sell bellow your costs. So if we can drive costs down and keep competition alive, it's a double win for the consumer.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by chevypower

The market won't support a surcharge for credit card transactions.

I don't know how it works over there but all major Airlines and other multinational companies here all have Debit/Credit fees.

The debit card fee is usually lower than a credit card.

[Jastel]

While I agree some tax concessions are sensible for mining companies, construction etc where thousands of jobs are created and something is actually produced/built...the Apples, Ubers, Air BnB and other tech company's of the world who produce nothing and no (or few) jobs in that location do not deserve similar lenient treatment for what amounts to money laundering and tax avoidance schemes.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by chevypower

No you're not the only one who absorbs credit card transactions, though many businesses offer a discount for a cash deal. The market won't support a surcharge for credit card transactions. You provide it not because you're generous, you do it because you need it to survive in the current market. That's driven by competition. Your competitors do it to stay competitive, so you have to also. Increased costs drive prices up for the consumer, competition drives them down. Two forces working simultaneously. But you can never sell bellow your costs. So if we can drive costs down and keep competition alive, it's a double win for the consumer.

No they don't they all have eftpos minimums to promote people paying in cash for obvious reasons and they pass on bank fees to the customer

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If they don't want the money I'll send Apple my bank account details and I'll look after it for them

They want to keep Apple, and the other big tech companies happy, and keep them in Ireland - keeping people employed, which is worth more to them than the tax amount they would collect.

While over there recently, our tour guide in Dublin mentioned that currently IT and related fields are their single biggest export and source of revenue.

Due to the famines, and emigration, the Irish population dropped from an estimated 9-10 million, to about 6 million currently - though it is slowly climbing.

As a result, they have a very young workforce by global standards, and though their wages are quite high, this is still attractive to these big companies, and was actually mentioned by the CEO of Facebook, if I remember correctly, as being one of the deciding factors in them basing their EU operations in Ireland.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by chevypower

How is your post any better than name calling? Furthermore, you fail to address how the Irish government is justified in demanding $19 Billion in taxes from Apple. Can you run some basic numbers in your head? In a country of 4.5 Million, are you telling me that Apple sold more than $4100 in net profit per person (including the poor, elderly, and babies)? Did you buy $4100 worth of goods from Apple last year? I sure as hell didn't. I'm just talking about revenue, not gross profits, definitely not net profits. Even if it was net profit, surely you aren't expecting them to pay 100% of that into government taxes? Seriously, is this just a little over your head? Just try to use SOME common sense, please! It just comes across like you have a simple philosophy to screw all corporatikns with heavy taxes. Yet I bet you wonder why companies like Ford are leaving Australia, and putting people out of work. Cos they're just big meanies right? Ya know what if you can do it better, you start a company, make a better product for a lower price. Create thousands of jobs, and pay everything YOU take in to pay for the healthcare you demand for everyone.




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I agree with your arguments, but doesn't Apple Ireland pay the US next to nothing for their iPhones then on sell them to Apple Australia for near retail prices so they pay no real tax here? That's why they'd be paying $19 billion?

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I agree with your arguments, but doesn't Apple Ireland pay the US next to nothing for their iPhones then on sell them to Apple Australia for near retail prices so they pay no real tax here? That's why they'd be paying $19 billion?

Correct, they only pay tax on the difference between what Apple AU pay Ireland for the phone and what it is sold to the AU consumer which is something like 2 bucks.


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[mik]

Originally Posted by Feathers

They want to keep Apple, and the other big tech companies happy, and keep them in Ireland - keeping people employed, which is worth more to them than the tax amount they would collect.

While over there recently, our tour guide in Dublin mentioned that currently IT and related fields are their single biggest export and source of revenue.

Due to the famines, and emigration, the Irish population dropped from an estimated 9-10 million, to about 6 million currently - though it is slowly climbing.

As a result, they have a very young workforce by global standards, and though their wages are quite high, this is still attractive to these big companies, and was actually mentioned by the CEO of Facebook, if I remember correctly, as being one of the deciding factors in them basing their EU operations in Ireland.

19 billion sounds like an awful lot of happiness, how happy do you want to keep them .

[Bill M]

This is a good read. Whether or not Apple wins the game will change with the spotlight being shone on previously little publicised deals, which is a good thing.

Why is the European Union going after Apple for $14 billion in unpaid taxes?

Consider this: In 2014, the corporate giant paid just $50 in tax for every million it made selling iPhones and iPads to most of the world outside America.

That's a tax rate of just 0.005%. Yes, you read that correctly.

So how was that allowed to happen?

Apple has funneled most of its profits from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and India through Ireland for decades. Nothing unusual in that. Others do it too.

But under deals the company struck with the Irish government as far back as 1991, it was allowed to split these profits between its Ireland branch and an Apple head office that existed only on paper.

Apple paid the standard Irish tax rate on profits booked to its Ireland branch. Those it allocated to the phantom head office were tax free, because under Irish law it was then considered a "stateless company."

Guess where most of the profits went?

In 2011, Apple Sales International made 16 billion euros in profits. Less than 50 million euros were allocated to the Irish branch. The rest went to the "head office," out of reach of any tax authority.

It was an arrangement that also suited the Irish government.

Ireland has set its corporate tax rate at 12.5%, one of the lowest in Europe, to attract big companies to the country.

Apple (AAPL, Tech30), Google (GOOGL, Tech30), Facebook (FB, Tech30), eBay (EBAY) and Twitter (TWTR, Tech30) have all set up their EU headquarters in Ireland.

And with them came the jobs. Apple employes 6,000 people in Ireland, many of them making iMacs at a factory in Cork -- once a deprived city in the south of Ireland. Apple says it is the biggest private employer in the city.

EU states can set their own rate of tax. But European officials say Ireland's arrangements with Apple gave the company such a huge financial advantage over its competitors that it constituted illegal state aid.

Apple doesn't want to pay the tax even though the $14.6 billion, plus interest, it might have to repay constitutes just 5% of the $231 billion in cash it has on its books.

Ireland doesn't like the ruling either, calling it an "encroachment" into its sovereignty. The country said Apple has paid what it owed in Ireland.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/30/tech...uling-numbers/

[Mercury Bullet]

Meanwhile our kids are forced to buy ipads for school.

Where a much cheaper android tablet will do the job just as well if not better.
But no...kiddies must have ipads.

So I have to pay income tax and now apple tax?

We the taxpayer are covering for billions that apple (and others) take out of this country.

I applaud the EU for taking up the fight.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Meanwhile our kids are forced to buy ipads for school.

Where a much cheaper android tablet will do the job just as well if not better.
But no...kiddies must have ipads.

So I have to pay income tax and now apple tax?

We the taxpayer are covering for billions that apple (and others) take out of this country.

I applaud the EU for taking up the fight.

Whilst I agree with your post in general, the EU didn't do this to "stick it up Apple". They did this to assert their power and dominance, to justify and legitimise it's existence in the wake of the Brexit vote.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Meanwhile our kids are forced to buy ipads for school.

Where a much cheaper android tablet will do the job just as well if not better.
But no...kiddies must have ipads.

So I have to pay income tax and now apple tax?

We the taxpayer are covering for billions that apple (and others) take out of this country.

I applaud the EU for taking up the fight.

That's your school making that decision which is easy enough to change....