Sydney's M7 - its first fatality

Keepleft · 26-12-2005, 10:30 AM

Per news, a 12 year old boy, a passenger in a 4WD which rolled 30 or so metres down an embankment.

By chance anyone know the precise location?

26-12-2005, 10:42 AM

I could be heading to Parra today, I'l let you know of any marks and gouges on the road

My thoughts and prayers to such a young life lost

26-12-2005, 10:46 AM

from news.com.au

The vehicle lost control on the southbound lanes of the M7 near the Elizabeth Drive interchange and hit an embankment before rolling a further 30m and landing on its roof.

HOON69 · 26-12-2005, 10:54 AM

saw this on the news not good :(

had one here in brissy yesterday only 4 blocks from my house
NA fairlane split in two 2 girls died at the scene
def speed related..
and at xmas :(

Keepleft · 26-12-2005, 11:48 AM

Hoon - Which service & when? Not on Sky or Ten/NRTV

HOON69 · 26-12-2005, 11:55 AM

the one in brissy was def on the news dunno if it reached other states news im sure it had to of,as its xmas road toll etc

happened in southern brissy outskirts to us brissy ppl's thats south brisbane aka exact location was Kingston Road UNDERWOOD just down from bunning and big w.

was a huge acco was def speed related as the car was in pieces..

Quote:

Two women killed in smash
From: AAP

December 25, 2005

TWO women died when the car they were travelling in smashed into a power pole in Brisbane.
Police said the accident happened about 4.30am (AEST) today when the Ford Fairlane sedan hit a traffic light and then smashed into a power pole at the intersection of Kingston Road and Ferguson Street at Underwood.

The two women passengers in the back of the car died in the accident.

The driver and the front seat passenger have been transported to hospital. Both men appear to have sustained only minor injuries.

Five people have now died on Queensland's roads during the Christmas period, which began on Friday morning.

Keepleft · 26-12-2005, 12:13 PM

The M7 crash now hit the news, a night crash. Might advocate additional side-edge barrier with a view of preventing another vehicle going down the embankment.

If the road is found unsafe at this point in this regard, the family, can, if they seek a legal team could sue for damages, this doesn't help bring back the kid, but will motivate an engineering solution which will help prevent another.

One needs to study the location.

XR82GO · 26-12-2005, 12:28 PM

i came up elizabeth drive last night just after it had happened and there were fire brigades..ambulances and police cars everywhere....didnt look good at all...elizabeth drive was blocked east bound...i couldnt see the 4x4

OLDFORDNUT · 26-12-2005, 01:48 PM

the one in Brisbane had cops and others in tears ,nasty nasty driver was really going hard,skid marks were 150metres long before rear door contacted steel power pole crushing back where girls were sitting.

Bobman · 26-12-2005, 02:26 PM

two girls 19 and 20 wasn't it?
and It looked like an EA Fairmont or similar...
The policeman even said "why are people allowed to buy cars that goto 200"

LUXO_8 · 26-12-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicked

two girls 19 and 20 wasn't it?
and It looked like an EA Fairmont or similar...
The policeman even said "why are people allowed to buy cars that goto 200"

was an NA fairlane aparenty

deesun · 26-12-2005, 04:24 PM

I've just got back from Goulburn and went M7 I would have taken notice had I known. Great road and I can only imagine something drastic going wrong for that to happen. But any road is dangerous if not used properly,4WD's and embankments don't exactly mix very well as 4WD will roll easier than car. Still I feel for the family especially at this time of year.

Keepleft · 26-12-2005, 07:04 PM

M7 crash - It appears the vehicle went in between the two bridges forming an overpass (one north bridge, one south bridge - whilst driving south from a visit to the NSW Central Coast) and down he embankment onto the road below.

An issue arises if there is any or appropriate median barrier, if cable design, whether it is three cable or four system (four is used for motorway category), and if those cables are installed linear-without crossing over each other (Australian designed Flexfence) or if the cables were interwoven two at a time for a twin rung install (UK's Brifen bearing World Patent).

One is better at arresting vehicles from my experience.

Or if the scene is Jersey or steel guardrail or if barrier is intalled in the median at that point, as it is elsewhere.

gtfpv · 26-12-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

M7 crash - It appears the vehicle went in between the two bridges forming an overpass (one north bridge, one south bridge - whilst driving south from a visit to the NSW Central Coast) and down he embankment onto the road below.

An issue arises if there is any or appropriate median barrier, if cable design, whether it is three cable or four system (four is used for motorway category), and if those cables are installed linear-without crossing over each other (Australian designed Flexfence) or if the cables were interwoven two at a time for a twin rung install (UK's Brifen bearing World Patent).

One is better at arresting vehicles from my experience.

Or if the scene is Jersey or steel guardrail or if barrier is intalled in the median at that point, as it is elsewhere.

on the news they showed a fence similar to a pool fence or gate . looked very innapropriate .

Keepleft · 26-12-2005, 07:35 PM

The 'pool fence' you see simply runs between the two bridge overpass left-right across the median itself so to describe. It will appear square-on to approaching traffic, it is not intended for vehicle arresting, this falls to median barrier installed on approach off the right lane, per above post squire.

The job of the fence you see in this install is soley to prevent pedestrians running up onto the M7 roadway. It is sufficient for this install purpose and is used on all similar twin-bridge designs in NSW and Interstate for that function, but is intended to be complemented by other median barrier, installed off the right lanes and designed for use with vehicle traffic.

It is the median barrier itself, or lack therof in any crash where a vehicle enters the median, such as this, that comes into question.

RED_EL_XR8 · 27-12-2005, 01:45 AM

Driving back through that same M7 interchange tonight on the way back from WSID, you have to ask the question! How?

Even with a greatly excessive speed, a skilled stuntman with a star covered helmet would be lucky to pull off the same manouvre!

HOON69 · 27-12-2005, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholas

the one in Brisbane had cops and others in tears ,nasty nasty driver was really going hard,skid marks were 150metres long before rear door contacted steel power pole crushing back where girls were sitting.

you shoulda seen the scene after it was all cleared was def something involving speed,driver has been questioned too.

**Stav** · 27-12-2005, 08:06 AM

I dont understand why people dont get it? If your really tired...dont drive. If you must get on a motorway dont go so fast and minimise lane changing. If lane changing be cautious.Stay left.Be aware even if you must double or triple check.Sometimes in certain light not everyones eye catches a car next to them so dont change.

Also..it should be compulsory for everyone to pass a licence test of defensive driving ..including myself.
If some of these rules were more prominent then maybe less people end up in that way.

It is very sad for that 30 year old mum with the 4 wd to lose her 12 yo boy.Apparently it rolled over.What are people doing with these cars in suburbia?

HOON69 · 27-12-2005, 08:08 AM

Quote:

It is very sad for that 30 year old mum with the 4 wd to lose her 12 yo boy.Apparently it rolled over.What are people doing with these cars in suburbia?

it is never about the vehicle mate,and theres a thread about 4wds already.

never the cars fault that a inexperienced 4wd owner couldnt handle their car,and thats if it was that.

jabba · 27-12-2005, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

you shoulda seen the scene after it was all cleared was def something involving speed,driver has been questioned too.

I would hate to be his(driver) shoes at the moment. He will go for a row of shyte cans, and he rightfully deserves so.... In accident such as this the driver will more likely be charged with manslaughter. in my opinioun the driver of the car was well aware of what he was doing and should be charged with murder and be made an example off to get the point across to the younger drivers the speed kills and if you fu(k up you going to cost you your life, whether in death of jail time.... I know my view is harsh and unforgiving, but sometime ou have to be cruel to be kind. That is life, like it or not.

jabba · 27-12-2005, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

It is very sad for that 30 year old mum with the 4 wd to lose her 12 yo boy.Apparently it rolled over.What are people doing with these cars in suburbia?

What the hell has it got to do with the type of car she is driving. Did you know the Territorty is classed as a 4X4, and she went of and embankment so I doute that whether or not she was driving a sedan it would of saved her life

OLDFORDNUT · 27-12-2005, 09:10 AM

when my Daughter was in crash that killed her best friend,they were in back begging their male driver (arseh$le) to slow down,he was holding his VL commodore peddle flat to the floor on suburban main rd.i just wish it had been him killed as with this one in Brisbane the other night,never seems to be the driver funny that.

HOON69 · 27-12-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

I would hate to be his(driver) shoes at the moment. He will go for a row of shyte cans, and he rightfully deserves so.... In accident such as this the driver will more likely be charged with manslaughter. in my opinioun the driver of the car was well aware of what he was doing and should be charged with murder and be made an example off to get the point across to the younger drivers the speed kills and if you fu(k up you going to cost you your life, whether in death of jail time.... I know my view is harsh and unforgiving, but sometime ou have to be cruel to be kind. That is life, like it or not.

Fatal NZ crash 'driver' detained in Brisbane
From:
By Cameron Atfield

December 27, 2005

A NEW Zealand man allegedly involved in a fatal Christmas Day car crash that claimed two lives was last night detained by police at Brisbane International Airport.
The man, 20, was allegedly driving the vehicle in which 19-year-old Mandy Lea Morrell and 20-year-old Casey Debbie Jones were killed in an horrific crash at Underwood.

The man was last night charged by police with two counts of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death and is due to face Beenleigh Magistrate's Court this morning.

Earlier yesterday, the Queensland Government said it would consider tougher penalties for traffic offences after a horror start to the holiday period, which resulted in Queensland leading the national road toll.

Premier Peter Beattie, Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson and Police Minister Judy Spence made a joint appeal yesterday for Queenslanders to take more care on the roads.

Mr Beattie said the Government was prepared to be "as tough as it takes" to bring the state's road toll back under 300.

Advertisement:
"Frankly we are prepared to go to Cabinet with tough new penalties.

"Anything over 300 is much too high . . . we can't allow it to continue."

"We'd prefer not to increase the penalties because we believe they are very strong at the moment (but) if we continue at the current level . . . we'll have to consider extra penalties," he said.

Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson said the road toll was especially frustrating for police and emergency services because every road death was avoidable.

Police Minister Judy Spence said an additional 62 police were on Queensland roads during the holiday period and had reported some worrisome trends.

RED_EL_XR8 · 27-12-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

Fatal NZ crash 'driver' detained in Brisbane
From:
By Cameron Atfield

December 27, 2005

A NEW Zealand man allegedly involved in a fatal Christmas Day car crash that claimed two lives was last night detained by police at Brisbane International Airport.
The man, 20, was allegedly driving the vehicle in which 19-year-old Mandy Lea Morrell and 20-year-old Casey Debbie Jones were killed in an horrific crash at Underwood.

The man was last night charged by police with two counts of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death and is due to face Beenleigh Magistrate's Court this morning.

Earlier yesterday, the Queensland Government said it would consider tougher penalties for traffic offences after a horror start to the holiday period, which resulted in Queensland leading the national road toll.

Premier Peter Beattie, Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson and Police Minister Judy Spence made a joint appeal yesterday for Queenslanders to take more care on the roads.

Mr Beattie said the Government was prepared to be "as tough as it takes" to bring the state's road toll back under 300.

Advertisement:
"Frankly we are prepared to go to Cabinet with tough new penalties.

"Anything over 300 is much too high . . . we can't allow it to continue."

"We'd prefer not to increase the penalties because we believe they are very strong at the moment (but) if we continue at the current level . . . we'll have to consider extra penalties," he said.

Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson said the road toll was especially frustrating for police and emergency services because every road death was avoidable.

Police Minister Judy Spence said an additional 62 police were on Queensland roads during the holiday period and had reported some worrisome trends.

It makes you sick to see politicians using personal tragedy for their posturing.
Mr Beattie, and all the other pollies know what they can do, throughout the States and countries to reduce accidents, yet they neglect the things they can do that would make a difference!
To then see poliies pick the most newsworthy accidents to pull a get tough policy in the hope of looking good is sad! Its poor that helps nothing or nobone and show little respect for the victims!!!

Psycho Chicken · 27-12-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

It makes you sick to see politicians using personal tragedy for their posturing.
Mr Beattie, and all the other pollies know what they can do, throughout the States and countries to reduce accidents, yet they neglect the things they can do that would make a difference!
To then see poliies pick the most newsworthy accidents to pull a get tough policy in the hope of looking good is sad! Its poor that helps nothing or nobone and show little respect for the victims!!!

Until the general public actually use their brains to figure out they are nothing more than vote grabing knee jerk reactions it'll keep happening. Pollies couldn't care less what happens once they are out of office. And as for this time of year, they aren't being paid to think, only to eat.

Keepleft · 30-12-2005, 04:58 PM

Just a quick update to this M7 event. As we know this event becomes a matter for the Coroner, that said and without predjudice, wire-rope median barrier is installed at the crash point.

The subject vehicle hit initially this median wire-rope barrier AND concrete Jersey where these two barriers are INTERLACED, at a virtual right angle - square-on if you will. Then continued.

An issue as to interlacing comes into play having due regard as to a wire ropes mechanical engineered deflection requirement, here, there might well have been insufficient allowance for the wire-rope to do its designed job at this critical juncture, an issue impacting the state Road Design Guidelines comes into play.

Basically, the vehicle was sent airborne by the concrete Jersey up and over the wire rope alongside which could not perform normally, which at most any typical point of install elsewhere on the M7 etc would have arrested it.

It is feasible that had the wire-rope barrier not been installed the resultant crash could have been even worse for the survivors owing an even higher rolling or initial upright speed had it been the case.

Lessons in road design will come from this, and with time improvement.

Dark Horse · 30-12-2005, 05:22 PM

Ok, so is this unique to just that particular section of the M7 or are there other 'interlaces' over it's length?

Keepleft · 30-12-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Ok, so is this unique to just that particular section of the M7 or are there other 'interlaces' over it's length?

The install pattern should be shown at other twin bridge pass sites on the M7.

You will note a similar design at the F3 Ourimbah, however at a couple of install points here we have this:-

* The pedestrian so decribed pool fence - to stop pedestrians climbing up to the F3 median from the road below, per M7 etc.

* Wire rope median barrier. Installed following a fatal crossover where two youn men northbound lost control, went through the median scrub and impacted a senior lady in the right-hand lane southbound. Its install length since well extended up to Wyong road Interchange.

Now Interlacing at this location comprises: Jersey then steel guardrail off that, followed by wire rope nearest to right lane traffic interlacing with the guardrail (3-stage barrier); OR elsewhere here - a combination of each of first and last two, a la M7 BUT with an additional steel guardrail square to traffic-across the median - though 'curved' - out towards traffic protecting the pedestrian pool fence and to act as last resort in preventing a a vehicle dropping onto the roadway below.

This latter install might be of benefit on the M7. To impact near square-on a curved guardrail will be severe of course, but not as severe as impacting its standard starting edge that you see elsewhere on roads, even with installed roundish bullnose, but its better than continuing to a roadway below. In anycase the speed will have been reduced by initial road-edge barrier.

That all said, interlacing design and 'widths' so that wire-rope can behave properly will be studied.

The G6ET Spot · 30-12-2005, 06:38 PM

After twenty years and some 3miilion k's driving trucks around Australia. Nothing surprises me much anymore as to how and why accidents happen on the highways.The one thing that I do know is that it is always driver error as far as the police and the governments are concerned.But after seeing the accident site om the M7 in Sydney today it just confirms that the design of the barricades, both the cable and the concrete one played a part also.Any vehicle not just a 4X4 would have had the same outcome,as the vehicle would have hit the cable at the same time as the concrete.Then rode up the concrete barrier causing it to roll. But the design of this will probably never be brought up as lack of road maintanence and badly built roads never are. Cause there would be law suits flying all over the place against the government and the private road builders. I just think it is about time they started looking at other causes of accidents other than "driver error".

**Mechan1k** · 30-12-2005, 07:26 PM

But the problem is ... driver error initially caused the accident.
Stop Revive Survive ... that's what would have prevented this in the first place.

The wire rope and barricades may not have been sufficient enough ... but they still may be sufficient enough though.

After doing a bit of country road driving lately I can see why these accidents happen ... fatigue/speed/lack of driver education (even alcohol related as well).

So we really should not be blaming it on the barricades at all.

"Guns don't kill people ... people kill people" .... this is what I would compare it to.

If there are lawsuits .... they should be thrown out of court ... I have driven the M7 very regularly since it has opened .... it looks very very safe to me.