Series 1 brake upgrade for the mechanically challenged.

[Night]

I"ve read the thread about brake upgrades for the au (all 16 pages)
Can some one please give us some info on doing a brake upgrade for a series 1 cause I got lost everytime people talked about series 2 and 3 on the other thread. I'm not the most mechanically minded bloke around but I am willing to give anything a go.

Now I gather I need lower control arm, stub axles, sway bar and brakes. How hard is it to convert the front suspension on a series 1 to do an upgrade, like what is involved in changing all this stuff? Is it all bolt on or is there some modifying involved? What is the difference in using a eb sway bar to a series 2 and what mods are involved in that? Does everyone that has done this conversion on their series 1 have a spongy pedal and does braided lines fix this?

Also can this be for just series 1 brake upgrades cause it does get a bit confusing for some of us . Any help would be great.

[Eu-GenixX]

i agree.. i think there is a little too much info in that other thread... i know it left me feeling a little unsure... and in the end.. decided not to do it...

good luck with your upgrade....

[JC]

Originally Posted by Night

I"ve read the thread about brake upgrades for the au (all 16 pages)
Can some one please give us some info on doing a brake upgrade for a series 1 cause I got lost everytime people talked about series 2 and 3 on the other thread. I'm not the most mechanically minded bloke around but I am willing to give anything a go.

Now I gather I need lower control arm, stub axles, sway bar and brakes. How hard is it to convert the front suspension on a series 1 to do an upgrade, like what is involved in changing all this stuff? Is it all bolt on or is there some modifying involved? What is the difference in using a eb sway bar to a series 2 and what mods are involved in that? Does everyone that has done this conversion on their series 1 have a spongy pedal and does braided lines fix this?

Also can this be for just series 1 brake upgrades cause it does get a bit confusing for some of us . Any help would be great.

Well, I've done this conversion to my AU1 XR8 (now sold).

You will need a Haynes or Gregory's manual for the AU to help with removal of suspension componenets etc, but essentially it is a matter of :

1. Removing the old discs and callipers and brake lines (front only)
2. Removing the swaybar including chassis mounts and link arms
3. Removing the lower control arm and upright/stub axle assembly
4. Install the new (AU2/3/BA) lower control arm & upright/stub axle assembly
5. Install the AU2 swaybar chassis mounts (there is one hole from factory and you can use existing bolts, and you have to drill a new hole through the chassis for the other bolt hole, and use a high tensile bolt and nut.
6. Install the AU2 swaybar bushes and link ends
7. Install the new (AU2 to BA/BF/Territory) callipers and brake lines
8. Install the appropriate discs (match to the model you got the callipers from - ie if you use Territory callipers, then use Territory discs. Note that you will need at least 16" wheels to run AU2/3/BA brakes, and possibly 17s to run the Territory ones.)

Seriously, that's all there is to it. The hard part is in the "between the lines" stuff - ie removing the lower control arms etc, but this is where the Haynes/Gregory's manual comes in handy - you don't need to know how to do it, the book tells you how. You just need a good selection of sockets and spanners.

Also, with the EB swaybar - I don't see the point of using one. Some have, but I don't see how it saves you any cost unless you happen to have one lying around. It also means you have to drill a new mounting hole in the lower control arm to fit it, and if you get the hole in the wrong place, you will either bind up the suspension so it's doesn't move freely, or you may render the swaybar useless by it not applying enough pressure to the lower control arm. I would definitely stick with using the AU2/3/BA swaybar (it's the same swaybar for each of these models, BTW).

Also, while you are at it, it's worth replacing bushes such as the swaybar chassis mount bushes etc - anything that doesn't require a press to get the old out or the new in. Actually, swaybar chassis mounts may be the only ones that fall into this category, lol.

It's not that hard - it took me 11 hours the first time, but I reckon I could do it in 4 now, because I know what I'm doing - so allow plenty of time to do it.

Oh, and my pedal feel was fine - if you want to improve the pedal feel, braided lines may work, but swapping an AU2 booster/master cylinder for the stock AU1 one may help as the lines from the booster are a smaller diameter, and thus help to increase fluid pressure. But trust me when I say even with a "soft" pedal, the braking ability of the car is improved out of sight!

Hope this helps to clear up (and not add to) any confusion the other thread may have caused.

[JC]

One other thing - don't forget to clean and paint all the new bits before you fit them - it's much easier than trying to do it afterwards. So perhaps step 1 should really be clean & paint new parts to be installed.

[GK]

That's outstanding step by step advice JC. I soooooo would have loved to have been able to take pics of the process when my mate Dave did my conversion.

Perhaps these pics might help with the removal of the suspension side of things?

Changing Front Coil Springs
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...1&postcount=27

Cheers guys, and if you're keeping the AU1 for a while, get the brake upgrade for sure.

All the best with it.

GK

[EvilChief]

the hardest part is really removing stub axle (upright), the 2nd hardest is fitting/welding in the new swaybar mounts (which arent listed).

thats about it, the rest bolts on

[GK]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

the hardest part is really removing stub axle (upright), the 2nd hardest is fitting/welding in the new swaybar mounts (which arent listed).

thats about it, the rest bolts on

Yeah it is, he mentioned them in point 2 and I think he assumed you'd have to install them in point 6. That's the way it reads to me anyway! LOL!

GK

[lostdude]

Originally Posted by EvilChief

the hardest part is really removing stub axle (upright), the 2nd hardest is fitting/welding in the new swaybar mounts (which arent listed).

thats about it, the rest bolts on

do we need to weld even if are using a au series 2 swaybar?

[GK]

Originally Posted by lostdude

do we need to weld even if are using a au series 2 swaybar?

You have to fit the Series 2-3 swaybar, but you don't have to weld. As JC pointed out, you use one hole from the old setup and drill another.

GK

[Night]

Thanks JC that's excatly what I was after. My only worry is that I have never done brakes before so doing an upgade for the first time I tackle the brakes should be interesting, though in saying that it does look pretty straight forward. Just one more question. The high tensile bolts and nuts are something I gather that are not really something you can get from the hardware are they, and when you say use the existing ones does that mean your adding a third bolt to the bracket.
I have lowered my car myself so I have done most of the suspension work involved and can't see that being too much off a hassle for me and I found that pretty easy so I'm cofident in doing this, just the brakes worry me a bit cause thats something new to me.

[kcej]

Originally Posted by Night

just the brakes worry me a bit cause thats something new to me.

In that case we better make
Step 9. Bleed the brakes

[Night]

Yeah I know about that but thanks

[GK]

Originally Posted by kcej

In that case we better make
Step 9. Bleed the brakes

I was thinking of making that comment myself, as I add the absolutely no brainer details. JC of course would rightly assume that we'd know to do that.

Cheers,

GK

[stavros68]

The hardest thing would be the sway mounting brackets that go on the inner side of the rail next to the exhaust, if you have got an 8cyl you have to drop the exhaust on both sides,if you want to do it properly. If its a 6cyl should be easier to get to.
Just gravity bleed the breaks

[Night]

Originally Posted by stavros68

The hardest thing would be the sway mounting brackets that go on the inner side of the rail next to the exhaust, if you have got an 8cyl you have to drop the exhaust on both sides,if you want to do it properly. If its a 6cyl should be easier to get to.
Just gravity bleed the breaks

Can someone give us mentally challenged guys some info on bleeding brakes. I was under the impression that it was a two person job, with one in the car pushing the brake pedal and the other one bleeding the caliper. Any info would be great. Cheers

[stavros68]

yeah 2 ways of doing it, just loosen the bleeders and wait till the fluids come out without any air in it, you could tell by the concistancy of the drip, tighten the bleaders and very gently pump the pedal until your pedal is hard, start the car up and again pump the pedal gently until you have a firm pedal.

[fordman_01]

can you just upgrade the series 1 brakes by changing them to series 2/3 brakes. i mean like changing the rotors and brake pads?... i know this might be a stupid question but i am not that mechanically minded

[sly]

No...

The S2/3 discs are thicker than S1 and have a different offset, requiring matching calipers. The caliper mounts on the spindles are different, requiring matching spindles. The sway bar and lower arm mounts on the spindles are different, requiring matching sway bar and lower arms.

There are other alternatives, ie try to pick up a set of AU1 premium brakes through ebay or a wrecker. Someone offered a set for $650 IIRC a few months ago. Requires only changing disks and calipers.

Otherwise there is a kit available with modified spindles, bigger calipers and disks which costs more than an AU2/3 or BA/F conversion from a wrecker but is less work to fit. Search this forum on "brake upgrade" and you'll probably find more info.

[fordman_01]

thanks for that, i went to ford the other day enquiring about a brake upgrade and they quoted me 1200ish for series 2 brakes >> calipers, rotors n pads. thats a bit high for stock series 2 brakes right???

[JC]

Originally Posted by fordman_01

thanks for that, i went to ford the other day enquiring about a brake upgrade and they quoted me 1200ish for series 2 brakes >> calipers, rotors n pads. thats a bit high for stock series 2 brakes right???

Brand new, that would be about right. Much better off getting the lot from a wreckers. FTG do the kits for around $1k with everything you need, and Aussie Car recyclers in Qld also do them for about half that. Both will post anywhere in Oz.

[fordman_01]

Originally Posted by JC

Brand new, that would be about right. Much better off getting the lot from a wreckers. FTG do the kits for around $1k with everything you need, and Aussie Car recyclers in Qld also do them for about half that. Both will post anywhere in Oz.

ok JC thanks for that but if i do get the series 2 brake upgrade my brakes will defs be better than now?? and by how much

[sly]

You won't know yourself, as granny used to say...

[JC]

Originally Posted by fordman_01

ok JC thanks for that but if i do get the series 2 brake upgrade my brakes will defs be better than now?? and by how much

Yep - about twice as good. I went from series 1 DBA slotted rotors and advance pads (about 20% better than standard series 1), and upgraded to just the standard AU2 brakes with advance pads and it was a huge improvement - probably 50% or so better again!

[lostdude]

Jc do i need to get another wheel alignment after i have bolted everything in?
thanks.

[JC]

Originally Posted by lostdude

Jc do i need to get another wheel alignment after i have bolted everything in?
thanks.

You probably should. I never did because when I took it for it's inaugural test drive, it steered straight and felt OK, plus I measured the toe on each side and it was pretty much even.

But then I check for uneven wear fairly regularly too (visual, plus feel) and would have got an alignment had there been any hint of scrubbing.

For the $40 it costs you though, it might be cheap insurance against scrubbing out $200 per side tyres. If you take it somewhere regularly, they may even just check it for nothing, or only charge you half if they don't actually have to change anything (doubtful though).

[fordman_01]

Originally Posted by JC

Yep - about twice as good. I went from series 1 DBA slotted rotors and advance pads (about 20% better than standard series 1), and upgraded to just the standard AU2 brakes with advance pads and it was a huge improvement - probably 50% or so better again!

sweet as then, cos atm i have problems stoping sometimes or not enough brakeage around a corner, like the other night in the wet my car would not stop i had to go straight instead of making a left turn.

[lostdude]

Originally Posted by JC

For the $40 it costs you though, it might be cheap insurance against scrubbing out $200 per side tyres. If you take it somewhere regularly, they may even just check it for nothing, or only charge you half if they don't actually have to change anything (doubtful though).

thanks jc, very informative once again.
can i just bug you for one more question, my left front had too much camber and excessively wearing out the outside edge so it was shimmed, would i need to get it reshimmed after the conversion.

i should have put this in my first post but forgot about it, sorry.

[JC]

Originally Posted by lostdude

thanks jc, very informative once again.
can i just bug you for one more question, my left front had too much camber and excessively wearing out the outside edge so it was shimmed, would i need to get it reshimmed after the conversion.

i should have put this in my first post but forgot about it, sorry.

Probably not as the upper control arm bolt for the upright is pretty easy to get out on the AU. If it was an E series, I would say you definitely need one, as it takes a hammer to break the upper balljoint, but AU pretty much slips out.

BUT, if it does need a shim or two (or even a shim removed), that should be all part of a standard wheel alignment charge, and the shop that does the work has millions of shims that cost them nothing.

[Night]

Hi guys, I got a price today from a wreckers for
2 lower control arms,
2 stub axles,
sway bar + pivot arms and mounts,
2 calipers and pads
2 rotors
and 1 16" steel wheel for my spare.
All this is from a BA and and was $650. Does this sound alright? The only thing that bothers me is the car had a engine bay fire but all the bushes are ok and calipers look ok too. even the rubbers on top of the struts aren't damaged so it looks like the heat hasn't affected anything. The control arms have surface rust as do the rotors but thats probably from the car being outside as well.
What do you guys think about this. Also looking at the size of the callipers they are huge compared to what's in mine so I can see the advantage of this upgrade for sure.

[stavros68]

Got mine about $400 or 450 cant remember minus the steel wheel, before you start changing over the front replace all the bushes as it will be the best time to do it, just piece of mind