new mondeo for aus

[guym]

Just read on Drive.com.au that ford are about to annouce bringing in the Mondeo. Very good move. Finally ford are starting to recongnise that the large car is in real trouble for a number of reasons, fuel prices just one of the big important reasons.

2 years ago I suggested that ford should bite the bullet and dump the falcon for a better car such as the mondeo or build the focus here, but a bloke called Zetec (who at the time worked for ford, don't know if he still does) got stuck into me, questioned what would I know and defending ford management for continuing with the large car. Well to you Zetec all I can say is history is fast proving I am correct.

The day of the large car is coming to an end. the drop of of sales in the large car segment is continuing to decline. Mitsubishi is in trouble with the 380 and they have annouced the second face lift in the cars history and its not even two years old. And I won't mention project phoenix. And now ford are showing their hand about the trouble of the large car segment.

There seems to be a lot of talk around these days about the future of the car industy in this country and the car makers keep talking about how the government should put in more money and subsidies to the industry. Well its about time the industry itself should take some responsibility. Its ability to miss read the market at the moment is disgraceful. 4 car makers in this country and only one of them is building a 4 cylinder car, the rest continue to build large petrol guslers. If the likes of Mitsubishi and Ford stop production here they have to take some considerable responsibility themselves. Supply and demand requires you to make what the public want and the car industry has been moving to smaller more efficient and better quality for some considerable time.

And my last rant, while I am at it which is along the same theme, is can anyone explain how in this climate of fuel costs and declining large car market does the Commondore get car of the year. I would have thought that it would be thrown out because its just far too expensive to run. But as Zetec would love to point out what would I know. Well lets what history evolve again and lets see.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by guym

large car is in real trouble for a number of reasons, fuel prices just one of the big important reasons.

Sales of large cars (Falcon, Commodore, Magna) are diving, yes. HOWEVER the Falcon and Commodore badges are still sit in the top 2 (or 3, recently) positions as models sold. Now can you see Ford saying "f^&k!!!! Falcon sales are dropping, lets just can the Falcon and try and sell the Aussies some euro mid-sized sedan"??? History shows that the mondeo will be as dear if not dearer than the Falcon

Originally Posted by guym

2 years ago I suggested that ford should bite the bullet and dump the falcon for a better car such as the mondeo or build the focus here, but a bloke called Zetec (who at the time worked for ford, don't know if he still does) got stuck into me, questioned what would I know and defending ford management for continuing with the large car. Well to you Zetec all I can say is history is fast proving I am correct.

No your not, Zetec is correct. See the logic above for reasons why.

Originally Posted by guym

The day of the large car is coming to an end. the drop of of sales in the large car segment is continuing to decline. Mitsubishi is in trouble with the 380 and they have annouced the second face lift in the cars history and its not even two years old. And I won't mention project phoenix. And now ford are showing their hand about the trouble of the large car segment.

Show me a Magna/380 that has or ever will sell well in the segment. 380 has a beauty of an engine, but, for one reason or another, doesnt sell. Commodore has a shitty engine, and sells like hotcakes

Originally Posted by guym

There seems to be a lot of talk around these days about the future of the car industy in this country and the car makers keep talking about how the government should put in more money and subsidies to the industry. Well its about time the industry itself should take some responsibility.

That, I agree with

Originally Posted by guym

Its ability to miss read the market at the moment is disgraceful. 4 car makers in this country and only one of them is building a 4 cylinder car, the rest continue to build large petrol guslers. If the likes of Mitsubishi and Ford stop production here they have to take some considerable responsibility themselves. Supply and demand requires you to make what the public want and the car industry has been moving to smaller more efficient and better quality for some considerable time.

That is wrong. We dont build small cars because we are no good at it. We are only half as good as making a UNIQUE car like teh Falcon or Commodore because thats what weve been doing for decades. There is NO way we could ever compete with Toyota in Japan for making 4cyl cars

Originally Posted by guym

And my last rant, while I am at it which is along the same theme, is can anyone explain how in this climate of fuel costs and declining large car market does the Commondore get car of the year. I would have thought that it would be thrown out because its just far too expensive to run. But as Zetec would love to point out what would I know. Well lets what history evolve again and lets see.

If you ever look at the operating costs of a car the fuel accounts for somwhere between 25% and 33% (on most leases)

If the commodore is 50% less effecient around town than a Prius then the fuel component will increase the total cost of runnign the car by a piddly 15% Never mind the fact that a) the commodore prob uses less fuel on the highway, b) doesnt need new cells every 10 years at the cost of $5,000, c) is far safer car to travel in, d) is far cheaper to buy and e) costs half as much for parts and service, I cant see a little more fuel consumption being a real issue. If you want a family car, you dont want a Prius.

[DJL351]

Ah yeah...... how to reply without getting banned.......

<snip>

Dump the Falcon for a better car....?????? What the Mondeo! Better! Not on your life mate.
People b*tch about the small issues the current Falcon has....
could you imagine the threads about the endless issues and high cost of part etc the Mondeo would start....

Farrrrrrk me. I was glad to see them go.
Less parts we had to stock on the shelves... no wait.... that's right.... most parts were ex-UK!

I'll admit the new Mondeo "looks" better than the last lot.... but do they run any better?

[photn]

dude are you for real? are you from the Flat Earth Society, thats a bit of a Single Minded View buddy. Youve really lost the Plot!!! i dont get ware you can come in like that acting all high and mighty that you know everything.

A) just cause Ford are bringing in the Mondeo it doesnt mean that they are worried about the Falcon and the LOSS of sales. its because there is a Market for it...and cause they can MAKE MONEY off it.

B)Also the Technology in the New small cars are making them more Prefferable due to the ability to increase the power and have a small car yet have good performance Figures. Hence why the Focus and fiesta have taken off. the Fuel Costs have A role but they are not the singular one....

C) the reason the VE commodore took out that award was cause Wheel is prejudice towards Holden if you havent already noticed in your such extravagant Endevours..

Zetec Actually works for ford (as you may know), Its a pity that FORD dont have you as there on site Clairvoyant for the Future to determine how the Sales are going to be like. with you HIGH intelect and smarts Ford could make a billions of profit....

D) the large car market is no problem what so ever buddy. People are recognzing that there are other cars out there that serve there purpose, there is no way in HELL that Ford would Drop the Falcon, if they did there would be NO FORD AUS. Ford would sell no cars. you think cause YOU believe that they should drop it that they will drop a car that has WON multiple Bathurst races and is apart of AUS heritage.... hahah your seriously delusional....

If you hate the Falcon so much then Move to the UK! you can have all the Mondeo's and Foci and fez's you want. with no worry about a large car.....

[Polyal]

As long as they bring the ST model then I dont care! Ive driven the current one and it is brilliant.

/dreams of a FPV Mondeo...hmmm

There is MOST definitely a market for the Falcon and Commy, not just here but within the region as well. The Falcon is not going anywhere in a hurry, although if they dont get some more exports then yes it is on borrowed time.

As for the Mondeo, its over due, and the market has changed to the point where it will be warmly received.

[andrewts]

Well it is a good decision, Ford need something to compat the Holden Epica. (That's if that ever sees the light of day.)

As for dropping the Falcon over the Mondeo, I doubt they will, as the tradesmen and V8 Supercar racers and so on need to drive something! Besides, just because it is not in the number 1 car sales position, doesn't mean it should be dropped as said before. 2008 will be D day for Ford, and if we turn our noses up at the new Falcon, hopefully we can just ship it to the Americas!

[guym]

Ford should drop the falcon and make the mondeo here or the focus here. I never said only import cars, my comment was about building a different car here. Your comments about selling the mondeo here because they see a market for it is actually incorrect according to ford. In the past they have stated that they would not import it because it would take sales from the falcon and there was not the maket for it. Now they are changing their mind, why????? Well the reasons are obvious the drop in the large car segment.

photn. for you information trend anaylsis is actually a pretty definded science these days as well as market research. You don't need to be Clairvoyant to understand these these, the odd brain cell and read the news.

How can you say the large car segment is not got problems. its actually half what it was a few years ago.

As for connection of the car on the street to the car that has won bathurst, biggest load of garbage I have ever heard. The only thing similar about those two cars is the basic (and I mean basic) body shape. The rest of the car is nothing alike.

I do think you ar showing your ingrain bios that you learnt as a child. bit like I vote labour or libberal because my parents did so I do. The same with I like the falcon because my parents do. Look beyond your own front gate to see what is going on in the big wide world.

[melbzetec]

Trend analysis 6 years ago said the mid size market was shrinking and dying

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by guym

ingrain bios

Me think u ment to say ingrown bias

[Polyal]

And of course Ford are going to say that it would take sales away, because it probably would have!

Times have changed, people are down sizing a little bit, so Ford has nothing in that segment. Naturally they are going to plug the gap now, I dont know the exact figures but there are alot of Astras and Vectra's around; even in Geelong of all places.

Im not even going to bother argueing the V8SC thing....

[photn]

okay round 2 *ding*

ford havent changed there mind about introducing the mondeo cause it would steal Falcon sales....i doubt there would be a MAJOR decrease of Falcon sales when the mondeo is released....

If trend analysis is so easy then why are you complaining that ford have it all wrong, Your saying that Ford couldnt predict the "TREND" with the small car market, so basically a MULTI-National company isnt employing these ppl that can calculate or read "trends"...i have no doubt that Ford have done EXTENSIVE market research into both the Falcon and MOndeo and focus and fiesta. whats your source to say they havent? a simple View that they havent Dropped the Falcon?

If the large car segment was REALLY in trouble im sure it would be Splashed across the news papers and in the 7 oclock news. The matter of fact is that with any release of a more smaller and effiecent smaller car such as the Fiesta dn focus line up the Larger car market will drop porportionally and then level out. IN NO WAY will it be in trouble and cease to exist...

HAHA basic body shape?? lol so your saying that the BASIC body shape of the XA falcon is the same as the BF. if thats true it would be safe to say/assume that the BASIC shape of the XA falcon is the same as the BASIC shape of the Mitsu Magna or toyota Camry... cause all 3 share the same BASIC body shape... a SEDAN..

So if ford release a new sedan large car that no one has heard of at all your saying that ppl will go out and buy one. HA. NO. lets use the Turauas (how ever you spell that piece of crap) as an example. it was a large car, 6cl... all that jazz. Yet no one bought it cause A: no history. no one knew anything about the car, B) it had crap styling C) the list goes on about how GAY they where...
People Recognise a Falcon, People want one cause its an Australian Icon. Because it makes them sumwat feel that they are apart of something bigger, that they own a bit of a Race car....the Falcon has always been Fords HERO model in AUS. take that away. they have nothing.

I know whats going on in the world. and i actaully choose what i want instead of what my parents "show me or tell me to do" i am my own person and act/do what i like. My family is holden. yet i drive a Ford cause i like them! that enough proof? just cause i defend ford doesnt mean i know nothing about the rest of the world...

You should worry about the Plank in your eye b4 you start on some one about the splinter in Someone elses.

[andrewts]

(Reffering to post number 7)

Whoa buddy take it easy! Of course the car that one bathurst is not the car that you get into when you leave the airport, nobody said they were. I was just talking about it as an iconic vehicle in that sense. Why, of course Ford should just get rid of a car that is helpful to many many Australians, a car that has roots a mile long, a car that was number 3 selling in 2006, and number 1 in local production cars, and of course, they should replace it with the smaller and more expensive part bearing European Mondeo! It makes total sense! I can't wait to see the Mondeo ute, the Mondeo wagon, and a Mondeo stretched Limo.

I like the Falcon because I like the Falcon mate. It's a good, cheap to service, cheap to buy (second hand) reliable, powerful, spacious, practical and dynamic vehicle, built for Aus, designed for Aus, and iconic to Aus. My parents like bloody Toyotas and Mazdas and Hondas and **** mate. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

You can slate people in defense of your own ideas as much as you want, it is just a revealer of character. Ford aren't going to listen to your perillous screams for attention any more than other people will, sure, you think Ford should drop the Falcon. Ford makes money off the Falcon, and that's what businesses do. Make money. Why would they decide they can do without that money? Why? Tell me. Is it because petrol costs too much? Is it because people don't need big cars, and you think they should drive smaller cars?

Ford is not going to drop the Falcon mate, get used to it.

[photn]

Seriously mate. you should go and crawl back under the self Richous, ignoramous, single pointed, attention seeker Rock you Crawled out from when your hibernation ended. that or join

www.ffoc.co.uk
and talk about the focus and mondeo as much as you like cause all your doing here is stirring and the thread is all about making ppl beleive your pointl. there is no more new information here about the Mondeo that every1 didnt even know. your a couple of months late.!

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by photn

Seriously mate. you should go and crawl back under the self Richous, ignoramous, single pointed, attention seeker Rock you Crawled out from when your hibernation ended.

Interesting way of saying it....

Building either the Focus or Mongayo here would cost the more than the flat earth
you're currently living on!

To do it, Ford would have to kill off the Falcon, remove the tooling gear and then replace it with the gear required for the "other" cars.
This would drive up the price of the cars simply to cover the costs...

trend anaylsis is actually a pretty definded science these days

Yeah..... just like the weathermen of the world.... "Might" is their catch phrase.

[Piotr]

The mondeo and falcon are in two different market classes. The Falcon is a large family car while the Mondeo is a mid sized.

The large car market is still IIRC the largest market for cars in Australia. Youd be stupid to pull out.

Just because you said something 2 years ago and now its happening doesn't mean you know all. The Car market has changes massivly in the last 2 years and who knows what the next two years hold.

[guym]

photn round three

you obviously don't read the papers and see the news. where do you think I get the info about the drop in large car segment...........news and stats figure all the info that is in the public domain.

my comment about basic car shape was nothing to do with the BF and XA. It was in response to your comment about ford not droping the falcon because the car has won bathurst. My point is (and I will repeat myself) is that the ford sold on the street is nothing like the car raced on the track. Its only people that should no better that think, oh a car won a race so its a good car so I should buy one because the street car will be a good car too. sorry to spoil this great theory but the car racing and manufacturing industries don't work that way. Manufactures want us to think like that but its not actually true. Its called marketing spin.

Turauas, totally agree with your comment about its a crap car with crap styling. but the rest of your argument doesn't make sence or the commondore would never had sold because before it came around the only thing we knew about holden was the Kingswood and taroona. another example is the focus in europe, before it was the escort.

[melbzetec]

Guym, all that info is NOT in the public domain. You only get edited highlights of the VFACTS(the source of all sales and market share data in the Australian Automotive markets) in the press. You have to pay to get all the info. (And I get to see it all)

You seemed to have missed (or ignored) an important point in the emotive respones above.

Yes large cars have declined. But they are still amongst the largest sellers in the market. In other words, there is still significant demand for them, and thus no-one is simply going to walk away from them just because they sold more in the past

Mondeo will struggle at first, as most "new" nameplates do. (The first generations of Astra and Focus both struggled)

Their is tremendous power in established names (Corolla, Civic, Falcon) that shouldn't be underestimated

I think you make some relevant points. But even you described it as a "rant" and I'm afriad a "you're all idiots and I am smarter than you" type approach is only ever going to get you a heated response

[FOCUSonTHIS]

Melbzetec, well said. I agree with you.

[1lifeliveit]

mmmmmmmmm.........ok...where do we start?

Any argument is based on assumptions. So lets start there.

Guym, you say that large car market is in trouble. Is it in trouble? Well of course it is in trouble. But what is "trouble"?

I can think of atleast 2 kinds of trouble

Trouble that says "manufacturers of all large cars shud drop them and move to smaller lighter, efficient cars"

and

Trouble that says " manufacturers of all large cars better get their acts together and make their large cars efficient and more exciting"

I think in fords case its trouble number 2. Falcons sales drop is not just becuase if rising fuel prices, but also because the new commodore and Aurion, to a certain extent, have bitten into its share

People are emotionally attached to any strong brand like falcon or commodore. It takes years, or in this case, decades, to build that sort of connection. Killing such a brand is, in peoples minds, MURDER.

Do you think that after that, aussies would even go anywhere near a ford? Yes they would !! But they are people like you and me who dont have an emotional side to brand loyalty. (Brand loyalty can be based on different factors like perceived value, risk avoidance, emotional attachment etc.) I think ppl like us are few and far between.

On the other side you dont seem to understand the enormity of starting-to-make-a-new-car here. The investment required for the infrastructure and knowledge-base development is just too big, even for ford. What ford is doing in bringing mondeo here is having a feel for the market for such a car. If they see a huge market for it, they might consider building it here. Building them here straight-away in a hope that people will move to a smaller car is bungee jumping without a rope. But as you say the future is definitely pointing towards more efficient cars ( Small or big)

Finally, everyone very much has a right to have an opinion. The right to make others buy it - Nobody does

[photn]

Originally Posted by guym

photn round three

you obviously don't read the papers and see the news. where do you think I get the info about the drop in large car segment...........news and stats figure all the info that is in the public domain.

my comment about basic car shape was nothing to do with the BF and XA. It was in response to your comment about ford not droping the falcon because the car has won bathurst. My point is (and I will repeat myself) is that the ford sold on the street is nothing like the car raced on the track. Its only people that should no better that think, oh a car won a race so its a good car so I should buy one because the street car will be a good car too. sorry to spoil this great theory but the car racing and manufacturing industries don't work that way. Manufactures want us to think like that but its not actually true. Its called marketing spin.

Turauas, totally agree with your comment about its a crap car with crap styling. but the rest of your argument doesn't make sence or the commondore would never had sold because before it came around the only thing we knew about holden was the Kingswood and taroona. another example is the focus in europe, before it was the escort.

A) i do read the paper and see the news. but all media is corupt in one way or another. i get the general Jist of what they are trying to say. As MelbZetec said and i knew b4 hand that those figures you where probably Reffering to was probably the VFACTs. im not arguing actual numbers cause i cbf reading all the numbers or paying to see them for that matter.

B) your second paragraph...Have you read the history books....im pretty sure that the Phase3 GTHO was what they raced at bathurst along with the Phase 3/4 XW/Y GT. yet you could buy those from ford themselves. i agree its not the Case with the Newer cars but the GT is very well respected in its own manner and very much a street race car..

Holden had established a long line of followers even with just the Torana and Kingswood that and they where an AUSSIE company so that assisted them when they brought in the first commodore. no one said the Commodore was an instant hit when it was first released, it took time to grow on ppl, and the Fact that Holden was using it to run at bathurst helped them majorly to promote and sell the car. that and peter brock.

But come on seriously mate. you jump on a predominatly Falcon dominated forum and tell them that Ford should drop the car. lol.

Another comparison you could of made was that b4 the fiesta was the laser. yet the Fiesta took off slowly and then skyrocketed. just like the Focus in europe. its a pretty bug thing in europe the Focus and Fiesta.

just an idea mate...next time you start a post like your first one. dont come out guns firing and what not. actually think about what your gonna say. and then think. there are people out there that are more smarter than me...

oh and "IM not the center of the Universe and i do not have infinate knowledge"

kk pumpkin.... :

[Deanodriver]

Personally, I think the Falcon should be retained, and the Mondeo bought in.

There needs to be something to fit in between the Focus and the Falcon, and the Mondeo looks ideal for that, since medium cars are selling quite well at the moment.

Those who rightly argue that it'll steal Falcon sales, well, perhaps the local makers should focus less on a shrinking local market where most sales are to fleets, and more on export sales. Even if only 1500 Falcons a month are sold here, export the rest. If the Falcon keeps being sold pretty much only in Australia/NZ, and sales shrink further, it's gonna make less sense to keep building the Falcon.

[pertuan]

I just looked at the UK Ford site for the Mondeo. It looks very nice. I'd certainly buy that if it came here. Looks very "Iosis" like. hehe

[chief]

If the Falcon is in trouble because its a large car and the large car market is shrinking, why is the Territory doing so well???

[XR5-Boy]

Originally Posted by pertuan

Looks very "Iosis" like. hehe

Yup! That was the basis of the car. Of course, it doens't have the camera side mirrors or the gull-wing 4 doors or the awesome orange interior like the Iosis, but it's a damn good car. Yes, the large car market has dipped down a little, but thats called trend. same thing happened in the 80's. It's all about what consumers are into at the present time. Medium-small cars are in "fashion" at the minute and some car companies have acknowledged that. You know how many Toyota's i see everyday around here. Yaris', Corolla's etc etc. But, It doesn't mean there isn't a demand still for the larger cars. My dad is even looking at getting a bigger car after his finished with his XR6T. It's all about consumer preference. I used to work in retail and not everyone wants the same thing. Yeah, sometimes a awesome pair of Nike's used to come in to the store and we'll sell them like hotcakes, but doesn't mean everyone has to buy it. It's exactly same with the Car industry. Yes, the Falcon, in my opinion, eats the dunnydoor for breakfast everytime, along with a number of other cars, but doesn't mean everyone is going to buy it.

Originally Posted by chief

If the Falcon is in trouble because its a large car and the large car market is shrinking, why is the Territory doing so well???

Exactly my point. People ask me, "why did you buy a Cougar" and "Is it coz petrol is expensive?" I bought the Cougar because I wanted to. I had a 1991 Magna SE before this and I felt it was time to get something I liked. If i wanted to buy a Falcon (and i would have if i had the money) i would.

[Stugots]

While Aussies keep getting fatter, the days of the large car will go on and the argument of petrol prices and fuel economy is a pretty weak one as technology will counter that. We're already seeing LPG offered and the like.

Back to the Mondeo, It could be good for us Focus owners in the hope that we'll now have a bigger parts base if some Mondeo components are interchangable.
I wonder if Holden will have the new Torana out around the same time to compete. I reckon they might if Commodore sales begin to flag.

[More revs]

I still want the Focus Diesel...

[Dshibi]

I'd be interested in an ST Mondeo - rumoured that it will have the XR5T engine in it, so it'll be sweet. I loved it's appearance in Casino Royale, even though that was basically a shell put together for the movie!

I think Holden's answer will be the South Korean and lower priced Epica... saw it in the paper a few weeks back. The Mondeo will be (rumoured) on a pricing level to compete with Accord Euro and Mazda 6.

Dan

[Polyal]

Meh I hope it doesn't have the XR5 engine, the V6 it has now is very nice.

[murcod]

Originally Posted by Stugots

We're already seeing LPG offered and the like.

I was reading a post elsewhere from a company manager who owned a few near new Falcon utes. The petrol ones were averaging around 13l / 100km and the factory gas ones 22l / 100km!!! Do the maths on that one and you're not really saving money.....

People are forgetting the highest selling passenger car for PRIVATE sales is usually the Toyota Corolla! It's fleet sales that boost up the figures for Falcon / Commodore and the like, the average private buyer is NOT looking at them.

In fact the Corolla outsold Commodore and Falcon for both PRIVATE and FLEET markets in January 2007 http://www.caradvice.com.au/category/statistics/

Food for thought:

The current Mondeo is 4731mm in length, a Commy VE 4894mm, a VN 4850mm, and a VL 4766mm. The "large" Australian cars have been creeping up in size over the years- the current Mondeo is only 35mm shorter than a VL; and when you take into consideration the interior space benefits of a FWD body it should easily be bigger inside. Does the average Australian family really need a car as big as a VE or/ BF? Also consider that even my wife's Mazda 6 has a boot bigger than the VE and I can sit in the back comfortably without touching the front seat (I'm over 6ft tall.)

The reason a new Mondeo won't sell well over here is because it's FRONT WHEEL DRIVE and of course it will be priced a bit dearer. A lot of Australian drivers have a FWD phobia, it doesn't matter that there are plenty of FWD's that will out handle any garden variety Commy / Falcon- they will not buy one!? :

[melbzetec]

Just out of interest...Honda sold more passenger cars in January than Ford. Strange but true!