2010 Falcon/Territory (speculation)

Road_Warrior · 01-05-2009, 04:56 PM

Right.

We know that come 2010, some time before July 1, there is going to be (well, HAS to be if Fr0d want to keep selling them) a mildly updated Falcon (let's call it the FH for argument's sake) and a heavily revised Territory (SZ perhaps?). The Territory is supposed to have a redesigned front and back end, FG driveline and interior, so we're told.

Keeping in mind the Euro 4 cutoff date next year, it's roughly 12 months out from the on-sale date of both of these cars.

Going back through the threads in the lead up to when Orion was released, test mules started cropping up on public roads and scuttlebutt started appearing here and there, roughly 12 months out from the on-sale date. Now I know full well there is probably no such "golden rule" of starting public testing 12 months out from release, but to me it seems that this may be a logical testing procedure for Ford prior to release of a new car.

Possible changes to the FH over the FG probably arent going to be much, probably just engine calibration changes as detailed by Ford themselves and by posters here, and perhaps some cosmetic differences (think of the model transition from BA to BF - this is what I think will happen). This car is supposedly the 'Huntsman' car that has been talked about. To that end, they could probably get away with doing the bulk of FH testing within the proving ground (probably what they did with the SYII Territory because the changes were so minor) and what full-build mules that are actually on the street are probably indistinguishable to the average punter. Only the trainspotters will be able to tell the difference.

Not so for the new Territory - with the amount of changes that are supposedly being done, there will come a time where Ford will have to venture out of the proving ground for real-world testing.

The point I am making at the end of all this speculation is that the test mules are probably out there, amongst us, right now! Get those cameras at the ready!

Perhaps someone with some inside knowledge can chime in as to whether this is on the mark or not (without incriminating yourself - it's not worth getting fired over!). Or perhaps you have in fact seen what appeared to be a 2010 Falcon or Territory test mule on the road where you are but werent sure what it was.

Iggypoppin' · 01-05-2009, 05:03 PM

I won't hold my breath here in Adelaide, as I doubt we'd get a test mule. But it's an interesting theory you have about release dates/test mule sightings. Be good to see some snaps.

FPV8U · 01-05-2009, 05:13 PM

When we start to spot the Mules for the next falcons that have a different sounding V8 i'll be very interisted..

Jason[98.EL] · 01-05-2009, 05:19 PM

I know of 2 terry test muels getting around geelong with deisel engines so anythingis possiable

Road_Warrior · 01-05-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

I know of 2 terry test muels getting around geelong with deisel engines so anythingis possiable

Didnt someone post about a month ago saying that there was a whole gaggle of them out and about, just they are unnoticeable because they are in the 'old' bodyshell??

Nikked · 01-05-2009, 05:54 PM

in 2010 we are most likely to see a FG mkII...with the typical added feature and improved engines.

Huntsman was canned...

yift · 01-05-2009, 07:52 PM

the terry diesels have been going around for over a year

BrisVegas · 01-05-2009, 08:17 PM

have they decided which diesel it's gonna be?

fou_bleu · 01-05-2009, 08:28 PM

I'm hoping the diesel is the (at least single) turbo V6 from Jag/LR, but wasn't there some kind of engine bay space issues???

R-Design · 01-05-2009, 08:30 PM

I haven't seen anything but I hope the rumors that the Four Speed Auto is dropped are true, and that the Coyote V8 is an absolute monster.

Lets shoot for the stars, how about a Factory Sunroof & Lockable Fuel Cap.

Road_Warrior · 01-05-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

in 2010 we are most likely to see a FG mkII...with the typical added feature and improved engines.

Huntsman was canned...

My understanding is that Huntsman was canned when the switch to the V6 was made. Then the switch back to the I6 'uncanned' the Huntsman program.

Given we are probably 12 months out from the on-sale date for both cars, there ought to be more information out there...

**Elks** · 01-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

I know of 2 terry test mules getting around Geelong with diesel engines so anything is possible

Yes but there was a black territory mule which used to stop outside work with a clear V8 rumble. It never made production.

JutroXR8 · 01-05-2009, 11:56 PM

My guess would be Territory to come out with LR 2.7l TD.

5.0l V8 supercharged for the Falcons.

Possibly touch screen display in the high series falcons ala BMW and the likes???

Mr_4.0 · 02-05-2009, 12:29 AM

i know the answers and many of u are well off the ball.

Swordsman88 · 02-05-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_4.0

i know the answers and many of u are well off the ball.

well cough up the info then...... Its no point torturing people, if you don't want to give up the info for ethical/legal reasons so be it, but a statement like that at least desevers a hint after it.

Falc'man · 02-05-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

My understanding is that Huntsman was canned when the switch to the V6 was made. Then the switch back to the I6 'uncanned' the Huntsman program.

Given we are probably 12 months out from the on-sale date for both cars, there ought to be more information out there...

It's the other way around, V6 Falcon was Huntsman. Huntsman is dead. Count to 3 and it's the I6 again.

What more info would you like that hasn't already been given? The I6 will soldier on, there's a Diesel Territory. Falcon's sheet-metal might undergo some changes. FPV won't have a supercharged V8, it's purely NA with about the same power as they have now. XR8 will get the 270kW V8 version, although not as powerful it will be as quick as, if not quicker, than current XR8, and handle a whole lot better.

You won't see 2010 Territory mules since there isn't any substantial changes in the styling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

well cough up the info then...... Its no point torturing people, if you don't want to give up the info for ethical/legal reasons so be it, but a statement like that at least deserves a hint after it.

I agree, it's like saying "some of you are right, and some of you are wrong". Anyone could have said that. If his post was aimed at one person's comments then that would be okay, but he was very vague. Who's right and who's wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Lets shoot for the stars, how about a Factory Sunroof & Lockable Fuel Cap.

R-Design · 02-05-2009, 07:49 AM

[QUOTE=Falc'man]FPV won't have a supercharged V8, it's purely NA with about the same power as they have now.

I hope this isn't true. The way Rod Barrett's been running his mouth about the new V8, if performance is similar he might as well start looking for a new job now.

Paxton · 02-05-2009, 09:29 AM

Youseef - before the I6 was killed, we had Huntsman. With the V6, we had 123. The insiders haven't exactly been forthcoming with the new code name, so I can't help out there.

The current mail on Territory, is that, once the Diesel Territroy arrives, Territory will be Diesel only, as there are too many added complexities in having two engines in Teeritory. Not the best news.

JMO · 02-05-2009, 09:45 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but can't the I6 be made to run on diesel?

GS608 · 02-05-2009, 09:56 AM

[QUOTE=Boss315]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

FPV won't have a supercharged V8, it's purely NA with about the same power as they have now.

I hope this isn't true. The way Rod Barrett's been running his mouth about the new V8, if performance is similar he might as well start looking for a new job now.

Falc'man said same power, not same performance, just like he said the xr8 will have the 270kw version, 20kws down on the current engine but will be just as quick if not quicker. So the new V8 with about the same power will be much quicker

GK · 02-05-2009, 09:58 AM

Surely they won't only offer one engine in the Territory. That does not make any sense to me at all.

If they can offer 4 choices in Falcon, I6 Petrol, Egas, I6T and V8, why would they only offer 1 in Territory.

Surely, Egas, Diesel and Petrol engines will be offered?

GK

Road_Warrior · 02-05-2009, 10:42 AM

Having diesel-only in the Territory seems stupid. Surely they wouldn't do this. They would alienate most of their Territory customer base if they did that, because people will think that diesel = smelly and rattly = no bingo. I know it's jnot quite like that but it's hard to change the perceptions held by Mr and Mrs Average Australian car buyer.

And considering the Territory is up for a major front and rear sheetmetal change, as well as interior change and addition of FG motors etc, I would image that there will need to be mules out on the road sooner or later.

imugli · 02-05-2009, 11:00 AM

I'm possibly (probably) ignorant here, but would I be far wrong in saying that they won't need too many new territory mules because it's mainly a sheetmetal update so they can do cooling / airflow projection / modelling / analysis on computer and they've had diesels running around for ages, so most NVH work has already been done with regards to those.

Unless there are suspension component or geometry changes that need to be sorted out "real life" why do they need to build a fleet of mules?

Or would they be more for panel fit / finish testing etc?

Mr_4.0 · 02-05-2009, 11:22 AM

may i simply raise a point?

if we have diesel teritory, thats a lot of I6 motors not being built at engine plant or even australia, which they have kept open longer than originally planeed. we would not biuld diesal ourselfs so X amount of motors being built overseas would would put our own guys out of work. hence no diesel falcon either.

yes there are mules getting around. test track mainly. some in geelong.

Mr_4.0 · 02-05-2009, 11:26 AM

dont hold your breath for a gas terry. unless we get injected gas. then MAYBE

but there is some MAJOR and AGRESSIVE sheet metal changed for 2010.

Chilliman · 02-05-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

What more info would you like that hasn't already been given? The I6 will soldier on, there's a Diesel Territory. Falcon's sheet-metal might undergo some changes. FPV won't have a supercharged V8, it's purely NA with about the same power as they have now. XR8 will get the 270kW V8 version, although not as powerful it will be as quick as, if not quicker, than current XR8, and handle a whole lot better.

To drop 20Kw (and a heap of torque presumably) and maintain performance the new 5.0 would have to be significantly lighter - in the order of 100kg less! I hope that is what you are telling us?

Road_Warrior · 02-05-2009, 12:03 PM

The Coyote has an alloy engine block, and this is the engine that is rumoured to get the gong for the XR8 and FPV's, so yes.

R-Design · 02-05-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

Falc'man said same power, not same performance, just like he said the xr8 will have the 270kw version, 20kws down on the current engine but will be just as quick if not quicker. So the new V8 with about the same power will be much quicker

Fair point XR chief, but I can't imagine a new range of FPV V8's running around with the same old BOSS315 stickers impressing anyone. BOSS351 on the otherhand...

Think it's time they took the game to the General. They need a similar power spike they achieved from T3 to BA GT if they want to shift some product in this market (of course with improved fuel economy, blah, blah).

XR6_190 · 02-05-2009, 02:11 PM

I highly doubt that Ford will go down the sole engine route for the Terriotory, Marin Burela was quoted recently saying that the Territory's main competitors sell 50/50 petrol and diesel, That says to me that they want a piece of that pie, dropping the petrol engine would nullify the purpose of introducing a diesel, that purpose being that they think they can dramatically increase Territory sales with a diesel in the lineup.

Falc'man · 02-05-2009, 02:50 PM

[QUOTE=Boss315]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

FPV won't have a supercharged V8, it's purely NA with about the same power as they have now.

I hope this isn't true. The way Rod Barrett's been running his mouth about the new V8, if performance is similar he might as well start looking for a new job now.

I know, it's a real shame that this bloke keeps promising lots but in the end not much is delivered. There will be no forced inducted FPVs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Youssef - before the I6 was killed, we had Huntsman. With the V6, we had 123. The insiders haven't exactly been forthcoming with the new code name, so I can't help out there.

The current mail on Territory, is that, once the Diesel Territroy arrives, Territory will be Diesel only, as there are too many added complexities in having two engines in Teeritory. Not the best news.

Thanks for clearing that up, Andrew. My apologies to Road_Warrior.

It will be a shame really, alot of the SUVs that offer diesel also have petrol as an option. Will having diesel as the only option cause a media frenzy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

To drop 20Kw (and a heap of torque presumably) and maintain performance the new 5.0 would have to be significantly lighter - in the order of 100kg less! I hope that is what you are telling us?

As Road_Warrior said, yes, it's much lighter. In fact, it's lighter than the old alloy 4.6 Modular.