What do Aussies know of the 427 Cammer??

[Ohio XB]

I was having a conversation with a friend about the 427 SOHC "Cammer" Ford engines from 1964-5. I was wondering what Aussies know about this engine and if any ever made it over there? Also, is there any desire for this engine there, especially since there are a few places making new bits?

Thanks for any insight that you can impart on this.


Steve

[Mr X]

Never made it here.I read somewhere that it was the most powerful Detroit V8 ever built-not sure if thats true.Its an awesome looking thing though.

http://www.supermotors.net/articles/...sue01-a2-1.php

http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/427sohc.html

[SLO AU XR8]

It never officially made it over here, but there was one in a mk1 Cortina drag car. Australian Muscle Car mag did a story on the Cammer IIRC, and also i think there is a guy in western NSW who is making alloy cammer blocks too.....

[Iggypoppin']

Any ford fan worth his salt should be lusting(in vain) for one of these. There's a bloke somewhere in aus who's recreating them but you need some sort of massive income/lotto win to afford one. All I know of them is it's a SOHC mid 60's V8, big cube, 400kw+ ball-tearer, commissioned by Henry Ford II to defeat the chrylser hemi426. Given an unlimited budget, fords design team created the motor affectionatly known as the "cammer", but it was banned before it could be used in racing. Since then it's been a "holy Grail" of ford motors..

[platinumXR]

...only that I want one for my XB... :evil3:

[Iggypoppin']

I tell a lie, it was used once in NASCAR before it was outlawed. Just read the quoted power figures:616hp and 657hp with single 4 barrel and twin 4 barrel carburettors respectively.

[damoose]

Seen a picture of one of these once
the cam chain or belt (cant remember)
must have been a nightmare as it was so bloody long.

[Assassinbm]

I vaguely remember reading somwhere years ago the timing chain was about 6 feet long.......

[Fev]

certainly looks big enough to pull a tank :P. Anyone know which magazine had that article? i've got it around my house somewhere - i remember reading it with my mouth wide open lol

nvm i found scans of it






http://www.supermotors.net/articles/...sue01-a2-1.php
some really good info purely on the engine itself..

[Iggypoppin']

Correct, 6 feet long, it created problems when high revving, and it was hard to tune or get good timing from it. it also had a system of idlers that was pretty complicated and "probably" prone to breaking down.
the motor is based off the FE sideoiler but houses SOHC heads and has the oil journals for the centrifugal cam in the block plugged up and in place is an idler driving one timing chaning and another chain running off the idler driving the cams. I believe the oiling system oils the crank first and the cam and drivetrain second. not sure, i know the FE sideoiler oils lower sections of the engine block before anything else(and there is a topoiler of similar block design too?) but the cammer i dont know if it was changed to facilitate the SOHC heads.

[Polyal]

Is that the same engine thats was put in Bill Bourkes XW?

[fat289]

There's 1 going to be running at the Muscle Car masters in a factory lightweight Galaxy this year in Apendix J
Just under gone a groundup rebuild , last time it raced it was at Sandown before the mods to turn 2 were done - man tyre smoke everywhere
Wagga car

[smciner1]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is that the same engine thats was put in Bill Bourkes XW?

No, that was a regular 428 Cobra Jet.

[XR8 Uterous]

Originally Posted by fat289

There's 1 going to be running at the Muscle Car masters in a factory lightweight Galaxy this year in Apendix J
Just under gone a groundup rebuild , last time it raced it was at Sandown before the mods to turn 2 were done - man tyre smoke everywhere
Wagga car

If its the car I'm hopefully thinking of, its one hell of a car. Bloody loud to!

[Nikked]

there is 3 in Australia, the Bowdens there is one in a 34 hi boy and 3rd is somewhere...?

427 is an impressive motor, its a shame NASCAR killed it. Imagine if it was developed more.

[V8 Man]

Read an article in a magazine about the cammer a few years back, can't remember all the details.
A couple of things I do remember though, Ford built about 30, 2 door fairlanes fitted with them, (along with 'glass fronts) for drag racers. They were called Thunderbolts, and apparently good for 11sec. quarters out of the box.
Ford also built a couple of altered wheel base '65 mustangs and fitted them with cammers to do the rounds of the drags as promo cars.
Ford also had the engine available as a crate motor in the mid 60's (if you knew the right person), for about $3,000 (alot of money back then, you could buy a new Mustang for $2,500).
As far as Aussie cammers go, I know the Pirotta brothers had a chopped Cortina drag car fitted with one, although I haven't seen or heard of it since the mid 80's.
427 Cammer, 7 litres, 700 horses, at 7000RPM.

[Iggypoppin']

The motors where available from ford spare parts for around 2,300-3,000$ which came as a complete crate engine, not sure on transmissions though. The altereds where mustang show/drag cars that I "think" where sold as per NASCAR rules and regs, something to do with the fact that for a car to compete in whatever race, the car or engine package had to have been available(as it was in the racecars) on the street for the public. Can anyone shed more light on that aspect?
As for the engine itself, there where several variants of it, the cammer being the most sought after, but essentially based off the same block as the sideoiler FE, which was a good performer in NASCAR until the hemi 426 stormed in, prompting ford to manufacture the cammer. It's also interesting that the engines real CUI capacity is only 425.1 cubic inches, it was called the 427 as that was the maximum engine size NASCAR allowed.

[yift]

ooopppss i wet my self again

[Charliewool]

I remember one running around Melbourne in a tough 32 or 34 coupe in the very early eighties...
And It WAS a cammer.. trust me!... At the time I had a side oiler with tunnel port heads that was going in a cusso... And I was simply in awe when the thing took off down Epsom Rd... A note like no other!!

[schnoods]

Awesome engine.

Just like the chrysler HEMI, Nascar killed the fun for another good motor...

[Pistol]

Joe Pirotta used to own a 64 cortina with a blown crammer making over 1000 horse power and for many year's this car ran 8's with factory leaf rear spring's it was only a few year's ago they put in a full link rear end raced it once or twice then put it away . allthough i did hear through the traps they sold the car less eng

[Iggypoppin']

They also use/used these and the other FE engines in top fuel racing I think. Not sure if I'm correct, I could be talking about something else.

[Burnout]

They could be brought as a 'crate motor' from a ford dealer as indicated above. They were a true hemispherical head arrangement & were delivered complete along with cast iron headers, and delivered 600HP on Super petrol. This is how ford achieved homoligation for racing.

The engine raced for two years and swept the field and it was then factored out of contention to maintain some competitiveness with GM and Mopar.

The big issue was degreeing the cams due to variable stretch in the six foot long timing chain over the rev range.

This motor along with the DOHC & the 429 Shotgun were fords killer engines of the 1960's.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by V8 Man

Read an article in a magazine about the cammer a few years back, can't remember all the details.
A couple of things I do remember though, Ford built about 30, 2 door fairlanes fitted with them, (along with 'glass fronts) for drag racers. They were called Thunderbolts, and apparently good for 11sec. quarters out of the box.
Ford also built a couple of altered wheel base '65 mustangs and fitted them with cammers to do the rounds of the drags as promo cars.
Ford also had the engine available as a crate motor in the mid 60's (if you knew the right person), for about $3,000 (alot of money back then, you could buy a new Mustang for $2,500).
As far as Aussie cammers go, I know the Pirotta brothers had a chopped Cortina drag car fitted with one, although I haven't seen or heard of it since the mid 80's.
427 Cammer, 7 litres, 700 horses, at 7000RPM.

I thought the Fairlane Thunderbolt was fitted with a normal 427, not a cammer.

[eb2fairmont]

http://www.allford.net.au/

[Ohio XB]

Good to hear this engine is known over there.

I've read a number of sources of info on this and it seems the most popular contention is that the engine never raced in NASCAR. When Chrysler got wind of what Ford had built they complained to NASCAR saying that if the Ford engine was allowed to run they would pull Chrysler products from NASCAR, which at the time were riding a wave of awe due to the dominance of the 426 Hemi. Without the Hemi for the Ford to eat up it would seem like the Cammer eating the rest of the field would be no comparison and not an interesting race.

Bascially after that it was sold as a crate engine for Drag racing.

As for the long chain issues, there were some kinds of guides in specific places along the chain travel that were there solely to control "chain whip".


I had never heard this engine brought up here before and didn't find any topics about it while doing a search on the forum so I didn't know if anyone even knew about it there or if an engine ever even made it to Oz. Nice to hear it's legend has not been bound by the pond. Even cooler that someone there is reproducing them.




Steve

[jakkes]

triple 7's 777! i pretty much read buy everything i find with these things in them










how about the 494 can am engine any info on that one ??

[V8 Man]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I thought the Fairlane Thunderbolt was fitted with a normal 427, not a cammer.

Sorry, you're right, went and looked up another article, apparenty they only built one with a cammer, the rest were all 425 horse, 427's. Still fairly cool though!

[Iggypoppin']

The normal 427 runs a normal pushrod setup, the cammer uses two chains, one from crank to idler, the other chain running off a smaller gear from idler and around to the cams. The blocks where the same so as to keep costs down, but oil journals and other bits and bobs where altered. These are the differences that must be made to turn sideoiling FE into SOHC FE, so no easy task by any stretch of the imagination.

[Iggypoppin']

Just noticed the cammer pics with belt rather than chain setup, and one less idler(right hand cylinder bank) wonder how much work was involved in removing internal chain and idlers etc?