Speed Camera at base of suburban hill - Revenue raising or not?

[Sam_Boss260]

Got a lovely snap last night of my car in the mail.

Bottom of a series of rollacoaster hills. Speed limit is 50, and really, who does 50 oing down hills when you go and down and up down?

Got pinged for 65 in a 50 zone. Fair enough, I would have been oing over 50, but don't think that I was doing 65. And being at the botom ofa hill, I think is a bit cheeky and clearly revenue raising.

Rant off...

[Kryton]

50 is 50 regardless of if there are hills or not.
If you cant control your vehicle, well youve just found out what happens.

[Ben73]

Yeah the cameras are set up to produce as much revenue as possible. I can think of many cameras on a straight hill.

But you never see a camera near one of those black spot signs.
Since the black spots are dangerous bits of roads and cameras are supposed to improve road safety you would think it would be a no brainer.
I guess the government is to stupid to figure it out.

[EDManual]

yep, you should be watching your speedo, and not looking at the road or the edges of the road, or the other cars or pedestrians...

[mcnews]

Of course, it is all a rort.

[sprint347dave]

plastic bag it

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

Got a lovely snap last night of my car in the mail.

Bottom of a series of rollacoaster hills. Speed limit is 50, and really, who does 50 oing down hills when you go and down and up down?

Got pinged for 65 in a 50 zone. Fair enough, I would have been oing over 50, but don't think that I was doing 65. And being at the botom ofa hill, I think is a bit cheeky and clearly revenue raising.

Rant off...

Have your say about it on Saturday.

[grey_esp]

Id be checking this one out. I thought they were not allowed to place a camera on a hill where (now not sure on which gear the car has to be in) the car can pick up speed under its own engine breaking. Ie if its in first gear for example but the hill is steep enough that the car will accellerate anyway, then they cant set up a camera there???

[csv8]

They have the revenue cameras on the downhill section of the Ipswich Motorway, thru Annerley and Moorooka. NEVER on the uphill side.!! and we aren't revenue raising!!!!!!

[Rodge]

Camera positioned at the bottom of a hill = revenue raising, plain and simple.

[MAGPIE]

Yep it is a rort, just like the ones at the end of passing lanes.

[Bent Rod Tuning]

yeah i got nailed going down a steep as hill in Toowong Brisbane. was so furious due to it being purely for revenue raising. funny thing is three more on my work site got done the same morning at the same loction.
haha so they did their homework on where it is harder to control your speed. (from memory they can put a camera in a location with steep hills etc if it is a high accedent area)

[TMC]

Yes, it is revenue raising but it is also the law. It's a legal system not a justice system.

What gets me is school zones. I totally agree with the speed limit in a school zone as kids can run all over the place and crazy mum drivers do the same in their cars, but if you are not familiar to the area, and something for a split second obscures your view of the school zone sign, you only realise you are in a school zone just as you start to leave it. Now these areas would have to be one of the most dangerous places on the road for human life, so WHY do they sometimes put a speed camera in an obscured position to get you after you may have possibly run over a child, and not before. That is revenue raising and it does nothing for human safety, as the damage has potentially already been done.

I think all school zones should have flashing lights, speed zone LED signs, complete marked out sections across the entire road to alert you when your mind can be on other things (and their is a huge amount to have your mind on when driving on WA roads-others who can't drive to save themselves). That would save lives. I wouldn't even care if they put a permanent speed camera on every school zone and took your licence away for speeding through a school zone. Then you would have no excuse for missing the signs etc. That would save lives etc. But no, they'd rather us do something dangerous without realising, and ping us some cash for it. A legal system, not a justice system.

[Scott]

Revenue raising Sam, show em this weekend what you think of it.

It's got nothing to do with safety, if it did, Plod would have stepped out and let you know that you are actually speeding RIGHT NOW.

Davway - annoying troll.

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by Scott

Revenue raising Sam, show em this weekend what you think of it.

It's got nothing to do with safety, if it did, Plod would have stepped out and let you know that you are actually speeding RIGHT NOW.

Davway - annoying troll.

Correct Scott. I was actually shocked when I opened the mail last night. If I was knowingly speeding and saw the camera, then you think...."did they get me?". But having a camera in a suburban street, with no accidents (was like about 600m from home). In fact if they want to make that strecthc of road safe, they should prevent people from parking on both sides of the road at the crest of a hill. Now that is dangerous.

[AWD Chaser]

There is a new averge speed camera trap in Canberra that starts at the top of a hill and ends at the bottom... I was well aware of the speed average zone, but I took my eyes of the speedo for 5 secs then I was already doing 10 over, so I ended up sitting on 10 under the rest of the way down just to average it out...

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

There is a new averge speed camera trap in Canberra that starts at the top of a hill and ends at the bottom... I was well aware of the speed average zone, but I took my eyes of the speedo for 5 secs then I was already doing 10 over, so I ended up sitting on 10 under the rest of the way down just to average it out...

Is that the one from Narrabundah to Woden?

I believe in NSW average speed cameras are only for vehicles over 4.5 tonne, would it be the same in the ACT?!

i know that road, as as if doing 100 or 110 in that 80 zone is ever going to hurt anyone!

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Scott

Davway - annoying troll.

Saying it how it is makes me a troll?
Pull your head in.

[XARATE]

Originally Posted by grey_esp

Id be checking this one out. I thought they were not allowed to place a camera on a hill where (now not sure on which gear the car has to be in) the car can pick up speed under its own engine breaking. Ie if its in first gear for example but the hill is steep enough that the car will accellerate anyway, then they cant set up a camera there???

This is actuall correct, same goes with going down a hill with cruise control on. Any speed gained under the "control" (ie with no driver input) of cruise control while decending down a hill cannot incurr a fine. I know for a fact because i got out of a speeding fine using that reasoning. Its in the law books

[flappist]

Keep it civil guys.

Just because something is law does not automatically make it right or just.

This is a QLD thing and this weekend we who live in QLD have an opportunity to do something about it should we wis to.

Whether of not those who do not live in QLD think that this is a scam or not is irrelevant as they can do what they like in their state without our concent or approval and have no right at all to tell us what to do or think in ours.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is a QLD thing and this weekend we who live in QLD have an opportunity to do something about it should we wis to.

Perhaps better phrased as - this is an Australia-wide thing but Queenslanders will have an opportunity to do something about it this weekend!

Is there something in opposition policy there about this?

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by XARATE

This is actuall correct, same goes with going down a hill with cruise control on. Any speed gained under the "control" (ie with no driver input) of cruise control while decending down a hill cannot incurr a fine. I know for a fact because i got out of a speeding fine using that reasoning. Its in the law books

So how does one contest and prove this?

[Smoke Pursuit]

First I've heard of it in the law books...

Having cruise control set does not mean you can speed regardless...

They are cheeky but what can you do. I have just moved to Carina and see a speed camera in my local area everyday just about, has slowed me down alot!

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Camera positioned at the bottom of a hill = revenue raising, plain and simple.

Speeding = Revenue raising

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Speeding = Revenue raising

So what is the definition of speeding:

Going faster than is safe?

No that would mean you would be fined for going 95 in a 100 zone in monsoonal rain or fog.

Going faster than a magic number on a sign put there by a public servant more interested in their personal career, following instructions and collecting revinue than the safety of the public?

Yep, thats the one.........

[kinksta]

Obviously it is a great place to put one, due to the fact of people going 15kmph over the limit sign posted...

[graham7773]

Flappist, "defonition of speeding"? Going faster than the posted speed limit! And I assume that some of the forum members do not have brakes to control their cars speed going downhill? Certainly seems that way.

[Matty4]

Taken straight from the Victoria Police mobile speed camera Policy and Operations manual.

A site shall not be;
Descending down unsuitable gradients or within 300 metres of the bottom of a gradient or hill UNLESS the site has a significant speed related collision record;
Unsuitable Gradient is defined as a slope that causes a vehicle in top gear (or drive) to increase indicated speed against maximum deceleration (NO BRAKE OR ACCELERATION) from a commencement speed at the top of the slope at the posted limit. This must be determined by the relevant TMU.

Whilst we all agree that here in Vic we have the worst infiltration of these pests in the country, at least their policy "tries" to be a little bit fair about it.
I would be contesting it regardless and using this as part of your defense, placing reasonable doubt as to the validity of the chosen site.
I would also be requesting the data showing the significant speed related crash history for that stretch of road and also the assessment of that stretch by the local TMU (Traffic Management Unit) or your equivalent there in QLD.
Whatever you do, good luck...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by kinksta

Obviously it is a great place to put one, due to the fact of people going 15kmph over the limit sign posted...

There are two very amazing things about speed cameras.

1) There are some that are catching, 2000, 3000 even 5000 people a DAY speeding yet there are no accidents let alone fatalities.
That is ABSOLUTE PROOF that speed does not kill as we KNOW, not suspect, not believe but ACTUALLY KNOW that several thousand people are exceeding the magic number on the sign yet there are no problems, none at all.

2) That there are still people who are so stupid and naive that they actually believe the whole govco propaganda is to do with road safety instead of revinue raising.

Imagine if we used the speed camera methodology in other areas:

We don't need railings on high buildings just "fall cameras" to send fines to people who go too close to the edge but don't fall off.

We don't need barracades next to railway lines or race tracks or airports, just "squish cameras" to send fines to people who walk down the track/strip and don't get splatted.

Actually we don't need a police force at all just "crim cams" that send fines to people who walk out of a shop without buying anything as that is what shop stealers do. Fine victims for being involved in an arguement but not being murdered. It goes on and on.

The biggest problem we have with speed cameras other than the govco scam is the often very vocal minority of people who are terrified by the concept that they may have to make a decision and will fight to the death to retain systems where they just do as they are told as that is the only time they feel safe. You see them even on here. Strong opinions and well rehersed rhetoric yet absolutely paranoid about anyone finding out who they really are or what they actually do.

There is only one way to solve this and we in QLD have the chance to make the first move on Saturday.

Wouldn't it be a shock if the new government completely removed all speed cameras and the road toll stayed the same or even dropped?
Of course the apologists would spin doctor it in the same way the spun the massive increase in road deaths in NT after the (//) was reduced to 130, a blip.

Definitions:
Blip is when the statistics hinder your position.
Trend is when the statistics support you position.

For all Queenslanders, you can make a difference on Saturday, for the rest of you just sit back and see what happens.

Remember every single drop of rain is responsible for the flood......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by graham7773

Flappist, "defonition of speeding"? Going faster than the posted speed limit! And I assume that some of the forum members do not have brakes to control their cars speed going downhill? Certainly seems that way.

Exactly, by your own words speeding has nothing whatsoever to do with road safety.