New Commodre will have battery in boot!

Jake F6 · 01-02-2006, 08:32 PM

I won't give up my source, but apparently Holden stuffed up the
engine bay design, and the battery dosn't fit!!! So instead of costly
redesign they have opted for the easy way out - to shift the battery
to the boot!!! This will be rectified on the subsequent Commodore.

PS. Apparently the new commodore looks f_ckin' awesome....

b2tf · 01-02-2006, 08:42 PM

I don't buy it.

bprint xr8 · 01-02-2006, 08:44 PM

If this is correct it must have been a fair stuff up as you would think that it would be easy for the battery manufactures to make a slightly narrower/shorter battery if required. Will also be interesting to see how it handles the voltage drop once there is some age on the vehicle, given that the electonics load I assume will be more than now

XR6HP · 01-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I don't buy it.

Don't you mean "won't" buy it??? :hihi:

gmhdriver · 01-02-2006, 08:48 PM

If the battery is going into the boot then I think they would be putting it there deliberately, I highly doubt that it's due to a design mistake.

It sounds like a good thing... This is one of the first things that people do when modifying their cars.

Psycho Chicken · 01-02-2006, 08:49 PM

mmmm yes voltage drop is a wonderful thing. As is less boot space. And extra money in wiring.

FPV · 01-02-2006, 09:04 PM

I remember reading the exact same thing on this forum or another ford forum. This sort of stuff is not unheard of and im pretty sure some manufacturers have shifted the battery to the back. Cant think of any cars at the moment though.

zetec · 01-02-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV

I remember reading the exact same thing on this forum or another ford forum. This sort of stuff is not unheard of and im pretty sure some manufacturers have shifted the battery to the back. Cant think of any cars at the moment though.

Volvo XC70 Wagon has a boot battery. It's a ИИИИИ to remove too.

FPV · 01-02-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetec

Volvo XC70 Wagon has a boot battery. It's a ИИИИИ to remove too.

There we go, theres one example. Is the battery heavy enough to shift the weight distribution slightly? Just asking, im no engineer or anything. I thought i might have read something like that before.

HSE2 · 01-02-2006, 09:27 PM

Yes some euro cars have the battery in the rear compartment, but.......

The rear VE boot deck doesn't look too big to me. If there is a question over VE it has to be rear boot access. One would assume that Holden have finally dragged the Commodore into the last century and fitted slit fold rear seats and hinges that don’t infringe on the load space, but that opening looks narrow to me.

And yes I fear that Holden haven't given us a free kick with the appearance of the new model. That and a sizeable head start is going to be tough going for Ford once again.

red_hotxr6 · 01-02-2006, 09:31 PM

Oh dear the poor things, whatever next...

jabba · 01-02-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV

There we go, theres one example. Is the battery heavy enough to shift the weight distribution slightly? Just asking, im no engineer or anything. I thought i might have read something like that before.

YES, absolutly, And I certaily believe that ford should adopt the idea also... How much does a battery weigh, 10kg ??. By shifting 10kg of weight from the front to the back, you have effectly shifted 20kg over the rear wheels.

FPV · 01-02-2006, 09:36 PM

Motor have commented on gas struts i think for the boot, but then again Ford had that in the AU days. Who knows Holden might go down the mitsubishi path and claim that the extra rigidity of having bracing in the back was more appropriate compared to a split fold seat. Right now the VE doesnt seem to be much of a shock, sure it will be a few steps ahead of the VZ series, but the BA was ahead of the VZ, and the BF is an even more vast step ahead of the VZ.

tbearz · 01-02-2006, 09:51 PM

um Mickey T said that they had moved the battery to the boot but then the light hit where the sun dont shine and it was 'made to fit' back into bonnet so i think ur source is old or mickey t, motor editor is talking out of his ***...

Ghiadude · 01-02-2006, 09:59 PM

nissan skylines have there battery in the boot ....

BJ · 01-02-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACK XR6-VCT

I won't give up my source, but apparently Holden stuffed up the
engine bay design, and the battery dosn't fit!!! So instead of costly
redesign they have opted for the easy way out - to shift the battery
to the boot!!! This will be rectified on the subsequent Commodore.

PS. Apparently the new commodore looks f_ckin' awesome....

Bull S*&T. I have a friend who work's in the design department and that's the first he's heard of it.

**M&Ms** · 01-02-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx3dude

nissan skylines have there battery in the boot ....

So does a 1996 BMW 328

FPV · 01-02-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

YES, absolutly, And I certaily believe that ford should adopt the idea also... How much does a battery weigh, 10kg ??. By shifting 10kg of weight from the front to the back, you have effectly shifted 20kg over the rear wheels.

Yeh lol whoops, only thought through it after i sent it. And since the commodore will weigh 1600+kg it wouldnt do much at all. Just wondering how much the battery's weigh thats all.

In the motor mag they say the VE has its engine mounted closer towards the firewall or so, so weight distribution has got to count for something in the VE program. Just was thinking every kilo counts in weight, and distributing the rest of the weight helps in handling.

JPFS1 · 01-02-2006, 11:55 PM

I doubt it but i will find out. I have some good sources ;)

On the styling, VE looks outdated already compared to the "all new" XR's... ;p

flappist · 02-02-2006, 12:56 AM

Battery in the boot is good for powering doof doofs but the voltage drop and I²R losses during start would be a huge problem. Any weight saving would be defeated by the 400kg of copper used to run to the starter motor.
There are a number of vehicles that have this design but they all have at least two things in common.

1) They are small compared to a commy/falc.
2) They don't have a high compression 6 litre V8 engine to turn over.

Teki04 · 02-02-2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

They don't have a high compression 6 litre V8 engine to turn over.

Maybe the problem was only with one engine?

Also... the weight distribution does make sense. Think of how much more lighter the next Falcon should be. I'm sure after everyone crying it was too heavy, Holden have seen this and realised weight is an important factor to the way a car handles.

Oh, another point - Some of you explain how the boot space may be reduced. Have any of you taken notice to the new Focus Sedan? Has 510L of space in the boot. The BF has 504L. So, don't go saying that just because the Battery is there, it will have alot less boot space. If Ford managed in a 40cm smaller car to get a bigger boot, then I'm sure Holden could make a large boot with a battery.

Psycho Chicken · 02-02-2006, 01:56 AM

I'm sure moving 10 kilos around is not going to make the world of difference to handling in a family sedan. Seriously, how many of you notice a change in handling with 10 litres less fuel in the tank?

**Full Noise** · 02-02-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I'm sure moving 10 kilos around is not going to make the world of difference to handling in a family sedan. Seriously, how many of you notice a change in handling with 10 litres less fuel in the tank?

I also doubt that moving 10 kilos would make any difference. How do they compensate for a 120 kilogram lard *** that sits in the drivers seat?

Cheers, Danny

MAFIA · 02-02-2006, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACK XR6-VCT

I won't give up my source, but apparently Holden stuffed up the
engine bay design, and the battery dosn't fit!!! So instead of costly
redesign they have opted for the easy way out - to shift the battery
to the boot!!! This will be rectified on the subsequent Commodore.

PS. Apparently the new commodore looks f_ckin' awesome....

I think this is only for V8 models. The new commowhore are a smaller car now so it says.

Apparently the new commowhore looks F*@k ugly. Have you seen it. Holden should be ashame of thenselve for not coming up with fresh idea when desisning new cars. The front is somewhere between an astra and a BA falcon together while the back is Hyundai and Misti 350 together. If ya ask me the new commowhore not only looks like a whore but it very transexual.

Shame Holden Shame

HSE2 · 02-02-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

I doubt it but i will find out. I have some good sources ;)

On the styling, VE looks outdated already compared to the "all new" XR's... ;p

One does get the impression VE will look very nice but at the same time safe and a continuation of the shape that has served them well.

Does any of your sources suggest Ford have a reasonable handle on what challenges VE will provide? Do they give the impression that they have the surprises in the package sussed? Or could we be faced with another blind side!

**ebxr8240** · 02-02-2006, 10:21 AM

Battery in boot is no big deal..In some cases the cable to starter motor won't be much longer...

**Polyal** · 02-02-2006, 10:30 AM

Meh I dont believe it. You dont totally redesign car and "forget" about the battery. The electrical system guys would have a sook will before it would even be confirmed.

Oh BTW the BMW X5 has the battery in the boot aswell...and is a right bitach to get to.

JPFS1 · 02-02-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

One does get the impression VE will look very nice but at the same time safe and a continuation of the shape that has served them well.

Does any of your sources suggest Ford have a reasonable handle on what challenges VE will provide? Do they give the impression that they have the surprises in the package sussed? Or could we be faced with another blind side!

Hi Ian

I believe they do. They are confident that the Ford product will be right up there and they will also have an advantage to make any necessary changes (small ones anyway) because of the timing difference. It's interesting to note that the new falc has recently been restyled as a change of direction was wanted. I am told it is a great looking car and one that will get a lot of people excited.

The unfortunate thing for Ford AUS, because of the timing cycle difference, is that the new falcon program was up on the table for approval amonst the recent GM/Ford cuts and the general pull back in the large car segment, so yes, there have been cuts to the new falcon program as a result of the declining economy and demand. On the other hand, the VE development cycle started a quite a while earlier and targeted a global market. I've seen the VE architecture and its pretty advanced and some materials are being used that Ford haven't got their hands on yet. This hasn't played out as good as expected for the same reasons that have affected ford.

Driveline wise, i can't really comment other than these new models will be the last of the drivelines as we know them. Beyond these model cycles, we can expect some rather major changes.

These cars will be fundamentally very similar andthey will be competitive on a global level when it comes to safety.

I'll try and get more specifics out of them regarding engine specs - but that's a hard nut to crack.

Rev28K · 02-02-2006, 11:23 AM

See how many competition cars have their batteries in the boot. A lot of people aim for 50/50 static weight distribution. The battery is heavy (although newer models are lighter) and relatively portable so that you can put it where you want to. Some models (Porsche 911 GT3RS) have specific light weight smaller batteries. As long as it's in a vented box it should be okay. I know that my front heavy FWD (60/40 front rear) would benefit from any weight that I could shave of the front and add to the rear. Little 0.5% gains aren’t much but if you make 10 of them they add up and you get a 5% gain.

Packaging – it is getting better plastic tanks going under seats in some cars like the Honda Jazz and some people movers (and worse with lack of space for spare wheels, just a puncture kit). If GM are using this platform in America then do you think they would have the fuel tank ahead of the rear axle line in the initial design (rather than have to do a last minute cludge job like the Monaro). The fuel tank ahead of the rear axle line again helps handling

P.S. I know of a guy that spent half an hour on a cold/wet night trying to find a battery in the front of his 80’s BMW when he was trying to jump start a car. Expect to hear more stories like this if the battery goes in the boot.

desGT · 02-02-2006, 11:23 AM

Porsche place the battery in the back of the 924, 944, 968 and the almighty 928. I am sure if there were concerns about it being there, they would not have done it.